Vote Mobs!

A temporary forum for discussion about the upcoming election.
CJT84
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by CJT84 »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Bagotricks wrote:Less than 5% of people own more than the other 95% combined. “Welcome to the conservative side of the fence.”


:dyinglaughing: :dyinglaughing: :dyinglaughing:

Bago Bago - still have that nasty habit of quoting ridiculous stats that you can never back up with real facts? I was hoping that you had learned by now, especially after the "Justin Bieber generates $85 billion a year to the Canadian economy" fiasco. Really - before you type this kind of stuff, please please think - "Can I substantiate this incredibly crazy claim or will I look foolish when called on it". For your own sake at least. Just some friendly advice.


Less than 1% of the population can put a gun to your head and make you give them money. Less than 1% of the population can draft you into an overseas conflict. Less than 1% of the population controls whether or not you can buy a home, drive a car, own a gun, how much interest you pay on loans, and more. That less than 1% is the government not business who have to convince you to give them money, not steal it from you.
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grammafreddy
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by grammafreddy »

It's okay, Baggie ... I was an optimist once upon a time. And then I grew up and gained some insight into the concept of "working for a living" instead of being a student full of worldly ideals filled with fairy tales of "social justice and equal opportunity for all" while still wet behind the ears and never being responsible for anyone but myself.

Once I got a taste of how much of my paycheque I didn't get to keep in my jeans, I woke up and figured out that social justice and equal opportunity was making me poor - that there were sloths that I was paying the rent for when I was struggling to pay my own rent and keep my nose out of the rising tide of national debt.

Then I saw that moms were working at jobs that paid more than mine, and were getting the perks of paid or subsidized child care, and that I was paying those moms to go to work at their above-average jobs. They were riding on my wage's coat tails.

Their precious pampered kids were getting lunch programs, music programs, sports programs - and I was paying for them from my lesser wages and I decided I didn't like providing things for people who didn't budget their expenses into their wages and counted on people like me to give their kids all these "entitlements" they thought they deserved - from picking my pockets.

I struggle to pay my own rent and utilities and put food on my own table - and yet these parents suck from the public trough and enjoy a life far better than mine in a fancier house they couldn't really afford with several vehicles and an RV in their drive - and here I am - with a big "M" on my forehead and the government's hands taking the money out of my wallet.

I see students at uni who think life is a drug/drunk fest and going to uni stands for party not learning. I see them with too-high debt and see them not managing their money. I see them whining about costs of education but they haven't yet learned to be frugal or apply any sense of responsibility to their lives - and they think it is up to government to make their learning years easier for them - but they also haven't learned that "government" is the people who work for a living in this country and every penny they think they deserve comes from some poor working stiff who may not have a uni education or even a pot to p!ss in but they are so out in left field they think it is their right to take that person's money so that they can be educated.

So, vote left - please! Because now it is MY turn to suck all you young people dry - my generation is going to make you poor - poorer than I was - because you will do it to yourselves by rampaging for social justice and equality for all, along with your precious "save the world" mentality. I will take everything you give me - and I will demand more. And there's a lot just like me, too. Voting left now will make you the poorest generation of working Canadians in history. And you will do it to yourselves.
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JLives
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by JLives »

Why do we hate each other so much? Money is such a divider. The attitude of "where is mine" is something I don't care to be a part of.

I don't care if someone else has subsidised child care and I pay out of my pocket. Bully for them and, yes, I pay out of my own pocket with no subsidies. I'm glad she is out earning life skills in case something should happen to her partner or marital status. I believe all women should have practical skills, you never know where life will lead. Losing my father at 6 years old taught me that the hard way.

I wouldn't mind paying more taxes especially if it meant more access to education for others. Education is everything and the West could be doing a heck of alot better right now. It's easy to see why when you see the sacrificies it takes to get a good one. I'll be paying for mine for a long time.

I read this quote recently and it struck me as very true "Government is the things we decide to do together". It's not to allow businesses to pillage every penny out of the working class so the few at the top can buy a third house and a fifth car. It's creating an environment where the next generations can flourish and advance life for all of us. If we are only working for our own advancement, that doesn't happen. That it is what Conservatives represent to me and I can't support it. I still believe cooperation is the best way to make good things happen for ALL of us, thanks Sesame Street.

I hope the youth get out and vote for a more inclusive Canada.
"Every dollar you spend is a vote for what you believe in."
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good."
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grammafreddy
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by grammafreddy »

If you didn't get all your paycheque, Jenny, I bet you'd be asking for it. You earned it and you deserve to get paid for your work. So, if your boss decides that his cousin's girl, who is a single mom, should have 75% of your paycheque to buy food with and to pay her rent, you'd be okay with that? You'd keep on working for him for 25% of your wages just so the girl would have the advantages? How will you feed your own family or keep your own roof if your boss keeps taking your money from you?

Now substitute "boss" for "government" ...
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We are a generation of idiots - smart phones and dumb people.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
CJT84
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by CJT84 »

jennylives wrote:Why do we hate each other so much? Money is such a divider. The attitude of "where is mine" is something I don't care to be a part of.

I don't care if someone else has subsidised child care and I pay out of my pocket. Bully for them and, yes, I pay out of my own pocket with no subsidies. I'm glad she is out earning life skills in case something should happen to her partner or marital status. I believe all women should have practical skills, you never know where life will lead. Losing my father at 6 years old taught me that the hard way.

I wouldn't mind paying more taxes especially if it meant more access to education for others. Education is everything and the West could be doing a heck of alot better right now. It's easy to see why when you see the sacrificies it takes to get a good one. I'll be paying for mine for a long time.

I read this quote recently and it struck me as very true "Government is the things we decide to do together". It's not to allow businesses to pillage every penny out of the working class so the few at the top can buy a third house and a fifth car. It's creating an environment where the next generations can flourish and advance life for all of us. If we are only working for our own advancement, that doesn't happen. That it is what Conservatives represent to me and I can't support it. I still believe cooperation is the best way to make good things happen for ALL of us, thanks Sesame Street.

I hope the youth get out and vote for a more inclusive Canada.


If you wouldn't mind paying more taxes then why don't you donate money to the government? They are likely not to refuse. Also you can donate to charities and trusts that help low income families afford better education as well and they do it a lot better than government does. What you want is other people to pay higher taxes. A flat tax would be better with no loopholes at 11-15% but then all the accountants would be out of their jobs.

Ok hold on, how do businesses "pillage the working class." ? Not sure how you can explain that given you can easily (along with anyone else) buy their stock and also benefit from their profits. The only thing that allows businesses to act badly is government collusion. So the socialist rhetoric of more government doesn't even make sense.

Capitalism is also about people working together. The difference between capitalism and socialism is that capitalism is voluntary cooperation based upon agreed value while socialism is forced cooperation based on someone else's value of what your labour and product are worth.
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JLives
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by JLives »

Gramma, I don't work for just myself, I consider paying taxes my duty as human being for those not as fortunate as I have been. I work for all of us.
"Every dollar you spend is a vote for what you believe in."
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good."
CJT84
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by CJT84 »

jennylives wrote:Gramma, I don't work for just myself, I consider paying taxes my duty as human being for those not as fortunate as I have been. I work for all of us.


couldn't you just as easily devote volunteer time and donate to charities?
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JLives
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by JLives »

So only the popular ones get help? That system is flawed.
"Every dollar you spend is a vote for what you believe in."
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good."
CJT84
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by CJT84 »

jennylives wrote:So only the popular ones get help? That system is flawed.


I'd say local charities like the food bank, gospel mission, inn from the cold and others do a hell of a better job with helping our most vulnerable than the government does.
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Tacklewasher
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by Tacklewasher »

CJT84 wrote: A flat tax would be better with no loopholes at 11-15% but then all the accountants would be out of their jobs.


Wouldn't impact my job one bit and I'm very much in favour of a simplified tax system (which is what most want when discussing a flat-tax).
CJT84
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by CJT84 »

Tacklewasher wrote:
CJT84 wrote: A flat tax would be better with no loopholes at 11-15% but then all the accountants would be out of their jobs.


Wouldn't impact my job one bit and I'm very much in favour of a simplified tax system (which is what most want when discussing a flat-tax).


I've read studies on flat tax systems that indicate you could get rid of almost every other tax (HST, capital gains, etc.) as long as the percentage was right and government spending was within those limits. Now if the government gets a surplus then it should refund each taxpayer according to how much they put in a well instead of expanding government.
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grammafreddy
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by grammafreddy »

jennylives wrote:Gramma, I don't work for just myself, I consider paying taxes my duty as human being for those not as fortunate as I have been. I work for all of us.


That's very good of you, Jenny. But really, couldn't you just use your earnings if that's your personal choice and quit demanding everyone else's earnings, too?

What gives anyone the right to take someone's money? Or anything else, for that matter?

I don't have a motorcycle or other cheap transportation ... maybe I could just take yours?

A homeless person could just move in with you maybe?

Or you could come out of the grocery store with a full buggy and some hungry person could just dip into your purchases and take what they want?

In all those scenarios, they are taking something that you have worked to pay for - which is what taxes are to governments. Too many people to help = higher taxes = less money to pay for your own needs = more social safety net funding = higher taxation for even more people needing government services from fewer people working. Why work? May as well just be a taker instead of an earner.

It's just all a big and growing circle.

Hell's bells, I have no idea why I am discouraging you! Just send money, okay? My OAP is too low and I am a bit hungry and the power bill is too high. Maybe you could put gas in the car, too, while you're at it and I could drive yours for a while.
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We are a generation of idiots - smart phones and dumb people.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
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Bagotricks
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by Bagotricks »

grammafreddy wrote:It's okay, Baggie ... I was an optimist once upon a time. And then I grew up and gained some insight into the concept of "working for a living" instead of being a student full of worldly ideals filled with fairy tales of "social justice and equal opportunity for all" while still wet behind the ears and never being responsible for anyone but myself.

Once I got a taste of how much of my paycheque I didn't get to keep in my jeans, I woke up and figured out that social justice and equal opportunity was making me poor - that there were sloths that I was paying the rent for when I was struggling to pay my own rent and keep my nose out of the rising tide of national debt.

Then I saw that moms were working at jobs that paid more than mine, and were getting the perks of paid or subsidized child care, and that I was paying those moms to go to work at their above-average jobs. They were riding on my wage's coat tails.

Their precious pampered kids were getting lunch programs, music programs, sports programs - and I was paying for them from my lesser wages and I decided I didn't like providing things for people who didn't budget their expenses into their wages and counted on people like me to give their kids all these "entitlements" they thought they deserved - from picking my pockets.

I struggle to pay my own rent and utilities and put food on my own table - and yet these parents suck from the public trough and enjoy a life far better than mine in a fancier house they couldn't really afford with several vehicles and an RV in their drive - and here I am - with a big "M" on my forehead and the government's hands taking the money out of my wallet.

I see students at uni who think life is a drug/drunk fest and going to uni stands for party not learning. I see them with too-high debt and see them not managing their money. I see them whining about costs of education but they haven't yet learned to be frugal or apply any sense of responsibility to their lives - and they think it is up to government to make their learning years easier for them - but they also haven't learned that "government" is the people who work for a living in this country and every penny they think they deserve comes from some poor working stiff who may not have a uni education or even a pot to p!ss in but they are so out in left field they think it is their right to take that person's money so that they can be educated.

So, vote left - please! Because now it is MY turn to suck all you young people dry - my generation is going to make you poor - poorer than I was - because you will do it to yourselves by rampaging for social justice and equality for all, along with your precious "save the world" mentality. I will take everything you give me - and I will demand more. And there's a lot just like me, too. Voting left now will make you the poorest generation of working Canadians in history. And you will do it to yourselves.


GF - I don't know when it happened to you - but you seem to think that taxing the rich for social services equates to also taxing you (I am guessing is in the lower class of income earner) to death on your paycheque and now your rooting for the wrong team. Like Tea Partiers complaining about raising the capital gains tax when most of them live in trailer parks!

Your on the bottom end and you want to bring people down to your level? Pampered music and social programs? Say what?

When the rich get tax breaks - your service fees go up and your personal taxes go up because coffers get drained. Then you look at all those "spolied kids" and get annoyed, but it was the tax breaks for the rich that started the slope to begin with. If you witnessed people owning a few cars and RV's and getting subsidized with their income, then that is FRAUD and not NDP dogma ;)

I own a small business. I have for years. I have to kill what I eat. Nobody helps me. The "green wet behind the ears" argument is invalid to me, because the more I am entrenched into the capitalistic life, the more I see the need to curb unfettered capitalism - not he other way around. I have seen people "convert" and what helped them along in their decision to swing right was GREED each and every time.

When I make a few million dollars - you wont hear me complaining I have to pay more taxes than the guy who is going to be on welfare when he retires.

I agree with you though - the boomers will bankrupt us, and I think YOU deserve better. Should you have to work until your 90 for minimum wage or should a guy making 29 million in one year only make 28 million?
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steven lloyd
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by steven lloyd »

UnknownResident wrote: ... , and I have news for you, most people who vote are uninformed, in all age groups.

Couldn’t agree with you more on that one unknown ...

Nibs wrote:
daria wrote:I think there's something to be said for instituting an IQ test,

If you had to have an iq test in order to vote, twould be the end of the harpys, always assuming the low end cut off was above a room temperature iq.
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steven lloyd
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Re: Vote Mobs!

Post by steven lloyd »

The Green Barbarian wrote: - from high school through to final year of university every "arts" course I took was populated with left-leaning academia that couldn't wait to try and shape our skulls full of mush into like-minded socialist protégés.

That must have been some interesting educational and academic experience you had. I’ve often wondered how some conceptions of education became so extreme. I admit that when I was taking economics at SFU there were more than a few left-wing extremists hanging around. On the other hand, there were also more than a few right-wing extremists hanging around (initially one of those myself). The great thing I remember of my first experience in academia was being challenged to question my preconceived notions and not always succumb to forming opinion based on stereotypical assumptions or rhetoric. In fact, it is that skill that has led to my decision to vote Conservative in this election.

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