Baseless Claims

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Glacier
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Baseless Claims

Post by Glacier »

A baseless claim is a statement that is made out to be factual, but lacks any evidential base. These off-topic assertions can sidetrack a productive discussion, so a thread dedicated to listing and clarifying such statements is in order.

I'll start us off with a few common baseless claims we find here on Castanet:

    1) Religion causes (or is responsible for) the majority of wars.
    2) McDonald's gets it's hamburger meat from a company called "100% Beef".
    3) President Obama was not born in the U.S.
    4) Boycotting gas stations will help reduce the price at the pump.

Feel free to add to the list.
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shrory
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by shrory »

I believe that if we all boycotted one particular gasoline outlet, IE: Shell, for a short period, they would soon lower the price to entice the customers back again.

However, trying to encourage/organize this in Kelowna would prove to be very difficult.
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Captain Awesome
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by Captain Awesome »

"Raising minimum wages helps people to stay above the water" is a myth too.
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grammafreddy
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by grammafreddy »

Fiscally responsible government has no basis in fact, either - IMO, of course.
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xjeepguy
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by xjeepguy »

shrory wrote: However, trying to encourage/organize this in Kelowna would prove to be very difficult.


Trying to do that anywhere is difficult . I find people love to talk about doing things but in actual fact 98% of us are just to lazy to do it . Complaining makes us feel better though.
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Glacier
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by Glacier »

shrory wrote:I believe that..

Believing something to be true does not make it true.

And while we are talking about beliefs, I believe that people often think baseless claims are true because they want them to be true. Am I close?

As for the gas boycott, even If everyone in Kelowna boycotted Petro-Canada, it would do nothing to reduce the price because the supplier of these Petro-Canada stations would simply just sell this gas to other stations instead (as they already commonly do). In other words, a boycott does not reduce the demand for gasoline - it merely shifts the name brand attached to the sale.

The only way to reduce the price of gasoline is to buy less gas. Period.
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xjeepguy
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by xjeepguy »

Glacier wrote:And while we are talking about beliefs, I believe that people often think baseless claims are true because they want them to be true. Am I close?


Yes , but not all people . I think the more educated you are the less likely that is going to be true .
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by NAB »

"The only way to reduce the price of gasoline is to buy less gas" - baseless claim? Urban myth?

((I would have thought the opposite - not that under the current world order there is really anything Canadian (and particularly BC) consumers can realistically do at all to influence the price of gasoline - other than elect provincial governments who would tax it less and more uniformly province/nation wide, work to nationalize related resources, ...and fight global industry monopoly / oligopoly / and investor speculation in (and manipulation of) commodity markets.))

Edit to add: It is my view that the tax regimen in the Greater Vancouver area, along with Chevron, that generally dictates what gas prices will be in this province at any point in time.

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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by I Think »

Glace, I challenge you to show factually that most wars were NOT caused by religious differences. I realize that you will have to define 'war' and 'religion' to make your case. I also realize that you will be going back many many generations, and hope that you will avoid regarding "biblical" records as fact.
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Glacier
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by Glacier »

First of all, it should be noted that a baseless claim is not necessarily false; a claim is "baseless" because it is a statement of opinion without evidence to verify its authenticity that is passed off as fact.

Second, I'm not sure why I should have to prove anything since negative evidence for A is not positive evidence for B, but it would make an interesting study.

You are absolutely right about the complexity involved with trying to tackle the question. In addition to the questions you raise, you would also have to take into account the percentage of the world's population that is religious throughout the ages. Sure, wars have been motivated by religion, but there are many examples of wars caused by people motivated in part to suppress religion.



ETA:

I just asked Google this question and one of the first searches that popped up makes this claim:

Yes, "Christians" have committed atrocities against other religious and non-religious people. However, atheists have committed far more atrocities than all religious groups combined. Even so, the key factor in these atrocities has been totalitarian power, rather than religion, which has resulted in these hundreds of millions of murders.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... ities.html

I'm off to bed, so I don't have the time right now to scrutinize their claim, but my view on this matter remains that ideology (irrespective of religious views) is the main cause of war.
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grammafreddy
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by grammafreddy »

NAB wrote:
Edit to add: It is my view that the tax regimen in the Greater Vancouver area, along with Chevron, that generally dictates what gas prices will be in this province at any point in time.

Nab


Why just Chevron?
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steven lloyd
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by steven lloyd »

Glacier wrote: Sure, wars have been motivated by religion, but there are many examples of wars caused by people motivated in part to suppress religion.

Yes, "Christians" have committed atrocities against other religious and non-religious people. However, atheists have committed far more atrocities than all religious groups combined. Even so, the key factor in these atrocities has been totalitarian power, rather than religion, which has resulted in these hundreds of millions of murders.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... ities.html


I would suggest wars are more often caused by fighting for liberty and freedom, control of own resources, economic and political self-determination or the opposite – fighting to take over control of other’s resources and impose or acquire political and economic control. Religion (and/or ideology) is sometimes used to justify war or to recruit the people who fight in war. For example, it can be argued that the Crusades were more about economic expansion (certainly colonization was, with assistance with funding from the Church - which had its own agenda), and the conflict in Ireland more of a fight for economic and political self-determination (two conflicts where religion has been cited as a source). It can also be noted that even in cases where religion is used in recruitment, the pool from which fighters are drawn are sometimes politically and economically disenfranchised (eg. suicide bombers). This is not an absolute truism but religion does make a good scapegoat.
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by I Think »

The list of religious wars is long and a sad testament to humanity. Recently Serb/Croat, Muslim Jihad, Germanys war on the Jews, and lots of others. Being on the road, my wifi time is too short to list many of the ones out there.
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steven lloyd
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by steven lloyd »

Perhaps when you do have the time you might pause and give some more careful consideration to the ideas posted by others, and maybe do some additional research on your own. I found a few links that you might start with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_W ... dependence

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... roatia.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... -hist4.htm


While there is some reason to suggest religion played a role in the conflict, it is pretty clear economic and political self-determination was a more prominent factor which is little surprise.

Trying to suggest Hitler’s Jewish agenda had anything to do with religion is in particular a real stretch:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_did_Hitle ... e_the_Jews
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Re: Baseless Claims

Post by I Think »

Other baseless claims that should be on Glace's list,
There is/are a god(s)
Abortion is sinful.
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