Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!

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rekabis
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by rekabis »

xlauvawke wrote:
Captain Awesome wrote:Yes, but with big brother controlling everything 4chan would never exist. And that's a good thing.
'


i disagree.


Seconded. 4Chan is one of the truly great incubators of freedom on the Internet. Yes, they brought us the /b/ channel, but they also helped to give birth to Anonymous -- which in of itself makes up for /b/ and pretty well any other objectionable content. Without Anonymous, oppression and injustice would have one less voice speaking up against it.

Besides, it is really only /b/ which is nasty. Stay out of /b/, and you will remain largely uncorrupted. Mostly. Sorta. Ya, okay -- /b/tards tend to pop up on the other channels as well, but the janitors and admins tend to keep things clean most of the time.

But then again, the totally anonymous aspect of 4Chan is also what makes it so great -- truly revolutionary ideas can germinate there without any fear of reprisal by those in authority. Provided you take the time to separate the wheat from the chaff, that is.
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by Glacier »

rekabis wrote:Nab, how would you feel if police came to your door and arrested you because you were talking about standing up for your rights? (in some places this is called “civil disobedience”) This is the slope down which this kind of legislation leads. China has it. Iran has it. Now Canada may have it as well.

I agree that this is concerning, and it's along the same reason why gun control is also equally concerning (the Nazis had gun control, the Chinese have gun control...).

If were stuck with Harper, we get a police state policy; if we're stuck with Iggy, we could be get a police state policy.

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Urbane
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by Urbane »

The internet surveillance aspect of the crime bill certainly hasn't had a proper vetting and one can only hope that occurs. Court oversight of surveillance on individuals is important. I would certainly like to hear a defence of this proposal from the Conservatives because at first blush (I wasn't aware of it until this evening) I'm not impressed. In fact, Canada's privacy commissioner in 2009 said:

"The [obtaining] of a warrant for looking into people's private papers, private affairs, now e-mail conversations is a basic tenet of our democratic and constitutional rights in Canada. To erode this is a very serious step toward mass surveillance so I would like to get a copy of any draft legislation and look at how this could be possibly justified. I've said in the past I've seen no compelling argument put forward for its justification."
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steven lloyd
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by steven lloyd »

rekabis wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:For one very singular reason I’ve been fully prepared to vote Conservative in this next election.

Is that a private reason, or would you care to enlighten us? Frankly I can’t understand why *anyone* would want to vote Conservative. And the Libs have Michæl Ignatieff, which is a good enough reason all by itself to eschew them as well… Never thought I’d say this, but without a Libertarian or Pirate Party rep in Kelowna-Lake Country, I’ll probably be voting for Jack Layton’s NDP. Let’s hope they’ve changed their stripes since the 1980’s…

I voted NDP in the last federal election simply to support the idea of providing balance to Parliament. Our MP, Nathan Cullen, won by a landslide in the last election and will likely win by a landslide again in this election. I won’t vote for him again; however, because he introduced a bill to ban tanker traffic from our coasts. Is he insane? He represents one of the most economically impoverished regions in the country and he wants to erect “closed for business signs” along our coast line???

I work in the criminal justice system, and I recognize the counterproductively of Harper’s proposed “get tough on crime” initiatives (that will actually contribute to increased crime rates and recidivism). However, in a discussion with a co-worker I asked “if there was just one single thing we could provide the people we work with that would contribute to reduced risk of re-offending, what would that be?” Well, the no-brainer answer to that question is a freaking job!

There are few places in Canada as economically depressed as northwestern BC, and given the potential abundance of resources waiting to be and extracted and sold globally and moved through our natural ports that is just ridiculous. This area should be booming and the only reason it is not is due to ill-advised politics and the agenda of ill-advised eco-freaks. As many concerns as I have about the Conservatives (and they grow every day), without continued economic recovery and the opportunity for employment little else matters and every other party seems oblivious to this fact. For this reason, and this reason alone, I have no other choice than to vote Conservative (and may God have mercy on my soul).
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Captain Awesome
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by Captain Awesome »

rekabis wrote:But then again, the totally anonymous aspect of 4Chan is also what makes it so great -- truly revolutionary ideas can germinate there without any fear of reprisal by those in authority.


And what revolutionary ideas came from 4Chan exactly?
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rekabis
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by rekabis »

Glacier wrote:
rekabis wrote:Nab, how would you feel if police came to your door and arrested you because you were talking about standing up for your rights? (in some places this is called “civil disobedience”) This is the slope down which this kind of legislation leads. China has it. Iran has it. Now Canada may have it as well.

I agree that this is concerning, and it's along the same reason why gun control is also equally concerning (the Nazis had gun control, the Chinese have gun control...).

If were stuck with Harper, we get a police state policy; if we're stuck with Iggy, we could be get a police state policy.


About gun control: FULLY AGREE.

The only guns I would ever advocate controlling are those that can hold more than six bullets, and where those bullets are contained in an easy-to-reload clip. There is no logical, reasonable, rational or legal reason why someone would need to have a semi- or fully-automatic uzi that can spew 50+ bullets at 600 rounds/min without reloading.

Small pistols, on the other hand, especially revolvers that need to be manually reloaded, are the perfect defensive tool for any concerned citizen. Any registration thereof would be optional, and only to ensure that the citizen can properly identify the gun if it is stolen, and to easily flag it as stolen (for pawn shops to compare against, etc.) so the thief could be prosecuted if it is found. Much like how electronics hardware can be “registered” (think AppleCare for Macs) so that if it is stolen, it can be returned to owner if found (all Apple Authorized Service Providers need to check a Mac’s serial number against Apple’s database when it is checked in, and if it is stolen that information is displayed on GSX, the AASP Intranet).
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rekabis
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by rekabis »

steven lloyd wrote:
rekabis wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:For one very singular reason I’ve been fully prepared to vote Conservative in this next election.

Is that a private reason, or would you care to enlighten us? Frankly I can’t understand why *anyone* would want to vote Conservative. And the Libs have Michæl Ignatieff, which is a good enough reason all by itself to eschew them as well… Never thought I’d say this, but without a Libertarian or Pirate Party rep in Kelowna-Lake Country, I’ll probably be voting for Jack Layton’s NDP. Let’s hope they’ve changed their stripes since the 1980’s…

I voted NDP in the last federal election simply to support the idea of providing balance to Parliament. Our MP, Nathan Cullen, won by a landslide in the last election and will likely win by a landslide again in this election. I won’t vote for him again; however, because he introduced a bill to ban tanker traffic from our coasts. Is he insane? He represents one of the most economically impoverished regions in the country and he wants to erect “closed for business signs” along our coast line???

I work in the criminal justice system, and I recognize the counterproductively of Harper’s proposed “get tough on crime” initiatives (that will actually contribute to increased crime rates and recidivism). However, in a discussion with a co-worker I asked “if there was just one single thing we could provide the people we work with that would contribute to reduced risk of re-offending, what would that be?” Well, the no-brainer answer to that question is a freaking job!

There are few places in Canada as economically depressed as northwestern BC, and given the potential abundance of resources waiting to be and extracted and sold globally and moved through our natural ports that is just ridiculous. This area should be booming and the only reason it is not is due to ill-advised politics and the agenda of ill-advised eco-freaks. As many concerns as I have about the Conservatives (and they grow every day), without continued economic recovery and the opportunity for employment little else matters and every other party seems oblivious to this fact. For this reason, and this reason alone, I have no other choice than to vote Conservative (and may God have mercy on my soul).


Have you brought this issue up with him, perhaps in a well-written and concise letter? If he is trying to ban tanker traffic, he must have a serious misconception as to what the real issues are. Even I know that is a brain-dead manoeuvre, and I have never gone further north than Quesnel!

IMHO Prince Rupert should be flogged for all its worth as an alternative deep-harbour port to Vancouver. It could easily be a shining gem in BC’s northern half if only the government promoted it correctly!! The underutilized rail lines out of that city are attractive enough to make it worthwhile!

If I were you, I would try to get in contact with him and do my best to convince him otherwise (in a rational manner, btw!). It may be that he had pressures from elsewhere (a hippie relative, etc.) and doesn’t really believe in that issue himself.
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steven lloyd
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by steven lloyd »

That’s not a bad idea rek, and I should have taken the initiative at the time he introduced the bill. However, with the election only weeks away I highly doubt I’ll be the one to sway him in time. I also doubt my Conservative vote will have much impact on the election in my riding as Nathan Cullen (and the NDP) is very popular up here. For many good reasons the people in the more isolated rural communities have little reason to be beholding to the more popular Parties - and given their importance to the overall potential economic contribution to the province and country that is ironically sad. It’s much similar to many flawed preconceptions – such as union work environments, for example. How can we expect our politicians to be above such erroneous bias when their supporters who they think to represent aren’t ?
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rekabis
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by rekabis »

Captain Awesome wrote:
rekabis wrote:But then again, the totally anonymous aspect of 4Chan is also what makes it so great -- truly revolutionary ideas can germinate there without any fear of reprisal by those in authority.


And what revolutionary ideas came from 4Chan exactly?


Well, LOLcats, for one.
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Captain Awesome
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by Captain Awesome »

rekabis wrote:
Captain Awesome wrote:
rekabis wrote:But then again, the totally anonymous aspect of 4Chan is also what makes it so great -- truly revolutionary ideas can germinate there without any fear of reprisal by those in authority.


And what revolutionary ideas came from 4Chan exactly?


Well, LOLcats, for one.


Oh yes, the world wouldn't be the same if we didn't have LOLcats.

There's a truly revolutionary and awe-aspiring idea that will fuel the creativity of millions for generations.
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by NAB »

Without a “free and wild” Internet, we are all greatly diminished.


I feel the opposite rek. i.e. WITH a "free and wild" internet we are all greatly diminished. Anarchy in any form or any medium only favours anarchists and criminals, so thank gosh the majority of Canadian citizens and our parliamentary system, laws, and Constitution provides for ways to oppose it at every opportunity. We don't have a problem with free speech or even gun control either, unless of course it has criminal, or harmful to civilized society or individuals (particularly children or the disadvantaged) as its intent in some way.

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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by I Think »

So there are whackadoodles (SL's word) on this site who despite the long list of illegalities and malfeasance perpetrated by the harpy government, will turn a blind eye to these crimes, and vote for a police state with new prisons, and a goofy aircraft order pending, while eroding the Canada health care system.

Because of harpies use of the internet to single out people who speak out against him, harpy will be my new word for the religious zealot we have in power now.
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Nibs wrote:So there are whackadoodles (SL's word) on this site who despite the long list of illegalities and malfeasance perpetrated by the harpy government, will turn a blind eye to these crimes, and vote for a police state with new prisons, and a goofy aircraft order pending, while eroding the Canada health care system.

Because of harpies use of the internet to single out people who speak out against him, harpy will be my new word for the religious zealot we have in power now.


So we have Harpy instead of Harper, Iggy-otic instead of Ignatieff, Taliban Jack instead of Jack Layton. That just leaves two leaders that we have to come up with names for. Suggestions?

Elizabeth May - Screeching Owl (endangered)
Gilles Duceppe - Gilles Deceit? Separator? He's tough one - he rarely says stupid things like Layton and he has a personality unlike Ignatieff and Harper.
LET'S GO BRANDON!

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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by Ranger66 »

" it has its misleading, very ugly (and dangerous), sides too. Thus I am of the view that some significantly enhanced means of policing it must be put in place,"



If ugly and dangerous are the prerequisites for significantly enhanced means of policing then I would think gun control should be put in place before thought control.
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Re: Conservative Party: Big Brother on the Internet!!

Post by NAB »

I thought we already had gun control in place ranger? And long arms too, although I understand that long arms such as are used for hunting are a target for not having to register. I suspect "guns" will always be required to be registered however.

And background checks as well as demonstrated proficiency before licensing are always necessary IMO.

Edit to add: But when you get into suggestiions of "thought control", I think that belongs in the conspiracy forum, not out here.

Nab
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