What's with "Liberals" these days?

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NAB
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What's with "Liberals" these days?

Post by NAB »

Looking across the country, "Liberals" seem to be in trouble just about everywhere, both federally and provincially.

- On the federal scene, the "Liberals" have become a progressive bad joke under Martin, Dion, and Iggy.

- Nova Scotia turfed their PC's and replaced them with an NDP Government rather than Liberals.

- The Liberal government of PEI face an election before long and the possibility of getting turfed in favour of the Conservatives.

- The Liberal government in Quebec is rife with charges of corruption and today faces a non-confidence motion that has at least a chance of bringing it down. Even if it survives it has little chance of winning another election under Charest.

- The Liberal Government in Ontario faces an election soon and all indications are they will be turfed out. Ontarian's simply cannot afford them any more.

- And of course the Liberal Government of BC is on the edge of annihilation and, in many ways, mirrors those of Quebec and Ontario in terms of the things that have the electorate upset with them, including charges of infiltration and corruption that reminds in many ways of the Chretien Liberals scandals. The only viable alternative being an NDP government.

And those seem to be the only "Liberals" left nation wide, and all of them seemingly in self destruct mode.

What has gone so wrong for the "Liberal Brand" across the country in the last decade or so that would have the electorate consider almost ANY other party as an alternative?

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Merry
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days???

Post by Merry »

I believe that the stories of corruption at the Federal level wounded the Liberals to the point that they have now become the main focus of people's general cynicism with politicians and our political system. Add to that rumours of corruption at the provincial level (particularly here in BC) and this general image of Liberals being opportunists "swilling at the trough" has only increased. People may not approve of the extreme left and right views of the NDP and Conservatives, but at least they perceive them as being mainly honest and having some integrity. Whereas the Liberals are viewed, fairly or unfairly, as being neither.
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Al Czervic
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days???

Post by Al Czervic »

The other salient point is that in most every instance cited you are also dealing with leaders who long overstayed their welcome. I agree that they are Liberals, but I also think a two term limit needs to be brought in for the benefit of everyone.
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steven lloyd
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days???

Post by steven lloyd »

Al Czervic wrote:... I also think a two term limit needs to be brought in for the benefit of everyone.

I agree that is a great idea.
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days???

Post by CatherineC »

steven lloyd wrote:
Al Czervic wrote:... I also think a two term limit needs to be brought in for the benefit of everyone.

I agree that is a great idea.


I agree (although I'd set it based on years) but to solve this particular problem? They'd just swill faster. And I say this of members of all parties. Corruption isn't confined to a single party, it's really bad in all of them.
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days?

Post by NAB »

""OTTAWA — Prime Minister Stephen Harper's governing Conservatives have lunged ahead of their political rivals in public favour and would easily be returned to power if an election occurred now, a new poll finds.


The national survey, conducted for Postmedia News and Global TV, reveals that the Tories have broken out of a lengthy stalemate in public opinion and appear to have political momentum on their side.


The new findings by Ipsos Reid raises questions whether Harper will try to precipitate an election next spring, or perhaps even earlier in 2011.


According to the survey conducted this week, the Conservatives are supported by 39 per cent of decided voters, up four points from a month ago. By comparison, Michael Ignatieff's Liberals remain at 29 per cent of the decided vote.


The NDP, led by Jack Layton, would garner 12 per cent of the vote, down four points from last month. The Green party, led by Elizabeth May, would receive nine per cent of the vote, down two points.""



Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/Stephen+Harp ... z17lrnHbmG
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days?

Post by Prism »

I don't know...But there's something 'off' about Michael Ignatieff & I can't quite put a finger on what it is. This is not merely some foolish "He doesn't look prime ministerial" thing. After all, we put Chretien into office & he's no beaut either. YES, when he grins he looks eerily like the Grinch who stole Christmas (from the original Dr. Seuss Animated feature)- but that isn't it either. Even when he's not grinning (a rare occurrence) he gives me the heebie-jeebies.
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days?

Post by Urbane »

    Prism wrote:I don't know...But there's something 'off' about Michael Ignatieff & I can't quite put a finger on what it is. This is not merely some foolish "He doesn't look prime ministerial" thing. After all, we put Chretien into office & he's no beaut either. YES, when he grins he looks eerily like the Grinch who stole Christmas (from the original Dr. Seuss Animated feature)- but that isn't it either. Even when he's not grinning (a rare occurrence) he gives me the heebie-jeebies.
He definitely seems out of step with Canadians in many ways. He's eager for an election, for example, but I don't think the majority of people want one:
The nationwide survey conducted this month by Ipsos Reid for Postmedia News and Global TV reveals 60% of voters believe the federal political process is “working just fine” and there’s no need for an election. Conversely, 40% of those surveyed agreed with the view that Parliament has become “hopelessly deadlocked” and that the country needs an election “to clear the air.”

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Countr ... z18Pqogyc0
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days?

Post by normaM »

from the G & M
"Still, Mr. Ignatieff’s stand remains a bold one, for his party would go into that election trailing the Conservatives in most polls and with the leader personally unpopular. One recent survey had 46 per cent of Liberal supporters saying Mr. Ignatieff should step down.

Those polls are meaningless, Mr. Ignatieff responded, because most people aren’t paying attention to federal politics."
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NAB
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days?

Post by NAB »

LOL. Man, is he dilusional or what?

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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days?

Post by Prism »

He's an intelligent man & he's sane. I don't think it's a matter of being delusional either (unfortunately). Were that the case, Canadians could simply cart his buns off in a big old basket & that would be that for that! I think it has more to do with his tremendous disdain for and dismissive attitude towards the desires & visions for the country of the 'masses' (aka real Canadians like you & me). Apparently, only a hyper-educated wealthy elite pundit such as himself can truly grasp political & economic concepts. The man is more of an arrogant condescending dictator than anything resembling a Canadian politician. The sooner we rid ourselves of him & his backers (the truly delusional ones!), the better off the nation will be.
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days???

Post by Fritzthecat »

Al Czervic wrote:The other salient point is that in most every instance cited you are also dealing with leaders who long overstayed their welcome. I agree that they are Liberals, but I also think a two term limit needs to be brought in for the benefit of everyone.

That is circumventing the whole idea of democracy.
What next? 2 terms for the Konservatives, two terms for the Liberals and then two for the NDP?
Think of all the money we could save on elections this way....
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days?

Post by Prism »

I'm skittish about the idea of a 2 term limit. We ought to be able to vote for the same leader as many times as we want to (or vote his or her @$$ out if we get sick of him!)
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days???

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Fritzthecat wrote:
Al Czervic wrote:The other salient point is that in most every instance cited you are also dealing with leaders who long overstayed their welcome. I agree that they are Liberals, but I also think a two term limit needs to be brought in for the benefit of everyone.

That is circumventing the whole idea of democracy.
What next? 2 terms for the Konservatives, two terms for the Liberals and then two for the NDP?
Think of all the money we could save on elections this way....


facepalm....

Two term limit for leaders....leaders....not parties...sigh....that way Gordo would be gone by now, and Canada could have turfed Trudeau after two terms and been in a much better place than it is now, though I am sure if a two term rule had been in place in his era Trudeau would have Chavezed the rules and made sure that his term was extended.

You don't need a two term limit for the NDP as their leaders can never avoid scandal long enough to make it through even one term.
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Re: What's with "Liberals" these days?

Post by Ken7 »

The Liberals.. Hmmm…I used to have a very good friend who was with the Liberal party in the late 1980's.

We discussed many things. The one that sticks with me the most was the Liberal plan they had to bring CANADA up to a zero deficit.

We spoke at length on this topic and I learned that following the model of I believe Sweden or Switzerland used the tax base would be a flat tax on your gross earnings. Very simple process I’d say, no tricks, no need for reassessments and so easy the average person could figure it out. Your total T4’s and remove off the top 20%.

Now some say 20% wow, if you make in the area of 60K you are paying more than 20%. What would this have done for Canada if implemented?

According to the study which I was never given although promised. It would clear the Canadian deficit, and it would give every Canadian, medical and dental for FREE. There were other social programs that there was also funding for. The downfall is was that all corporations would also have to pay 20% of gross net earnings before handing out large bonuses to their CEO etc. Note, the downfall, how many companies would be in favor of this??

I do not recall how many years this would take to zero up, although I sure wished I could have read the report or study. In closing, if this is true why does the Liberal party not bring this study forth?? Is it not the intention of any elected official to help our country run effectively?? To date all I notice and I won’t throw dirt at the feet of any party, they all seem to be fighting instead of trying to run this country in the most cost effective manor they know!! To watch a group of educated people fight like children makes me sick!


That’s my stand on politics; we have to focus on why they are elected. If they are sitting there throwing dirt do they deserve your vote or are you throwing out a vote by voting for them or their political party ???

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