Shepherd seeking third term as mayor

[Rwede]

You will find an old boys club and a old Gray mayor who saw the lost of Central Park Golf so the Callahan's could build a mail.

That mall provides at least a thousand jobs for the people in Kelowna. Central Park Golf - 30 perhaps?

Do we need another golf course or do we need thousands of jobs?

[Mtn Biker]

You will find an old boys club and a old Gray mayor who saw the lost of Central Park Golf so the Callahan's could build a mail.

That mall provides at least a thousand jobs for the people in Kelowna. Central Park Golf - 30 perhaps?

Do we need another golf course or do we need thousands of jobs?

Ya so what. They could have put those businesses in another location, rather than at the bottleneck of Hwy 97 and 33 to create massive traffic congestion, take up more park space for concrete, and they could have put them on Springfield across from Orchard Park - that was offered too and the province would have released this land from the ALR, but the Callahan's didn't own that property. No central park land deal was between Callahan and Mayor Stewart, competed by Gray for their buddies, all for their profits and our loss of green space.

The fact the city could have that land for peanuts and provided a municipal golf course like so many other cities in Canada, would have been something the city could do for their citizens, but not in the name of business and how the real deals in this town worked with the previous two mayors.

But carry on Dick, I am all ears.

[Rwede]

Again, how many golf courses do we need?

And who would fund the operation and development of Central Park?

Who would fund the development of the Springfield property?

Lots of good ideas, but not much thought put into the cost to taxpayers.

[Mtn Biker]

Again, how many golf courses do we need?

And who would fund the operation and development of Central Park?

Who would fund the development of the Springfield property?

Lots of good ideas, but not much thought put into the cost to taxpayers.

Ok Dick, good questions. First, all golf courses in Kelown are PRIVATE land and ownership, this would be a Municipal like 500 others in Canada. The course already existed, generated considerable profit, paid taxes as do the current tenants, it was already a going concern.

The Springfield property would be no different than what happened at Central Park - private land sold to large national developer to build concrete shopping area. No different, just different land owner (not a Callahan) but the city and Mayor didn't pursue that option. Would have removed significant traffic from the Hwy.

You tell me how the taxpayer paid for the current property at Central Park - they didn't - it's private, but I'll bet there were concessions made by the current council to fast track the process - so how does it affect taxpayers? If you mean tax revenue stream lost from no commericial development at Central Park . . . than that would have be replaced by where ever they did put it.

[Rwede]

Again, how many golf courses do we need?

And who would fund the operation and development of Central Park?

Who would fund the development of the Springfield property?

Lots of good ideas, but not much thought put into the cost to taxpayers.

Ok Dick, good questions. First, all golf courses in Kelown are PRIVATE land and ownership, this would be a Municipal like 500 others in Canada. The course already existed, generated considerable profit, paid taxes as do the current tenants, it was already a going concern.

The Springfield property would be no different than what happened at Central Park - private land sold to large national developer to build concrete shopping area. No different, just different land owner (not a Callahan) but the city and Mayor didn't pursue that option. Would have removed significant traffic from the Hwy.

You tell me how the taxpayer paid for the current property at Central Park - they didn't - it's private, but I'll bet there were concessions made by the current council to fast track the process - so how does it affect taxpayers? If you mean tax revenue stream lost from no commericial development at Central Park . . . than that would have be replaced by where ever they did put it.

How do you know Central Park golf course generated considerable profit? If it did, why was it abandoned? Do you have their most recent financial statements from which you can give me operating margins, overhead percentages, EBITDA, current ratio, and net cash flow?

The Callahans didn't become successful businessmen by giving away vast parcels of land for municipal golf courses. The Callahans have also been successful because they are not afraid to hold properties until the right offer comes along. I wager this would not be a cash-strapped city looking for a smokin' deal for a municipal golf course.

[Mtn Biker]

Again, how many golf courses do we need?

And who would fund the operation and development of Central Park?

Who would fund the development of the Springfield property?

Lots of good ideas, but not much thought put into the cost to taxpayers.

Ok Dick, good questions. First, all golf courses in Kelown are PRIVATE land and ownership, this would be a Municipal like 500 others in Canada. The course already existed, generated considerable profit, paid taxes as do the current tenants, it was already a going concern.

The Springfield property would be no different than what happened at Central Park - private land sold to large national developer to build concrete shopping area. No different, just different land owner (not a Callahan) but the city and Mayor didn't pursue that option. Would have removed significant traffic from the Hwy.

You tell me how the taxpayer paid for the current property at Central Park - they didn't - it's private, but I'll bet there were concessions made by the current council to fast track the process - so how does it affect taxpayers? If you mean tax revenue stream lost from no commericial development at Central Park . . . than that would have be replaced by where ever they did put it.

How do you know Central Park golf course generated considerable profit? If it did, why was it abandoned? Do you have their most recent financial statements from which you can give me operating margins, overhead percentages, EBITDA, current ratio, and net cash flow?

The Callahans didn't become successful businessmen by giving away vast parcels of land for municipal golf courses. The Callahans have also been successful because they are not afraid to hold properties until the right offer comes along. I wager this would not be a cash-strapped city looking for a smokin' deal for a municipal golf course.

OK Dick, here's the skinny on Central Park. Back in 1990 (or there about) the owners offered it to the city for $.50 on the dollar if it would remain a municipal course. The city and then Mayor Stuart passed, because Stuart knew the Callahans were waiting in the wings to offer and pay the owner the current land value of which they did. Then they (Callahans) ran it under contact for the next 6 years until they could get all the rezoning through to turn into what we see now. The council of the day had an opportunity to grab something for far less than what it was worth and then allow it to remain a green space and munny for the city. I know, I was at the council meetings when they refused to purchase it. It made sense to the masses at the time, it just didn't work for the Callahans who funded their buddy Mayor Stuart and so it didn't come about. Furthermore, I know the course generated a profit because I was there for the last 6 years and saw the books. But as for your other BS stats, sorry I am not an accountant, but I am not surprised by your "I know more than everyone comments", Dick.

[Rwede]

So really, you don't know anything about the finances then. Some companies can show a profit but are unable to pay their bills because of negative cash flows, or are in a covenant bind because their current ratio is unacceptable to the bank. That's something you admittedly know nothing about, and you are therefore unable to offer a valid opinion about the financial health of the golf course, which is related far more to the items I asked about than to the "bottom line" that you profess to know.

And, thanks for revealing your ulterior motives: you're *bleep* that you lost your job at the golf course when it was sold and put to a different use, and for that you're blaming a mayor who had one vote in 9 to approve the land use change.

It makes a lot of sense now.

[Mtn Biker]

*removed/personal attack/Jo*

[Mtn Biker]

*removed/personal attack/Jo*

So the mods didn't like my last approach. Go figure. That said let me try again. You sir, have a gift of restating what someone says in your own words and twisting their meaning to support your arguement and putting words in people's mouths. Nothing you say above is remotely close to the reality of the situation. Nor does Castanet allow me to post about what I think about this . . . tried but got deleted for personal attack . . . how I wish it was not so because a few verbal jabs seems appropriate response to your comments.

[Bestside]

*removed/personal attack/Jo*

So the mods didn't like my last approach. Go figure. That said let me try again. You sir, have a gift of restating what someone says in your own words and twisting their meaning to support your arguement and putting words in people's mouths. Nothing you say above is remotely close to the reality of the situation. Nor does Castanet allow me to post about what I think about this . . . tried but got deleted for personal attack . . . how I wish it was not so because a few verbal jabs seems appropriate response to your comments.

Except for some sarcasm and an invite I think your comment was appropriate. I would have liked to see it within the rules.
I enjoy your posts.

[Loed]

*removed/personal attack/Jo*

So the mods didn't like my last approach. Go figure. That said let me try again. You sir, have a gift of restating what someone says in your own words and twisting their meaning to support your arguement and putting words in people's mouths. Nothing you say above is remotely close to the reality of the situation. Nor does Castanet allow me to post about what I think about this . . . tried but got deleted for personal attack . . . how I wish it was not so because a few verbal jabs seems appropriate response to your comments.

You'll find "Dick" tends to do that... A lot... Just ignore him for the most part, or talk to him if you feel like some pointless back and forth.

[Mtn Biker]

*removed/personal attack/Jo*

So the mods didn't like my last approach. Go figure. That said let me try again. You sir, have a gift of restating what someone says in your own words and twisting their meaning to support your arguement and putting words in people's mouths. Nothing you say above is remotely close to the reality of the situation. Nor does Castanet allow me to post about what I think about this . . . tried but got deleted for personal attack . . . how I wish it was not so because a few verbal jabs seems appropriate response to your comments.

You'll find "Dick" tends to do that... A lot... Just ignore him for the most part, or talk to him if you feel like some pointless back and forth.

Thx Bestside, Loed . . . I do find Dick annoying to the max. Argue the points made, do not reword, re-interpret, and re-send with your own meaning stating it must be what I meant. The old saying about assumptions comes to mind and I just can't go around calling some an *bleep* under that cliché, even if they are superior at being one.

Central Park had a lot of value to the city and citizens, and what happen could have be avoided and that fact it did is a lesson for future generations . . . but not for the Old Boy's Mayor Stuart and his protégé Wally "every day is" Gray . . .

[mr barrymor]

Thanks folks. A great discussion and correct to my knowledge. I wondered at the time why the city did what it did about the golf course. I do wish that Walter would just quit. If he is elected he will simply be a puppet under control of who elected him.