Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

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butcher99
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

Post by butcher99 »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Logitack wrote:the ndp will never ever form government, you have nothing to worry about the dollar being devalued because of the ndp policies.... can canadians afford the conservative getting a majority...NO!


you are right - lets spend $300-400 million every two years to go around the merry-go-round every time Iggy and Taliban Jack manufacture another bogus reason to head for the polls. THAT we seem to be able to afford, no problem.


Here is a conspiracy theory for you

The Conservative party of Canada put forth a budget knowing it would not pass. From this they would get an election in which they say the only way to not have an election is to get a majority Conservative party knowing that this will not happen.

From this election another minority government is formed which they will bring down by some means as soon as feasible. They will then be in a better position to crow from the tree tops, We Told You So. Vote us in as majority or we will just keep up this election parade.

Sounds about what a politician would do to me.
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

Post by butcher99 »

The Green Barbarian wrote:well there is no better policy to deflate the value of the Canadian dollar internationally then electing the NDP as our next government. I'd be trading in my Cdn dollars for Mexican pesos as the peso at least would have some value! :dyinglaughing:



That is a pretty blanket statement with no grounds.

Why do you think that would happen?
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

Post by butcher99 »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Logitack wrote:democracy, good when it benefits you, not so much when it doesnt....BOOOOHOOOOOOO


you lost me with this comment - how is democracy being served in this case? Especially if absolutely nothing changes after this election - ie if this election goes the way the last three elections have gone?



We will get the government that works best for Canada. A minority government. We will get a government that may not last long, but it will not serve me or you, or business or the rich or the unions overly.

You will get a government that is forced to compromise to stay in power. If they do not compromise they will be out on their ear and we will be back into another election.

That is pretty much how democracy in Canada works.
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

Post by butcher99 »

Merry wrote:
The Green Barbarian wrote:I have forgotten this completely as as far as I am concerned this was completely manufactured by the opposition and a bogus excuse to run to the polls.

Given that the reason the government was found in contempt was their "failure to produce all documents that had been requested from it or to provide a satisfactory explanation for withholding them [which] impedes the ability of MPs to carry out their duties" wouldn't it have been simpler for the government to produce the documents rather than be pushed into an election?

I'm sorry Barbarian, but there's blame to be had on all sides (including Harper's) when it comes to the reason we're now into yet another election campaign. Blaming the whole thing on the Opposition is too simplistic, and also simply untrue. If Harper didn't want an election, why the heck didn't he just produce the requested documents?



Also, if Harper did not want an election why was the Conservative party the only party 100% ready to run. The conservatives even had their candidates prepicked to run in ridings like Stockwell Days riding where he just stepped down.

If you don't think that last statement is true, ask Shawn Upshaw if he feels the Conservatives were ready with a candidate or not.
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Bagotricks
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

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butcher99 wrote:
The Green Barbarian wrote:
Logitack wrote:the ndp will never ever form government, you have nothing to worry about the dollar being devalued because of the ndp policies.... can canadians afford the conservative getting a majority...NO!


you are right - lets spend $300-400 million every two years to go around the merry-go-round every time Iggy and Taliban Jack manufacture another bogus reason to head for the polls. THAT we seem to be able to afford, no problem.


Here is a conspiracy theory for you

The Conservative party of Canada put forth a budget knowing it would not pass. From this they would get an election in which they say the only way to not have an election is to get a majority Conservative party knowing that this will not happen.

From this election another minority government is formed which they will bring down by some means as soon as feasible. They will then be in a better position to crow from the tree tops, We Told You So. Vote us in as majority or we will just keep up this election parade.

Sounds about what a politician would do to me.


Considering that Harper already promised Canadians that he *wont* work and cooperate with the other parties and plans to table the exact same budget after the election - minority gov or not - you are in the gold.

Have you been reading the secret plans of the Con party? Not so secret anymore I suppose.

I can already see the "I told you so" attack ads.
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

Post by The Green Barbarian »

butcher99 wrote:
The Green Barbarian wrote:well there is no better policy to deflate the value of the Canadian dollar internationally then electing the NDP as our next government. I'd be trading in my Cdn dollars for Mexican pesos as the peso at least would have some value! :dyinglaughing:



That is a pretty blanket statement with no grounds.

Why do you think that would happen?


Oh boy - take an economics class first off. But secondly - have a look at the devaluation of the Euro and the US dollar since 2008. It is no coincidence that gold hit yet another record price today. Then look at how much money the EU and the US is printing right now just to stay above water with their massive spending and their interest payments they have to make on all of their debt. THEN look at Layton's current platform and the BILLIONS of dollars we would have to print to meet even half of his absurd promises. We would be behind the 8 ball in a year or less just like the Americans and the Europeans if Layton had control of the public purse. When you can't borrow anymore you print money, which causes inflation, which causes devaluation of your currency. It's basic supply and demand, something left-wing types just never can grasp, and it really really is exasperating.
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Bagotricks
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

Post by Bagotricks »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
butcher99 wrote:
The Green Barbarian wrote:well there is no better policy to deflate the value of the Canadian dollar internationally then electing the NDP as our next government. I'd be trading in my Cdn dollars for Mexican pesos as the peso at least would have some value! :dyinglaughing:



That is a pretty blanket statement with no grounds.

Why do you think that would happen?


Oh boy - take an economics class first off. But secondly - have a look at the devaluation of the Euro and the US dollar since 2008. It is no coincidence that gold hit yet another record price today. Then look at how much money the EU and the US is printing right now just to stay above water with their massive spending and their interest payments they have to make on all of their debt. THEN look at Layton's current platform and the BILLIONS of dollars we would have to print to meet even half of his absurd promises. We would be behind the 8 ball in a year or less just like the Americans and the Europeans if Layton had control of the public purse. When you can't borrow anymore you print money, which causes inflation, which causes devaluation of your currency. It's basic supply and demand, something left-wing types just never can grasp, and it really really is exasperating.


...and how much debt is Canada currently in?

When Mulroney and George Bush ( W and Sr. ) left office, how did the public coffers look when they were done with them?

Just curious as to the track record of the fiscally responsible right ;)
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

Post by UnknownResident »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
butcher99 wrote:
The Green Barbarian wrote:well there is no better policy to deflate the value of the Canadian dollar internationally then electing the NDP as our next government. I'd be trading in my Cdn dollars for Mexican pesos as the peso at least would have some value! :dyinglaughing:



That is a pretty blanket statement with no grounds.

Why do you think that would happen?


Oh boy - take an economics class first off. But secondly - have a look at the devaluation of the Euro and the US dollar since 2008. It is no coincidence that gold hit yet another record price today. Then look at how much money the EU and the US is printing right now just to stay above water with their massive spending and their interest payments they have to make on all of their debt. THEN look at Layton's current platform and the BILLIONS of dollars we would have to print to meet even half of his absurd promises. We would be behind the 8 ball in a year or less just like the Americans and the Europeans if Layton had control of the public purse. When you can't borrow anymore you print money, which causes inflation, which causes devaluation of your currency. It's basic supply and demand, something left-wing types just never can grasp, and it really really is exasperating.



Really this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. When the Cons took over we had a surplus and now we have the most debt we've ever had. I know I know, the economy tanked, and the other parties wanted to spend more...etc etc. However I would've preferred a government that allowed the economy to tank - government intervention via stimulus packages just lengthens the hard times.

And the gold prices is a whole topic in itself really. The only reason they are climbing is fear mongering from extreme right-wing stations.

And the whole way you expalined our monetary system I don't think is that accurate. We actually borrow money and then print the borrowed money, the problem is we have to pay the borrowed money back plus interest. That's where inflation happens, and obviously the more money you print (borrow) the more inflation occurs. I'm not quite sure what happens when you can't borrow anymore money, considering all our money is technically borrowed already, but I can't see how you can just print more money you don't have. And when you print lots of money it loses value elsewhere, and I think that's where you get the arguement that the mexican peso will be worth more than our dollar.
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

Post by butcher99 »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
butcher99 wrote:
The Green Barbarian wrote:well there is no better policy to deflate the value of the Canadian dollar internationally then electing the NDP as our next government. I'd be trading in my Cdn dollars for Mexican pesos as the peso at least would have some value! :dyinglaughing:



That is a pretty blanket statement with no grounds.

Why do you think that would happen?


Oh boy - take an economics class first off. But secondly - have a look at the devaluation of the Euro and the US dollar since 2008. It is no coincidence that gold hit yet another record price today. Then look at how much money the EU and the US is printing right now just to stay above water with their massive spending and their interest payments they have to make on all of their debt. THEN look at Layton's current platform and the BILLIONS of dollars we would have to print to meet even half of his absurd promises. We would be behind the 8 ball in a year or less just like the Americans and the Europeans if Layton had control of the public purse. When you can't borrow anymore you print money, which causes inflation, which causes devaluation of your currency. It's basic supply and demand, something left-wing types just never can grasp, and it really really is exasperating.


And the conservatives are different how? Massive cuts to the income side of the ledger and then billions upon billions for new jails and upkeep and then billions to look after the people who will be put in there because.. just because...
Billions for new planes that everyone else is bailing on (including the US). You need to quit worrying about what the NDP would do and look at what the conservatives are doing.
IF the conservatives get in it will be a couple of years before the balloon breaks and the liberals and/or the NDP have to come in and put things right again.

We can all see just how well the same economics worked in the US and some of us can see that they will not work here either.
Some people however just never figure out that cutting taxes does not raise more money.
They do the same old thing every time they get a bit of power and things fall apart and they just can't figure out why. They did cut taxes and regulation.... what happened.. maybe if we cut taxes and regulation more.

STUPID: doing the exact same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Once harper gets eventually cast into the same loser frame that Mulrooney ended up in the libs or NDP will come back and save Canada again.
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

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butcher99 wrote: Once harper gets eventually cast into the same loser frame that Mulrooney ended up in the libs or NDP will come back and save Canada again.


And exactly the reaction I expected from the usual peanut gallery. The problem here is that the facts are against you guys. Canada has an incredibly strong dollar right now because unlike you guys, people who know about things like economics know that the government under Harper is in good fiscal hands and therefore there is a good chance we'll pay back our debts etc. Just watch what the dollar does if the Liberals/Laytonites take over the government in a grubby back-room deal. It will tank mightily - guaranteed. It's just the way it is - socialism is death to the health of economies, and their disciples make lousy economic managers. Sorry that you guys have such a hard time understanding that, but I am not your daddy so I am done trying to explain it to you.

PS - the only thing that the NDP will ever "save" Canada from, is economic prosperity, international respect (from international people that really matter and not loony tune organizations that no one cares about), low taxes, a decent future for our children and grandchildren, and pride and self-worth - especially the last two.
LET'S GO BRANDON!

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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

Post by The Green Barbarian »

UnknownResident wrote:
Really this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. When the Cons took over we had a surplus and now we have the most debt we've ever had. I know I know, the economy tanked, and the other parties wanted to spend more...etc etc. However I would've preferred a government that allowed the economy to tank - government intervention via stimulus packages just lengthens the hard times.

.


We all would have preferred that UR, at least most of us anyway. I know I sure wished Harper hadn't caved to the demands of the yipping little dog Layton, Iggyotic and the rest of the gang that forced him into all of that spending. It was actually refreshing to see you type this as it shows you are not lost like some other posters on here I can name and you understand that government deficit spending isn't the be all and end all. Good for you.
LET'S GO BRANDON!

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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

Post by UnknownResident »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
UnknownResident wrote:
Really this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. When the Cons took over we had a surplus and now we have the most debt we've ever had. I know I know, the economy tanked, and the other parties wanted to spend more...etc etc. However I would've preferred a government that allowed the economy to tank - government intervention via stimulus packages just lengthens the hard times.

.


We all would have preferred that UR, at least most of us anyway. I know I sure wished Harper hadn't caved to the demands of the yipping little dog Layton, Iggyotic and the rest of the gang that forced him into all of that spending. It was actually refreshing to see you type this as it shows you are not lost like some other posters on here I can name and you understand that government deficit spending isn't the be all and end all. Good for you.



There's a brain in my head, unfortunately we don't see eye to eye on quite a few things. That being said the big three political parties all agree that government spending via stimuluses are a good idea when facing an economic slowdown. The only difference is Harper's original stimulus didn't have everything the other parties wanted, but rest assured he did want a stimulus package. (He just wanted most of the money to go to Conservative ridings :sillygrin: , I had to get my jab in!)
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

Post by butcher99 »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
butcher99 wrote: Once harper gets eventually cast into the same loser frame that Mulrooney ended up in the libs or NDP will come back and save Canada again.


And exactly the reaction I expected from the usual peanut gallery. The problem here is that the facts are against you guys. Canada has an incredibly strong dollar right now because unlike you guys, people who know about things like economics know that the government under Harper is in good fiscal hands and therefore there is a good chance we'll pay back our debts etc. Just watch what the dollar does if the Liberals/Laytonites take over the government in a grubby back-room deal. It will tank mightily - guaranteed. It's just the way it is - socialism is death to the health of economies, and their disciples make lousy economic managers. Sorry that you guys have such a hard time understanding that, but I am not your daddy so I am done trying to explain it to you.

PS - the only thing that the NDP will ever "save" Canada from, is economic prosperity, international respect (from international people that really matter and not loony tune organizations that no one cares about), low taxes, a decent future for our children and grandchildren, and pride and self-worth - especially the last two.


You just cannot make a post without an insult can you. Canada has a strong dollar despite the Conservatives. The conservatives were in the process of trying to lessen regulation in Canada a couple years ago which would have put us in the same basket as the US.

Before you make blanket statements like " socialism is death to the health of economies, and their disciples make lousy economic managers" you may want to check around the world and see how the "socialist" countries are doing. You may want to compare them with the decidedly unsocialist United States and their dollar.
Did you know that the countries in the BRIC alliance have all decided that the US (unsocialist) dollar is not a dollar they want to do their dealings in anymore.




Sweden is currently 7.6
Denmark 7.9
Switzerland 3.4
Norway 3.5
United States 8.8
Canada 7.7
Brazil 7.

Only one country in that list stands out doesn't it....
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

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Butcher, I'd say the US is in deep economic trouble not because of its free enterprise tendencies but because of its debt. 85% of that debt is due to the entitlement programs (Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid). And look at Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and Spain (to name a few) that have been in serious economic trouble because of their costly entitlement programs. I'm not in favour of an unfettered capitalist system that has no safety net but we need to find the right balance. It seems to me we're on the right track now and perhaps your assertion that the Conservatives are just lucky indicates that you too think we're on the right track. Whether or not the Conservatives deliberately brought us on to the right track or stumbled on to the right track can be argued but I'm just happy we're on that track.
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Re: Harper Government In Contempt of Parliament

Post by butcher99 »

Urbane wrote:Butcher, I'd say the US is in deep economic trouble not because of its free enterprise tendencies but because of its debt. 85% of that debt is due to the entitlement programs (Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid). And look at Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and Spain (to name a few) that have been in serious economic trouble because of their costly entitlement programs. I'm not in favour of an unfettered capitalist system that has no safety net but we need to find the right balance. It seems to me we're on the right track now and perhaps your assertion that the Conservatives are just lucky indicates that you too think we're on the right track. Whether or not the Conservatives deliberately brought us on to the right track or stumbled on to the right track can be argued but I'm just happy we're on that track.



Check your facts. About 50% of the US budget is consumed by the big 3. Not 85%. You have not even mentioned the military budget which in the US is still growing. The things being cut in the US are piddly compared to those items.

No I did not mention Portugal or Ireland or Greece but then there are just as many right wing countries who are in bad states as well.
Ireland does not really fit the mold of "socialist" as it is being called incorrectly in these discussions They are more center of the road although they do have more left leaning social programs than the US would have economically they are more centre or slightly right wing. After all, they did cut taxes to corporations which brought in an age of prosperity which left as soon as someone undercut their tax cuts. Now they have no industry and no taxes.

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