Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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UnknownResident
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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Al Czervic wrote:While we can debate who throws the most (or least) amount of mud I will at least agree that Layton has actually run by far the best and most effective campaign so in that respect it should not come as a surprise to some that he is being rewarded in the polls as a result of that.



I'm not sure if it's been so much Layton's campaign, or if it's a lot of hatred towards the Cons and Libs and Bloc. Perhaps Layton is just benefiting from that, rather then actually running a good campaign. I'm not saying his campaign hasn't been good, but I think a lot of people don't like Harper, don't like Iggy, and don't like Duceppe.
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

Post by Al Czervic »

UnknownResident wrote:
Al Czervic wrote:While we can debate who throws the most (or least) amount of mud I will at least agree that Layton has actually run by far the best and most effective campaign so in that respect it should not come as a surprise to some that he is being rewarded in the polls as a result of that.



I'm not sure if it's been so much Layton's campaign, or if it's a lot of hatred towards the Cons and Libs and Bloc. Perhaps Layton is just benefiting from that, rather then actually running a good campaign. I'm not saying his campaign hasn't been good, but I think a lot of people don't like Harper, don't like Iggy, and don't like Duceppe.



And that is why I submit that Layton has done such a good job in his campaign. Layton has basically incorporated his “likeability” into almost every aspect of his campaign, which of course is in stark contrast to either Harper or Iggy who are not high in the personality department. In doing so Layton has made this campaign more of a personal popularity contest instead of an election on who will be the best leader to run the party.

Seriously now that Layton’s platform has been thoroughly debunked and dismissed as pure fiscal fantasy and even Layton makes basically no effort to even try to defend it, he instead just continues to be a nice, likeable guy with a fiscally flawed platform. It is a strategy that basically seems to be working for him.
Of course come late Monday evening, we will know for sure….
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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Come on Al, really?

While I agree everybody should know wrongdoings for all the party leaders, even you can't be so biased that you can't see that Layton is more credible than Ignatieff and especially Harper. Take a peek into the Harper thread and you'll discover just how much worse he is.
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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UnknownResident wrote:I'm not sure if it's been so much Layton's campaign, or if it's a lot of hatred towards the Cons and Libs and Bloc. Perhaps Layton is just benefiting from that, rather then actually running a good campaign. I'm not saying his campaign hasn't been good, but I think a lot of people don't like Harper, don't like Iggy, and don't like Duceppe.


You nailed it bang on UR.
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

Post by Al Czervic »

FreeRights wrote:Come on Al, really?

While I agree everybody should know wrongdoings for all the party leaders, even you can't be so biased that you can't see that Layton is more credible than Ignatieff and especially Harper. Take a peek into the Harper thread and you'll discover just how much worse he is.



There are actually some good things I can say about Layton however I can’t use the term “credibility” in the same sentence as someone who has a platform that is complete fiscal fantasy. Layton has ZERO credibility when it comes to economics or his fiscal fantasy of a platform.

Harper on the other hand certainly has his flaws, many I agree with. However his fiscal record and where Canada sits today cannot be disputed. This is the real reason why lefties have to resort to all kinds of nonsense and demonization against Harper because it is really all they have.


P.S. I have been on some of those other Harper bashing threads….critiquing Harper for how he sings Imagine and plays the piano or how some 400 lb “poet” thinks he understand politics is about the best these leftist loons can come up with. ....It's all pretty lame. You will note that this thread in contrast post REAL FACTS about what a fiscal fraud Layton is.
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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Al Czervic wrote:Seriously now that Layton’s platform has been thoroughly debunked and dismissed as pure fiscal fantasy and even Layton makes basically no effort to even try to defend it, he instead just continues to be a nice, likeable guy with a fiscally flawed platform. It is a strategy that basically seems to be working for him.
Of course come late Monday evening, we will know for sure….

There's an interesting article in today's Globe and Mail which suggests that many independent financial observors do not share the view that the NDP's campaign platform has been "thoroughly debunked and dismissed as pure fiscal fantasy". As a matter of fact, while an NDP led government would not be their first choice, they do not forsee the financial armegeddon that the Tories are predicting in the unlikely event the NDP form the next government.

I did refer to this article in another thread, but maybe it's more appropriate to reference it here instead.

Here are some of the quotes I'm referring to:

Tom Nakamura of AGF Investments, to Bloomberg is quoted as saying that an NDP victory
would create uncertainty. The global community isn’t used to thinking of a more left-leaning government.” But he added that the NDP would probably be held in check by “other voices in Parliament ... I don’t think it’s drastic.


Ed Devlin, Pacific Investment Management Co., to Bloomberg said
From a markets perspective, while it could create some volatility, I can’t see a resurgent NDP being relevant.


And Jack Spitz, National Bank of Canada, is quoted as telling Reuters
The polls are still suggesting a strong minority or possible majority by the Conservatives. Any meaningful move away from that could have an impact, but it’s unlikely to be long-lived. Canada still continues to be seen as an oasis of stable government in a democratic form.


Here's the link

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... le2002464/
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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Al Czervic wrote:Layton has ZERO credibility when it comes to economics or his fiscal fantasy of a platform.


Yes - that is the problem - he should fall in line with the preceeding governments budgets and fudge the numbers so that the faulty math only comes through after the plans are implemented

Where are these great trackrecords of the current gov't and their budgetary failings? don't really see why you are so proud of them and can turn your nose at the mere notion of some alternatives that a lot of Canadians are supporting.

i don't think there are very many average canadians that are feeling like they have a little more at the end of the day thanks to the conservatives and their financial policies.

The MAJORITY of Canadians thought that the liberals were the bees knees for over a decade and gave them full out majorities - since then things have changed to the point that the liberals are thought to be a dead man walking and the conservatives have been handed several MINORITIES and now the NDP of all parties is threatening Harpers dream of a majority - perhaps Harper has done a poor job illustrating his great success's and the benefits to the common man (even though it sounds like they should be glaringly obvious and anyone that can't see that must be a socialist fool)
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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Al Czervic wrote:Harper on the other hand certainly has his flaws, many I agree with. However his fiscal record and where Canada sits today cannot be disputed. This is the real reason why lefties have to resort to all kinds of nonsense and demonization against Harper because it is really all they have.



Well I've thoroughly debunked the myth that Harper has done much to make us strong in the recession. And what fiscal record does he have that's so good? Canada's largest surplus to Canada's largest deficit? See this is where the righties go astray... And I can hear the 'ifs' and 'buts' now. The fact is under the Harper government we have a record deficit, that's the facts. Harper's fiscal record is horrendous. And spare me the "if the NDP were in...." or "but if iggoytic had his way..." they didn't have it their way so there's really no point in trying to predict what would have happened. You can't know, you can guess and the righties are more then willing to, but it's just a guess from a partisan source which means zero to me.
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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Corneliousrooster wrote:i don't think there are very many average canadians that are feeling like they have a little more at the end of the day thanks to the conservatives and their financial policies.




I think that is a very astute comment and observation and I would submit that you are correct. Most Canadians do indeed continue to enjoy the “status quo” however what many Canadians do not realize is that in many industrialized countries around the world right now, they can only WISH for the status quo that we “hard done by” Canadians continue to enjoy.

Layton of course is doing the best job promising the world to everyone. Literally billions upon billions in increased spending based upon a cap and trade system that does not exist (and is not likely to) and expectations of increased revenues from increasing corporate taxes. Which of course depends upon the assumption that Corporations will not themselves take actions to mitigate those corporate tax increases which they most certainly would do.

When confronted with this evidence Layton has conceded that he would make “adjustments” if his fiscal fantasy does not occur, but of course he does not say what adjustments he would make. Somehow people see credibility in creating a phantom revenue stream and then being basically clueless as to what he would adjust when the magic money trees in Laytonland do not bear any fruit.

Harper by contrast has made spending commitments for the future only when the budget is again balanced. This is significant difference, unless of course you live in Laytonland where apparently anything is possible as long as you sound really, really sincere and act like you care when you say it. Maybe Layton should be up for a Juno award ?
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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UnknownResident wrote:Well I've thoroughly debunked the myth that Harper has done much to make us strong in the recession. And what fiscal record does he have that's so good? Canada's largest surplus to Canada's largest deficit? See this is where the righties go astray... .


This is where the lefties go astray, trying to re-write history. If Harper hadn't gone into deficit spending, we'd have been at the polls again within a year of the 2008 election. What you have is the product of a minority government. Your spin on actual historical events would only work if Harper had gone into deficit with a majority, as it stands it is just pure spin, and a giant load of BS you are trying to sell there UR. I thought you were a bit better than the garden variety anti-Harper nuts on this thread UR, but this post kind of ruined that for me.
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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UnknownResident wrote:Well I've thoroughly debunked the myth that Harper has done much to make us strong in the recession. And what fiscal record does he have that's so good? Canada's largest surplus to Canada's largest deficit? See this is where the righties go astray...



It’s not that righties go “astray” at this point it is more of a case that we are dumfounded that leftists seem to rather conveniently forget that it was indeed the likes of Layton and Iggy that DEMANED increased spending as a condition of their supporting the Harper budgets.

What really boogles at least my mind is that some lefties then have the gall to actually accuse Harper of playing the “my way of the highway” game for not accommodating leftists demands when once again they forget that it was indeed Harper who INCREASED stimulus spending in order to meet the demands of Layton and Iggy who made such threats as a condition of support.

Further leftists also seem to forget that in the past Layton actually threatened to vote down Conservative budgets before even having a clue as to what was in them. Further it was only one month ago that Layton was demanding that Harper INCREASE spending in his most recent budget. I am not certain how ANY lefty can possibly complain about Harper’s spending when it was a) forced by leftists leaders and b) what leader is proposing the biggest spending increases in this campaign? It is Layton.

Either leftists are complete idiots with short terms memory loss, or they just choose to blame Harper for anything and everything under the sun simply because they are too clueless to become more informed on what really happened. It’s not unlike some leftist loons on theses forums who FASLELY claim we are in an election right now because Harpers budget was voted down when in reality this election is all about Harper being declared as “misleading” Parliament…Harper was brought down before he even had a chance to table his budget. Once again the lefties get it wrong. But by the way, it’s OK when Jack Layton rips off tax payers. It’s OK that he and his wife share expenses but still double bill over one million in expenses a year travelling in effect the same distance between Kelowna and Vancouver as is Toronto to Ottawa as Layton and his MP spouse do. The ongoing inaccuracies and hypocrisy of the leftists is staggering.
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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Al Czervic wrote:
FreeRights wrote:Come on Al, really?

While I agree everybody should know wrongdoings for all the party leaders, even you can't be so biased that you can't see that Layton is more credible than Ignatieff and especially Harper. Take a peek into the Harper thread and you'll discover just how much worse he is.



There are actually some good things I can say about Layton however I can’t use the term “credibility” in the same sentence as someone who has a platform that is complete fiscal fantasy. Layton has ZERO credibility when it comes to economics or his fiscal fantasy of a platform.

Harper on the other hand certainly has his flaws, many I agree with. However his fiscal record and where Canada sits today cannot be disputed. This is the real reason why lefties have to resort to all kinds of nonsense and demonization against Harper because it is really all they have.


P.S. I have been on some of those other Harper bashing threads….critiquing Harper for how he sings Imagine and plays the piano or how some 400 lb “poet” thinks he understand politics is about the best these leftist loons can come up with. ....It's all pretty lame. You will note that this thread in contrast post REAL FACTS about what a fiscal fraud Layton is.


Your "facts" are articles where you edit them to make them sound worse than they are, and hope that people don't read the original article.

As per Layton's economic platform, I disagree with you. Most of his fiscal platform is identical to that of the Liberals, and is generally sound.

Finally, does this left wing vs right wing BS have to creep it's way into every one of your posts? Those are crude and inaccurate generalizations of those criticizing any Party leader - someone says anything negative about Harper, you call him a leftist, etc. It's tired and worn, so let's cut the crap.
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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Corneliousrooster wrote:
Al Czervic wrote:Layton has ZERO credibility when it comes to economics or his fiscal fantasy of a platform.


Yes - that is the problem - he should fall in line with the preceeding governments budgets and fudge the numbers so that the faulty math only comes through after the plans are implemented

Where are these great trackrecords of the current gov't and their budgetary failings? don't really see why you are so proud of them and can turn your nose at the mere notion of some alternatives that a lot of Canadians are supporting.

i don't think there are very many average canadians that are feeling like they have a little more at the end of the day thanks to the conservatives and their financial policies.

The MAJORITY of Canadians thought that the liberals were the bees knees for over a decade and gave them full out majorities - since then things have changed to the point that the liberals are thought to be a dead man walking and the conservatives have been handed several MINORITIES and now the NDP of all parties is threatening Harpers dream of a majority - perhaps Harper has done a poor job illustrating his great success's and the benefits to the common man (even though it sounds like they should be glaringly obvious and anyone that can't see that must be a socialist fool)

Rubbish. There are many people like me in similar shoes who face this reality:
I am making less money now than I have in a decade, the cost of living has gone up dramatically and I am paying more taxes than I ever have before! That is success?
Harper has had 5 years to accomplish something and what has he done? Nothing. Canada was projected to gain 20,000 jobs in February but actually lost 1500! Lots of people are tired of seeing their wages go down, cost of living and taxes go up while big business makes record earnings and gets a free ride via tax breaks. Who's sucking who's teat?
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

Post by Al Czervic »

FreeRights wrote:Your "facts" are articles where you edit them to make them sound worse than they are, and hope that people don't read the original article.

As per Layton's economic platform, I disagree with you. Most of his fiscal platform is identical to that of the Liberals, and is generally sound.

Finally, does this left wing vs right wing BS have to creep it's way into every one of your posts? Those are crude and inaccurate generalizations of those criticizing any Party leader - someone says anything negative about Harper, you call him a leftist, etc. It's tired and worn, so let's cut the crap.



Sorry but I posted the link to everyone of the facts that I posted about Jack Layton precisely so that people WOULD take the time to read them. I have actually had a few people even PM to say thanks because they were completely unaware of some of the Layton BS. I have also made it clear that Layton did NOTHING illegal….I merely posted the facts about what he did do. My apologies if the truth about Layton offends you.
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Re: Jack Layton...Professional snake oil salesman…

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Fritzthecat wrote:[Rubbish. There are many people like me in similar shoes who face this reality:
I am making less money now than I have in a decade, the cost of living has gone up dramatically and I am paying more taxes than I ever have before! That is success?
Harper has had 5 years to accomplish something and what has he done? Nothing. Canada was projected to gain 20,000 jobs in February but actually lost 1500! Lots of people are tired of seeing their wages go down, cost of living and taxes go up while big business makes record earnings and gets a free ride via tax breaks. Who's sucking who's teat?



Not to use facts over a good rant but Canada’s National employment rate rose this year over this time last year. Or put another way, MORE people are working today than they were one year ago. Perhaps you would rather be in one of those other countries that has a 10% unemployment rate or higher? Because Layton’s fiscal fantasy platform is taken straight from tax and spend polices that have basically bankrupt most other countries and only succeeding in driving people out of work. If you think you are paying more in tax today what do you think another $ 70 billion in new Jack Layton spending would do to your tax bill ? Or do you seriously believe that all of that money will come from “cap and trade”, tax on carbon, and increased corporate taxes ?
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