Harper would have to axe programs to reduce deficit

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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Harper would have to axe programs to reduce deficit

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UnknownResident wrote:
grammafreddy wrote:Quite frankly, if I was the federal government, I would tell the international community to go *f* themselves over all this green agenda.



And that's your opinion, which you're entitled too. However the majority of the scientific community seem to disagree with you, and think that global climate change is a real thing that we should be concerned about. I think there would be some sort of backlash if Harper told the international community that he doesn't believe in any of it, thus we're not going to do anything. Regardless of my opinion, or your opinion, people who are educated on the matter (which neither of us are, and neither is Harper) seem to think it's a problem, and I tend to believe them only because they know what they're talking about. We really don't.


If the "scientific community" thought that man-made climate change was something "to be concerned about" that would be fine. Unfortunately, it is much much worse than that. The "global community" consistently puts pressure on Canada to impose insane taxes and cap and trade carbon credit schemes on its law-abiding citizens, as well as put poorly thought-out and thoroughly useless restrictions on our oilsands production. For what gain? Absolutely nothing. The oilsands contribute a miniscule percentage of GHG, and that's making the giant assumption that we should even care about GHG emissions, given no one has yet proven that GHG cause any change to climate. No one. Nada. Zip. Zero. So here we are, being pressured by fools to pay more taxes, cut the throat of our golden goose that pays for most of our lucrative social programs and keeps Canada afloat economically, all to appease a bunch of one-world losers who just want to funnel the tax money we collect into the pockets of third world dictators and "environmental organizations". It is a complete and utter scam, and thank goodness our government knows better than to fall for it. Your grandkids are going to thank you too.
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UnknownResident
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Re: Harper would have to axe programs to reduce deficit

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The Green Barbarian wrote:
UnknownResident wrote:
grammafreddy wrote:Quite frankly, if I was the federal government, I would tell the international community to go *f* themselves over all this green agenda.



And that's your opinion, which you're entitled too. However the majority of the scientific community seem to disagree with you, and think that global climate change is a real thing that we should be concerned about. I think there would be some sort of backlash if Harper told the international community that he doesn't believe in any of it, thus we're not going to do anything. Regardless of my opinion, or your opinion, people who are educated on the matter (which neither of us are, and neither is Harper) seem to think it's a problem, and I tend to believe them only because they know what they're talking about. We really don't.


If the "scientific community" thought that man-made climate change was something "to be concerned about" that would be fine. Unfortunately, it is much much worse than that. The "global community" consistently puts pressure on Canada to impose insane taxes and cap and trade carbon credit schemes on its law-abiding citizens, as well as put poorly thought-out and thoroughly useless restrictions on our oilsands production. For what gain? Absolutely nothing. The oilsands contribute a miniscule percentage of GHG, and that's making the giant assumption that we should even care about GHG emissions, given no one has yet proven that GHG cause any change to climate. No one. Nada. Zip. Zero. So here we are, being pressured by fools to pay more taxes, cut the throat of our golden goose that pays for most of our lucrative social programs and keeps Canada afloat economically, all to appease a bunch of one-world losers who just want to funnel the tax money we collect into the pockets of third world dictators and "environmental organizations". It is a complete and utter scam, and thank goodness our government knows better than to fall for it. Your grandkids are going to thank you too.



This is just one more voice that's uneducated in the matter though. Honestly if it's between listening to you, or the large majority of people who study the subject, I'm probably going to choose them. Although you seem to know more on the subject then I, so I would love to debate it further, however I am unable to, perhaps your fight is with the thousands of scientists who say differently. Unless of course this is another case of "Harper says it's this way, so we must follow his lead!". Because I find it hard to believe you think you're educated enough on the matter to disagree with thousands of people who study this sort of thing - no only Harper's head is big enough to do that.

I think also another thing which we're losing sight of, is personally I would love to not pay for gas, or have hydro bills, and have my air cleaner and the like. That would be great, and to move in that direction, regardless of the climate change, is a good move for me personally, and it is worth a lot to me. But this is a case of what matters to Canadians, and that's on my list of things that matter to me, another reason I won't vote Conservative, and is clearly something that doesn't really matter to you.
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Re: Harper would have to axe programs to reduce deficit

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UnknownResident wrote:I think also another thing which we're losing sight of, is personally I would love to not pay for gas, or have hydro bills, and have my air cleaner and the like. That would be great, and to move in that direction, regardless of the climate change, is a good move for me personally, and it is worth a lot to me. But this is a case of what matters to Canadians, and that's on my list of things that matter to me, another reason I won't vote Conservative, and is clearly something that doesn't really matter to you.


what doesn't matter to me? Once again, you aren't being clear.
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Re: Harper would have to axe programs to reduce deficit

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The Green Barbarian wrote:
UnknownResident wrote:I think also another thing which we're losing sight of, is personally I would love to not pay for gas, or have hydro bills, and have my air cleaner and the like. That would be great, and to move in that direction, regardless of the climate change, is a good move for me personally, and it is worth a lot to me. But this is a case of what matters to Canadians, and that's on my list of things that matter to me, another reason I won't vote Conservative, and is clearly something that doesn't really matter to you.


what doesn't matter to me? Once again, you aren't being clear.



It was fairly clear that we're talking about the environment. It's also fairly clear that Harper (and because he thinks so, as do you) either doesn't care about the environment or doesn't believe in man-made climate change. The latter of which is fine, but to rule with an iron fist and disagree with the scientific community when he has no education on the matter is crazy.
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Re: Harper would have to axe programs to reduce deficit

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UnknownResident wrote:
This is just one more voice that's uneducated in the matter though. Honestly if it's between listening to you, or the large majority of people who study the subject, I'm probably going to choose them. .


ok - so what does it mean to "choose them"? Does that mean that you "believe" that AGW exists, or does it mean that you support the "solutions" no matter how damaging to our economy and no matter how many millions of people potentially are thrown out of work? Does it mean that by "choosing them", you support funnelling billions of dollars into the pockets of 3rd world dictators so that they can "combat climate change"? Do you support funnelling billions into uneconomic alternative energy sources like Solar and wind, so that the rest of Canada can suffer from having to pay out giant crippling subsidies to support these technologies, with zero reduction in CO2 production, much like Ontario, Denmark, Spain and Portugal are experiencing right now? Is that what you mean by "choose them"?? What do you mean? I am curious.

Perhpas you should read about how great Portugal is doing right now - they decided to "choose them" too - maybe you should move there and experience a CO2-free environment for yourself, and then also decide if you still want to "choose them".

http://ecotretas.blogspot.com/2011/04/d ... ctive.html

A Dark Economy - an inside perspective
Many of my international readers should know that Portugal is seeking a rescue package. The reason for the bailout? Strange as it may seem: a green economy that has gotten dark, so much darker... Portugal will be the ONLY country in the World, according to the IMF (check out Table 2.2), that will have a GDP negative growth in 2012! José Sócrates, Environment Minister between 1999 and 2002, and Prime Minister since 2005, is the person behind this tragedy. His green vision has brought Portugal some recognition amongst greenies, but mainly a dark future!

Almost everything imaginable in this Green promise has gone wrong. Murphy's law at its best:

Portugal was the first country with wave power in the world, at Aguçadoura; it broke down only two months later. Portugal has one of the biggest solar photovoltaic power stations in the World, at Amareleja, owned by Acciona, a Spanish company. The huge feed-in tariffs being paid for this solar energy is being sent to our neighbors...

Wind power has been a big bet. Big promises included green jobs, but the truth is that they are only a few thousands... The reality is that the more the wind blows, the poorer we get. This is true because wind feed-in tariffs are much higher than energy prices in the spot market.

With such a high share of wind energy, dam construction has started, so that they can be used for energy storage. A double cost, which would not be needed, if wind energy was not so big. But it doesn't stop here: gas power stations had to be paid for being in standby, rising even more the indirect costs of wind power.

Portugal has boasted that it exported electricity energy for the first time in 2010. The truth is that most of that energy was exported at zero cost, a strange concept with an easy explanation: when wind blows, especially at night, energy consumption is low; the same does occur also in Spain, so they don't need the energy. Spain exports it through France, and gets our excess energy for free. Once again, Portuguese consumers and taxpayers are subsidizing other richer countries...

It isn't no surprise that electricity prices are very high in Portugal. Despite slightly above the European mean value, the low income means that energy is comparably much more expensive in Portugal. And this is only half of the picture, as the KWh energy price accounts for only about 40% of the electricity bill, the rest being taxes and subsidies...

Gasoline and Diesel also have very high prices in Portugal, amongst the biggest in the World. The reason: multiple taxes and subsidies paid at the gas pump. All this has a great impact on the Economy, and is the main reason behind fuel tourism to Spain, where prices are much lower. In fact, they are so much lower, that near the border, people drive 50Km or more just to fill the tank!

Lately, things have gotten even worse. Sócrates is pushing for electric cars, but nothing in those cars is being made in Portugal. Once again, we are effectively paying for R&D being made somewhere else, without any advantage for the country. Despite being one of the countries with the highest lithium reserves in the World, no value is added in Portugal.

Portugal also has some well proven gas reserves. Despite that, they are not being explored, with tourism fears being invoked. My view is that Sócrates wouldn't go this way, as it is not green... And despite potential shale gas reserves being pointed out, no one talks about it in Portugal!

And I could continue. Talk about CO2 compensations sent to other countries, projects involving offshore wind or even more expensive solar energy. The truth is that the green promise has brought us a dark future. Remember this the next time someone tries to sell you a green economy...
LET'S GO BRANDON!

Justin Trudeau is a blight on our once great country.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Harper would have to axe programs to reduce deficit

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UnknownResident wrote:
It was fairly clear that we're talking about the environment. It's also fairly clear that Harper (and because he thinks so, as do you) either doesn't care about the environment or doesn't believe in man-made climate change. The latter of which is fine, but to rule with an iron fist and disagree with the scientific community when he has no education on the matter is crazy.


you are entitled to your opinion, but given how much Harper has done for the environment, I'd say your comment is "crazy", but that's my opinion.

Like many people on this issue, you seem to be unable to separate one thing - the belief that AGW exists - from the other - the proposed "solutions" to AGW. As I said in a previous post, these days if you aren't willing to follow the nine sacred tenents of the global warming crowd then you "don't care" about the environment or "you disagree with scientists". You can agree that AGW may exist, while disagreeing on the remedies, given how thoroughly idiotic and useless the proposed "solutions" to this problem that scientists think "may" exist are. But it would be more fun to debate it with you face to face.
LET'S GO BRANDON!

Justin Trudeau is a blight on our once great country.
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Re: Harper would have to axe programs to reduce deficit

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Not to mention of course that Canada produces only less than 2% of whatever emissions some conclude are contributing to global warming (thus other countries/jurisdictions produce the other 98% I would presume). I prefer to have a government that has the sense to focus on solutions in the places that are accused of producing the lion's share of the emissions, rather than shooting all Canadians in the economic foot over what amounts to peanuts. That's what the Conservatives are doing, and as I posted elsewhere are already making strides in doing practical things, rather than just sitting around talking about it like the Liberals and the NDP did for 12 years.

Besides, most of our pittance problems are claimed to be in the oil sands processes, and largely under the jurisdiction of Alberta. What better way to get something going in improving that situation than working directly with Alberta and the Oil Companies actually creating the problem to ensure they clean up their act?

So the international enviro's get freaked out because our government doesn't sit around yacking all day about "setting higher reduction targets" that are as big or bigger than everyone else's, and just playing with paper and "numbers". Big deal LOL. I prefer we focus our efforts internationally and on the 98% of the problem than waste a lot of time domestically and on 2% of the problem. That's what the Harper Government has been doing coming out of the Copenhagen conference and others, and with considerable success in my view. But still, with that now in focus, many of those those other guys are still mainly sitting around "just talking about it" and not buying in to Harper's insistence that they at least start DOING something about it like he is.

Nab
"He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still." - Lao-Tzu
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Re: Harper would have to axe programs to reduce deficit

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Precisely ... and I don't want governments here or elsewhere dictating to me and forcing me to do things to satisfy their remedies of my minute little portion of that bloody 2%. I don't want some idiot in Bolivia convincing the UN that little me here in Canada can't swat a bug or fine me for lighting my BBQ and scorching my hamburger. I refuse to lose any rights and the right to choose because some freak in some other part of the world thinks the sky is falling and therefore all rights must be forsaken in order to put that sky back in good health when we Canadians only contribute 2% to that falling sky - and I have yet to be 100% convinced any part of the sky is falling in the first place.
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Re: Harper would have to axe programs to reduce deficit

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grammafreddy wrote:Precisely ... and I don't want governments here or elsewhere dictating to me and forcing me to do things to satisfy their remedies of my minute little portion of that bloody 2%. I don't want some idiot in Bolivia convincing the UN that little me here in Canada can't swat a bug or fine me for lighting my BBQ and scorching my hamburger. I refuse to lose any rights and the right to choose because some freak in some other part of the world thinks the sky is falling and therefore all rights must be forsaken in order to put that sky back in good health when we Canadians only contribute 2% to that falling sky - and I have yet to be 100% convinced any part of the sky is falling in the first place.


Yeah, and if GF wants to shoot all the Buffalo - that's her right too!
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Re: Harper would have to axe programs to reduce deficit

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Bagotricks wrote:
grammafreddy wrote:Precisely ... and I don't want governments here or elsewhere dictating to me and forcing me to do things to satisfy their remedies of my minute little portion of that bloody 2%. I don't want some idiot in Bolivia convincing the UN that little me here in Canada can't swat a bug or fine me for lighting my BBQ and scorching my hamburger. I refuse to lose any rights and the right to choose because some freak in some other part of the world thinks the sky is falling and therefore all rights must be forsaken in order to put that sky back in good health when we Canadians only contribute 2% to that falling sky - and I have yet to be 100% convinced any part of the sky is falling in the first place.


Yeah, and if GF wants to shoot all the Buffalo - that's her right too!


:127:
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