The Results .......

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Prestige Mike
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Re: The Results .......

Post by Prestige Mike »

This long gun registry thing seems to be the most popular topic among conservatives. Seems odd. Isn't there more important issues going on right now?
NAB
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Re: The Results .......

Post by NAB »

Prestige Mike wrote:This long gun registry thing seems to be the most popular topic among conservatives. Seems odd. Isn't there more important issues going on right now?


Yes, getting the budget in place. The long gun registry can be now eliminated during coffee break LOL.

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Tacklewasher
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Re: The Results .......

Post by Tacklewasher »

NAB wrote:
Prestige Mike wrote:This long gun registry thing seems to be the most popular topic among conservatives. Seems odd. Isn't there more important issues going on right now?


Yes, getting the budget in place. The long gun registry can be now eliminated during coffee break LOL.

Nab


I like that. :dyinglaughing:
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Re: The Results .......

Post by NAB »

What the Liberal candidates have learned in this election (as well as the previous one), is if you hitch your cart to a donkey, don't expect the performance of a racehorse ;-)

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Glacier
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Re: The Results .......

Post by Glacier »

I'd say that this election was a big win for the Right, but an even bigger win for the Left. Throughout Canadian history we've alternated between a right leaning party and a centrist party, so a Conservative majority is nothing new.

Now the rise of the NDP is something new. I would not be surprised if Jack Layton's long running goal of relegating the Liberal party to fringe status has come to fruition (for a while, anyway).

So to you lefties on here, I know it's been tough go in the 21st Century so far with the decimation of the BC NDP over the past decade, but take heart because their cousins could form the national government sooner rather than later.
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steven lloyd
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Re: The Results .......

Post by steven lloyd »

Glacier wrote: So to you lefties on here, I know it's been tough go in the 21st Century so far with the decimation of the BC NDP over the past decade, but take heart because their cousins could form the national government sooner rather than later.

I wouldn't make any presumptions on the results of our next provincial election either. With a Conservative majority in power federally, it has become a great deal safer for many people to vote left at the provincial level - and it's not like the BC Liberals haven't given many people cause to consider doing just that. I think there are still interesting times ahead politically.
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Re: The Results .......

Post by Urbane »

    Glacier wrote:I'd say that this election was a big win for the Right, but an even bigger win for the Left. Throughout Canadian history we've alternated between a right leaning party and a centrist party, so a Conservative majority is nothing new.

    Now the rise of the NDP is something new. I would not be surprised if Jack Layton's long running goal of relegating the Liberal party to fringe status has come to fruition (for a while, anyway).

    So to you lefties on here, I know it's been tough go in the 21st Century so far with the decimation of the BC NDP over the past decade, but take heart because their cousins could form the national government sooner rather than later.
Some years ago Mulroney said that no socially conservative party would for the government in Canada and Harper learned that lesson. He has governed and will continue to govern from the centre and that's why one commentator has dubbed the Conservatives "the new Liberal Party." Right now the NDP is too far away from the centre to form the government. Jack-o-mania and squeezed out Liberal and Bloc parties got them to this new height but to build on that they would definitely have to move toward the centre. You can't be taken seriously as a contender to form the government when you propose spending $70 billion on new programs while having a totally unrealistic way of coming up with the money. Also, the NDP will be on a tightrope trying to balance the demands from its Quebec caucus members and those from English Canada. It's not going to be easy. I think we may well have seen a flash in the pan for the NDP and a more realistic seat total will be evident 4-5 years from now when the next election is held.
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quietlywatching84
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Re: The Results .......

Post by quietlywatching84 »

Harper has a tight road to walk. I don't think yesterday's election demonstrates much of a shift in political values. I think the voting public for the most part has this same values they had ten years ago. What I have seen however is a shift in the state of the parties. The conservatives for one have veered left towards a centrist position. Just this election one of Harper's key promises was to ensure funds for healthcare, strong fiscal policy and sovereignty. That almost mirrors what could be expected from the Liberal brand during the 90s. However this doesn't give any room for Harper to veer back right unless he wishes to give his opponents any sort of advantage.

I see the NDP gains having little to go with any tangible shift in the country also. I merely think that the centrist vote split. Left leaning centrists moved towards the NDP and right leaning centrists moved to the Conservatives (now that they appear to have a much more centrist platform).

I wouldn't count the Liberals out yet either. Quite frankly the parties history goes back to before anybody (and there are a lot of ripened folk on here) on this forum was born. Brand power is huge and centrist ideology has a long history in Canada. There are a lot of Liberal voters who during the next while are going to be finding the NDP "a bit too left" and the Conservatives a bit "too right". The secret sauce right now is a race to the center. Either the NDP has to move right, the Conservatives need to veer just a bit more left or the Liberals need to rebuild the classic brand.
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Re: The Results .......

Post by Rwede »

Glacier wrote:I'd say that this election was a big win for the Right, but an even bigger win for the Left. Throughout Canadian history we've alternated between a right leaning party and a centrist party, so a Conservative majority is nothing new.

Now the rise of the NDP is something new. I would not be surprised if Jack Layton's long running goal of relegating the Liberal party to fringe status has come to fruition (for a while, anyway).

So to you lefties on here, I know it's been tough go in the 21st Century so far with the decimation of the BC NDP over the past decade, but take heart because their cousins could form the national government sooner rather than later.



I don't see it that way. Taliban Jack got 60 of 65 new seats in Quebec, as voters there tossed the ineffective Bloc. His "orange crush" is nothing more than a protest vote in one province that is typically left leaning anyway (the Bloc is purely leftist). How does gaining 5 seats from left-leaners in the rest of Canada, which may have been Liberal seats in the first place, equate to the "rise of the NDP?"

I tend to look at Mr Harper's gain of 24 seats from the left in Canada (the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc are all leftist parties) as a clear indication that people are moving en masse to the right. With only one right wing party in Canada, and that party gaining 17% more seats from the left in a 3 year period, Canada is firmly leaving socialism behind and moving to conservatism.
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Re: The Results .......

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Re: The Results .......

Post by Glacier »


Canadians were not cheated out of anything. Steven Harper won with 75.08% of the vote. Ron Cannon won with 57.4%, Colon Mayes with 55.44%, Dan Albass with 53.99%, and Alex Atamanenko with 50.86% of the vote. Elizabeth May did not win with a majority, but she still won fair and square. That's how the parliamentarian system works. No voting system is perfect because of Arrow's Paradox, so changing our system would not improve the fairness.
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Lady tehMa
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Re: The Results .......

Post by Lady tehMa »

It is funny, really.

Election is announced. Rhetoric ensues. Election happens. Voters whose canditate was chose usually become somewhat smug (either vocally or quietly). Those whose candidate was not chosen either sulk quietly or howl like scalded cats.

And it doesn't matter who wins or loses, the pattern is the same. :spinball:
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Re: The Results .......

Post by Al Czervic »

quietlywatching84 wrote:Harper has a tight road to walk. I don't think yesterday's election demonstrates much of a shift in political values. I think the voting public for the most part has this same values they had ten years ago. What I have seen however is a shift in the state of the parties. The conservatives for one have veered left towards a centrist position. Just this election one of Harper's key promises was to ensure funds for healthcare, strong fiscal policy and sovereignty. That almost mirrors what could be expected from the Liberal brand during the 90s. However this doesn't give any room for Harper to veer back right unless he wishes to give his opponents any sort of advantage.

I see the NDP gains having little to go with any tangible shift in the country also. I merely think that the centrist vote split. Left leaning centrists moved towards the NDP and right leaning centrists moved to the Conservatives (now that they appear to have a much more centrist platform).

I wouldn't count the Liberals out yet either. Quite frankly the parties history goes back to before anybody (and there are a lot of ripened folk on here) on this forum was born. Brand power is huge and centrist ideology has a long history in Canada. There are a lot of Liberal voters who during the next while are going to be finding the NDP "a bit too left" and the Conservatives a bit "too right". The secret sauce right now is a race to the center. Either the NDP has to move right, the Conservatives need to veer just a bit more left or the Liberals need to rebuild the classic brand.



Well said.
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Al Czervic
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Re: The Results .......

Post by Al Czervic »

RichardWede wrote:
Glacier wrote:I'd say that this election was a big win for the Right, but an even bigger win for the Left. Throughout Canadian history we've alternated between a right leaning party and a centrist party, so a Conservative majority is nothing new.

Now the rise of the NDP is something new. I would not be surprised if Jack Layton's long running goal of relegating the Liberal party to fringe status has come to fruition (for a while, anyway).

So to you lefties on here, I know it's been tough go in the 21st Century so far with the decimation of the BC NDP over the past decade, but take heart because their cousins could form the national government sooner rather than later.



I don't see it that way. Taliban Jack got 60 of 65 new seats in Quebec, as voters there tossed the ineffective Bloc. His "orange crush" is nothing more than a protest vote in one province that is typically left leaning anyway (the Bloc is purely leftist). How does gaining 5 seats from left-leaners in the rest of Canada, which may have been Liberal seats in the first place, equate to the "rise of the NDP?"

I tend to look at Mr Harper's gain of 24 seats from the left in Canada (the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc are all leftist parties) as a clear indication that people are moving en masse to the right. With only one right wing party in Canada, and that party gaining 17% more seats from the left in a 3 year period, Canada is firmly leaving socialism behind and moving to conservatism.



I think on many levels this IS a historic victory for the NDP in the sense that this is..

a) The first time in Canadian history the NDP WILL be the official opposition
b) The largest amount of seats in the NDP’s history
c) With the Quebec victories the NDP can boast about being a truly National party.

Having said all of that it is interesting to note that if you exclude the seats in Quebec, Jack Layton has fewer NDP seats all across Canada then Ed Broadbent did so that must also be taken into context.

It must also be recognized that previously Jack Layton had significance because his voted mattered in a minority government in a way that it has never mattered before for the NDP. Now Jack Layton’s vote, threats, and saber rattling do not mean squat. It is kind of screwy how you can massively increase your seat count but ultimately end up with less influence and power in the process.

Obviously we must also recognize that Jack Layton will have his hands full with Quebec and a bunch of kids for NDP MP’s, although I think that will be a role that Layton will really gravitate too and do well at.

All in all I am going to agree with Glacier I think this was a huge victory for the NDP and Jack Layton, but it is victory that must be taken into context.
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Urbane
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Re: The Results .......

Post by Urbane »

A few thoughts on the winners and the losers . . .

Jack Layton "won" something on Monday night but he also lost a lot. His influence in Parliament will be much less than it was before he and the opposition leaders forced this election. Ironic but true.

I was impressed with Gilles Duceppe on election night. He congratulated Stephen Harper and when his supporters started to boo he put up his hand and stopped them.

I was not impressed with Jack Layton on election night. He congratulated Stephen Harper and when his supporters started to boo he didn't do anything to stop them.

I've always thought that John Turner was the most graceful loser I've ever seen. He conceded and said that "the people have spoken and the people are always right." Others could learn from him. There are sore losers on this forum now who are complaining about our electoral system even though everyone knew the rules in advance and even though parties on the left have often benefitted from the same system. The people cast their votes on Monday and the Conservatives won fair and square so there's no point in wallowing in sour grapes.

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