Opening Ceremony is a waste of time

[damngrumpy]

So we put on a ceremony proclaiming to be something we are not. When these games are over we
will go back to ignoring the north like we always do. The opening was boring, just like the closing
will be. Instead of dousing the flame we should have a sound track of a toilet flushing. It will be
the real symbol of our future. We wasted money that could have been spent on the improvements
we really need in this province. We wasted money on a number of athletes that have let us down in
many cases. The other thing to remember is our province financially will be flushed down the drain
for the next two or three decades to pay for this at the expense of our young people.
How pathetic we have become waving our flags and celebrating the mountain of debt the Liberals have led us into. Wait till we sober up and find out that the belt we are going to tighten is really a
noose. Lets see who's cheering on March second when the aftermath of the mess comes into the
House at the legislature.

[LoneWolf_53]

Be right back gotta run out and get a crying towel.

[Queen K]

:waaaaaaa:

Be right back gotta run out and get a crying towel.

Is that because you finally saw the truth of what Damngrumpy, CatEyes, Grumpydigger, Steven Lloyd, Old Bush-man, myself and many others have been saying this whole time?


Better get a bathtowel. You'll need it.

[coffeeFreak]

Politically incorrect time

Aka speaking honestly

The reason the natives were so heavily represented at the games is because if they didn't get their payoff/kickback, they would have protested the games too. After all, it is on "their" land.

I call BULL$#!%

They call themselves "First Nations"

Well, us Whiteys are "First Conquerers" It's our country now.

Wow...I'm completely against the Olympics but I can't believe your rant Old Bushman! If you think about why First Nations were USED in the Olympics it was basically a marketing scheme by VANOC. Europeans and Asians have a love affair with the old and hollywood version of "Indian". In some European countries they even have "Indian" clubs where they dress up and pretend. So I'm sorry but the exploitation of our Aboriginal people in the winter olympics was done purely for financial gains...Some of us were used/duped and exploited once again but instead of taking the land this time the "White conquerers" (Campbell/VANOC/IOC) appropriated our culture and art!

[Homeownertoo]

While you are correct about the symbolism, Coffeefreak, I strongly suspect Bush is right about why Indians and their cultures were given such a high profile. The potential for native disruption of and/or non-cooperation with the games was a strong concern and potential disaster that had to be averted (bought off) at all cost. We'll never know the real bill for that endeavor.

Actually, I think this thread should be relabeled 'Owelympics are a waste of time'. There is no longer any need for such an event in the sporting world. Most real sports have plenty of events at the international level in which to showcase their better talents, events that don't require a billion dollars worth of security to stage them and which don't turn into political circuses that benefit the elites and fleece the taxpayer. And without the artificial support of the Owelympics for such oddities as biathlon, which you never hear of from one owelympics to the next, would allow them to find their natural level of support.

The best outcome for the 2010 Owelympics would have been if it were a complete disaster (financially, weatherwise, logistically, etc.).That could have woken up other nations and their taxpayers to the monumental mess they have become, and perhaps begun a Stop the Owelympics movement.

[animal lover1]

I enjoyed the irony of the native protesters outside BC Place, while inside the entire ceremonies were used to "honor" our native heritage.

4 chiefs receiving accolades inside, while the same bands protest the theft of land outside. Typical reverse bigotry hypocrisy.

[Homeownertoo]

I enjoyed the irony of the native protesters outside BC Place, while inside the entire ceremonies were used to "honor" our native heritage.

4 chiefs receiving accolades inside, while the same bands protest the theft of land outside. Typical reverse bigotry hypocrisy.

Actually, it's not hypocrisy, though I understand your reaction. The ones outside, the radicals, are complaining that their 'elders' were bought off too cheaply. They demand the full-meal deal (land, resources, money), and ceremonies to honour the native heritage fall somewhat short of that.

[LoneWolf_53]

:waaaaaaa:

Be right back gotta run out and get a crying towel.

Is that because you finally saw the truth of what Damngrumpy, CatEyes, Grumpydigger, Steven Lloyd, Old Bush-man, myself and many others have been saying this whole time?


Better get a bathtowel. You'll need it.

No it's not.

As a matter of fact in all seriousness I happened to be listening to KISS FM up in Vernon while working today and some fellow (I wish I remembered the name but he was an economist) put this whole negative aspect of the Olympics in a way that I totally agree with.

He said many of those in opposition just for example keep tossing around the 6 billion dollar number to support their argument regarding the cost of the Olympics.

Where is this number coming from?

I completely agreed with him when he said that some projects that the whiners attribute to the Olympics were already slated to be done regardless and for a project such as the sea to sky highway to be solely viewed as a cost associated with the Olympics when it will benefit generations to come for many years is ridiculous.

He also said (and rightly so) that none of those complaining are giving any regard to the fact that the Olympics are generating revenue and have brought in almost 2 billion already with more to come.

As a matter of fact later in the day on the news cast one of the stories was how BC is expected to come out of recession far quicker than other places with a projected improvement of 4% this coming year and 700 million of that directly attributable to the Olympics.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's getting a little old seeing the same few *bleep* and whine about the Olympics yet there seems to be no credit given to the many positive things that are going on in the province.

I guess it's just easier to complain than it is to give credit and even easier yet when all you're doing is parroting some arbitrary numbers tossed about with no hard facts to support them.

We are in a recession I admit but let's not forget that some projects the wheels were already put in motion before it hit and it's always easier to use hindsight for complaining.

We've gotten quite a lot of infrastructure improvements, money channeled toward health care with major hospital expansions, and a lot of stuff I'm not even up to speed on so let's just use a bit of common sense when complaining as I'd be willing to bet none of you could do any better.

Face it society is always going to have the poor, the homeless, the lazy, the drug addict, etc.

Sometimes it might just be nice to sit back and be thankful for what you do have rather than obsessing on what you don't.

Though I'm not saying it will be the case I'm just sort of thinking that there will really be some folks with egg on their face if this whole Olympic venture actually turns a profit and winds up being the big boost to our BC economy that it was hoped to be.

[coffeeFreak]

I enjoyed the irony of the native protesters outside BC Place, while inside the entire ceremonies were used to "honor" our native heritage.

4 chiefs receiving accolades inside, while the same bands protest the theft of land outside. Typical reverse bigotry hypocrisy.

Actually, it's not hypocrisy, though I understand your reaction. The ones outside, the radicals, are complaining that their 'elders' were bought off too cheaply. They demand the full-meal deal (land, resources, money), and ceremonies to honour the native heritage fall somewhat short of that.

Not true...These four chiefs from, Lil'wat, Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh, acted on behalf of ALL Aboriginal people in Canada which is ludicrous when you realize there are many, many groups including Métis and Inuit. The protesters outside were not necessarily ALL radicals either. They/We resent four coastal groups acting as spokespersons for the rest of us in BC let alone Canada! Here are a few pieces of information to maybe help bring some awareness to some of the problems and issues. When you consider some of these issues maybe you will realize that although landclaims are a large part of the issues, the social ramifications of many of these acts are very much part of the concerns some of these "radicals" are taking a stand for. (Sorry this post is so long, and although off topic it addresses some of the discussion posts.)

“British Columbia is home to 198 First Nations, about one third of all First Nations in Canada. The First Nations of BC have rich and varied cultures, histories and traditions. BC has the greatest diversity of Aboriginal cultures in Canada. For example, seven of Canada's 11 unique language families are located exclusively in BC - more than 60% of the country's First Nations languages”. http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/ai/scr/bc/fnbc/index-eng.asp

"Most BC First Nations did not sign treaties in the past, making modern treaty negotiations a major undertaking. While treaties were negotiated throughout Canada...[into the] early twentieth century, this was not the case in...British Columbia. Contrary to international and British law (as well as Dominion Indian policy), the government of British Columbia took possession of most of its lands without entering into treaties with the owners of the lands. This was in sharp contrast with how colonial settlement proceeded in the rest of Canada.
[url]Law Connection, http://lawconnection.ca/index.php?q=con ... ckgrounder[/url] "In 1982 The Canada Constitution Act recognizes and affirms existing aboriginal and treaty rights.” http://cariboolinks.com/ctc/history.html
“In 1927 Aboriginal people are prohibited from raising money or retaining a lawyer for the purpose of pursuing land claims...."(Page 6)
https://secure.interiorhealth.ca/uploadedFiles/Information/Health_Service_Planning/Appendices_IHAboriginalHealthPlan2002-2006.pdf

"It wasn't until 1960 that First Nations people were allowed to vote without having to give up their treaty and status rights."
http://www.fraserbasin.bc.ca/publications/documents/Bridges_Between_Nations.pdf

RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS: “In 1920, under Scott's direction, it became mandatory for all native children between the ages of seven and fifteen to attend one of Canada's Residential Schools. I want to get rid of the Indian problem. I do not think as a matter of fact, that the country ought to continuously protect a class of people who are able to stand alone… Our objective is to continue until there is not a single Indian in Canada that has not been absorbed into the body politic and there is no Indian question, and no Indian Department, that is the whole object of this Bill. Dr. Duncan Campbell Scott [was] head of the Department of Indian Affairs from 1913 to 1932.” http://www.danielnpaul.com/IndianResidentialSchools.html "Children were forcibly taken from their families by priests, Indian agents and police officers. In 1996 the last school closes. Children suffered serious physical, sexual, and mental abuse. (Approx. 80,000 survivors of the residential schools are still alive.)"
http://www.afn.ca/residentialschools/history.html

The 1960s Scoop – The Stolen Generation: “between the years of 1960 and the mid 1980’s…children were literally scooped from their homes…without the knowledge or consent of families and bands…"
http://www.originscanada.org/the-stolen-generation/ “Within ten years [1955-1964]the number of Native children in B.C.’s child welfare system had jumped from almost zero to more than one third”
http://www.afn.ca/article.asp?id=3324

"According to Canadian government statistics, young Indigenous women in Canada are at least five times more likely than all other women to die as a result of violence. Many factors contribute to this violence, including a long history of discrimination and impoverishment, as well as the persistent failure of many police forces to respond quickly and effectively when Indigenous women are reported missing.
http://www.amnesty.ca/take_action/actions/canada_stolen_sisters_2009.php

[Liberty and Truth]

Though I'm not saying it will be the case I'm just sort of thinking that there will really be some folks with egg on their face if this whole Olympic venture actually turns a profit and winds up being the big boost to our BC economy that it was hoped to be.

Great post - I've lived in various parts of the world, and various other parts of Canada even, and I have to say, no where is it such a badge of honour to be poor and homeless than in BC. Other places people are actually given a bit of public pressure to perhaps get a job, get off the streets etc as people get the message from the rest of society that their participation in society should be a bit more than standing on the street and asking for spare change all day. Here - if you even suggest people get a job you'll have 20 people in your face telling you off about how insensitive you are and outraged about how you are affecting the homeless person's self esteem. In no other place have I seen such an awareness for people's "right" to be homeless and such large crying towels being unveiled every time money gets spent on something other than "the poor" - whatever that definition is as it seems to change every other day to suit whatever activist is doing the shouting. It just amazes me how preoccupied everyone here is with such things, to the point of obsessive compulsive disorder. Just watch the outraged nutter responses to this post and you'll see what I mean. If you are not in a constant state of guilt and outrage about poor people then in some people's minds you aren't a truly British Columbian, according to the posts on this forum anyway. Our provincial symbol should be a guy standing on a street corner with a hat in his hand and a guy behind him with a bull horn protesting.

[Homeownertoo]

While I appreciate your effort and sincerity in posting the above information, there is nothing there I have not read many times before, and you should remember it is a mix of fact and opinion. But the point is, what does this have to do with the Owelympics? Nothing. It was a rip-off of the Owelympics for unrelated political purposes -- though I suppose that is becoming an Owelymic event in itself, with countless participants.

[Al Czervic]

Though I'm not saying it will be the case I'm just sort of thinking that there will really be some folks with egg on their face if this whole Olympic venture actually turns a profit and winds up being the big boost to our BC economy that it was hoped to be.

You mean people like Cateye's who’s hysteria over the "90 Million payment to Fortress and the Olympics will be cancelled on Feb. 19th crapola” that turned out to be bogus and false ?

[sourdough]

Great post - I've lived in various parts of the world, and various other parts of Canada even, and I have to say, no where is it such a badge of honour to be poor and homeless than in BC. Other places people are actually given a bit of public pressure to perhaps get a job, get off the streets etc as people get the message from the rest of society that their participation in society should be a bit more than standing on the street and asking for spare change all day. Here - if you even suggest people get a job you'll have 20 people in your face telling you off about how insensitive you are and outraged about how you are affecting the homeless person's self esteem. In no other place have I seen such an awareness for people's "right" to be homeless and such large crying towels being unveiled every time money gets spent on something other than "the poor" - whatever that definition is as it seems to change every other day to suit whatever activist is doing the shouting. It just amazes me how preoccupied everyone here is with such things, to the point of obsessive compulsive disorder. Just watch the outraged nutter responses to this post and you'll see what I mean. If you are not in a constant state of guilt and outrage about poor people then in some people's minds you aren't a truly British Columbian, according to the posts on this forum anyway. Our provincial symbol should be a guy standing on a street corner with a hat in his hand and a guy behind him with a bull horn protesting.

Comments like the one above show how people blind the issue of poverty or "the poor" with rhetoric that is based on classist attitudes and a sense of self-entitlement that they despise "the poor" for having themselves. The comment above states no facts, merely rhetoric and opinion that is constructed to be taken as "truth" and "fact". Somehow in BC people who decry "the poor" seem to think that it's only homeless people who are "lazy and don't want jobs" who are poor and complain about being so. Well shame on them right? The poster above doesn't seem to know what "the poor" means but backs up his definition with more rhetoric about shouting protesters.

FACT: BC has had the highest rate of child poverty in Canada for more than six years.

FACT: BC has the highest rate of WORKING POOR. Yes, there are even people who work hard at various jobs yet still live below the poverty line. This must be their fault right for not wanting it hard enough?

FACT: BC has the highest rate of overall poverty hovering around 20%! That's almost a quarter of the province living in poverty, and the number is bound to increase. This is not because of personal effort or laziness, but structural problems created and perpetuated by government and the ignorant attitude of many British Columbians who think all those in poverty are homeless and lazy.

The homeless of this province are actually a small percentage of those who live in poverty. They are just the most visible, and therefore the easiest target for people's fears and ignorance.

[Liberty and Truth]

Great post - I've lived in various parts of the world, and various other parts of Canada even, and I have to say, no where is it such a badge of honour to be poor and homeless than in BC. Other places people are actually given a bit of public pressure to perhaps get a job, get off the streets etc as people get the message from the rest of society that their participation in society should be a bit more than standing on the street and asking for spare change all day. Here - if you even suggest people get a job you'll have 20 people in your face telling you off about how insensitive you are and outraged about how you are affecting the homeless person's self esteem. In no other place have I seen such an awareness for people's "right" to be homeless and such large crying towels being unveiled every time money gets spent on something other than "the poor" - whatever that definition is as it seems to change every other day to suit whatever activist is doing the shouting. It just amazes me how preoccupied everyone here is with such things, to the point of obsessive compulsive disorder. Just watch the outraged nutter responses to this post and you'll see what I mean. If you are not in a constant state of guilt and outrage about poor people then in some people's minds you aren't a truly British Columbian, according to the posts on this forum anyway. Our provincial symbol should be a guy standing on a street corner with a hat in his hand and a guy behind him with a bull horn protesting.

Comments like the one above show how people blind the issue of poverty or "the poor" with rhetoric that is based on classist attitudes and a sense of self-entitlement that they despise "the poor" for having themselves. The comment above states no facts, merely rhetoric and opinion that is constructed to be taken as "truth" and "fact". Somehow in BC people who decry "the poor" seem to think that it's only homeless people who are "lazy and don't want jobs" who are poor and complain about being so. Well shame on them right? The poster above doesn't seem to know what "the poor" means but backs up his definition with more rhetoric about shouting protesters.

FACT: BC has had the highest rate of child poverty in Canada for more than six years.

FACT: BC has the highest rate of WORKING POOR. Yes, there are even people who work hard at various jobs yet still live below the poverty line. This must be their fault right for not wanting it hard enough?

FACT: BC has the highest rate of overall poverty hovering around 20%! That's almost a quarter of the province living in poverty, and the number is bound to increase. This is not because of personal effort or laziness, but structural problems created and perpetuated by government and the ignorant attitude of many British Columbians who think all those in poverty are homeless and lazy.

The homeless of this province are actually a small percentage of those who live in poverty. They are just the most visible, and therefore the easiest target for people's fears and ignorance.

Thank you for proving my point - this is EXACTLY what I expected as a response - some indignant "You don't understand" commentary and then a bunch of statistics with no links to anything to back them up. 20%? Where do you get that from? That is not a fact. And here we go again with the useless comment about "the poverty line" - which is just some arbitrary line that is determined by people with activist agendas.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/12/08/wher ... d-poverty/

That eye-popping one-quarter figure from 1989 was the number of children living in families with less than one-half the median income before tax. The somewhat more subdued 9.5 per cent figure for 2007, down from 11.9 per cent in 1989, was based on yet another measure, Statistics Canada’s Low Income Cut-off (LICO). LICO doesn’t measure poverty, and it doesn’t pretend to: indeed, the agency takes every opportunity to state explicitly that LICO is not a poverty line, and shouldn’t be used as such.

The LICO can't be used as a "poverty line" and saying it is a poverty line is just outright lying. I am so tired of statistics being manipulated by activists to further their agendas, and also tired of constant guilt being thrust at me by self-important nutters who think they are better than me because they "care" so much. I do care, and I do give of my money and time to help society, but I also think people need to be given some motivation as well as help. Activists constantly crying all the time just makes people tune out and turn off. How about quoting some real statistics and giving links to support them rather than just pulling numbers out of your butt? That would be a good start to getting more people on board the cause of ending poverty forever.

[steven lloyd]

... I have to say, no where is it such a badge of honour to be poor and homeless than in BC.

Wow ! A badge of honour yet.

Other places people are actually given a bit of public pressure to perhaps get a job, get off the streets etc as people get the message from the rest of society that their participation in society should be a bit more than standing on the street and asking for spare change all day. Here - if you even suggest people get a job you'll have 20 people in your face telling you off about how insensitive you are and outraged about how you are affecting the homeless person's self esteem.

Yup, I can see you get it. Totally nailed it dude.