UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange.org

BoyWondering

UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange.org

Post by BoyWondering »

This organization has posted a website http://www.fourchange.org with the following message:

FourChange.org - To Get Kelowna Working

The past 6 years have seen delay & dysfunction at City Hall. Decisions are postponed, plans delayed, the talk goes on... while a slow economy affects us all. We want Council to work together and we need leadership. It’s time for ordinary people to step forward and speak for a new direction. FourChange.org is a non-profit, broad group of regular citizens who are concerned about the current direction of city council.

We believe in four principles:
Greater leadership on council
More effective decision making
Better teamwork throughout our city
Focus on the big picture - not pet projects
We support four incumbents. Robert Hobson, Andre Blanleil, Luke Stack, and Graeme James. These four are experienced, effective, and share our values.
We will support four new strong candidates for council. We’ll say why and share their resumes. This is our mandate and explains our name, FourChange.org.
If you believe in this cause, please consider joining us. We’re grass-roots and an official Campaign Organization under municipal election rules. To help get the word out, we’ll need donations, if you see fit. (More than $100 requires filing of names w/ Chief Electoral Officer).


They suggest joining them if you agree with their principles and yet the website has no contact information. They are also quick to point out that keeping your donation below $100 means that your name does not get published via the Chief Electoral Officer. I can only assume that they are directly approaching people they believe will support them and don't want to attract attention from people who may be critical of them.

I have no problem with people openly supporting a slate of candidates and helping them get elected: however, it seems that this group wants to influence the election through stealth rather than being open about who they are and what you are for, not what they're against.

So let's have a little honesty FourChange:

  • Who are you and what organizations / companies are you affiliated with?
  • What are the specific examples of the problems you see with the current council and its actions?
  • What do you stand for?
  • How will you expect your councillors to act and what will you expect them to do?

I realize honesty is a rare commodity in today's politics so I'm not expecting a response from these folks. It will be up to each of us to watch and listen carefully to what FourChange is up to. I'd also be interested to know what they mean by:

We’re grass-roots and an official Campaign Organization under municipal election rules.


Does anyone have any insight into what 'an official Campaign Organization' means and why it's membership can remain anonymous?
Last edited by BoyWondering on Sep 15th, 2011, 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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grammafreddy
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Re: An "Official Campaign Organization" FourChange.org

Post by grammafreddy »

Judging solely by who they are throwing their support behind, I would say this group is a pro-development bunch and are more than likely the ones behind Walter Grey and perhaps Zimmerman.

These will be the one pee'd off about the voting down of the CD21 proposal more than anything.

I have some things bookmarked and will find them and post the links.

I also think these folks haven't figured out yet that Lawrence and Leon look the way the do is because the landowners there don't like or can't afford to do what the pro-development people want and they don't want to sell out to the big development corporations so that they can gain the land mass they need to build their towers. But that's just a guess on my part. If I am right, this group "FourChange", has no interest in the people who pay taxes here - they want high-rise development on OUR lakeshore.
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Re: An "Official Campaign Organization" FourChange.org

Post by forumdoug »

I'm not even certain if this is the organization that believes in a policy of civic growth (as opposed to 'non-growth') touted as being headed by the owner of the SameSun Hostel. In The Daily Courier today, it was noted that the owner of Competition Glass, David Langton, and Castanet Media sole shareholder & the former owner of Silk FM Broadcasting and Silk Internet, Nick Frost, are behind this group. I know you're a huge fan of Castanet so I was wondering your thoughts on this? I like the fact that they aren't an official "elector organization" either but rather, an umbrella group seeking to endorse, perhaps finance and advertise for the candidates that share their philosophy. They might even be able to benefit from Castanet Media providing free or discounted ad space, which would be solely within their rights to do so long as that directive is given to the advertising department of Castanet only and in no way influences the editorial coverage. Perhaps Competition Glass could plug this group and similar-minded candidates in their radio ads?

If indeed we have two such groups representing this philosophy, then clearly there is a problem with the current Mayor and Council's overall strategic direction they are taking the City of Kelowna and directing to City staff.

It appears the proverbial 'winds of change' may be afoot here once again. A polar opposite policy of civic 'non-growth' was at play in 2005 and brought a new Mayor and several new Councillors. It was fruitful and refreshing at the time as, admittedly, the Council and City were perhaps moving a bit too aggressively or maybe just needed a change. After six years, it's clearly time for a major change.

Kudos to Messrs. Gray, Zimmermann, Sanderson as well as incumbents Blanleil and James for putting their names forward. I am also pleased to see Coun. Gran is seeking a return to Council. I must admit, when she was first elected, I thought she was just another old 'fuddy duddy' with old-school policies, ideas & beliefs but in her time, she actually showed that she did have a social conscience but also a focus on moving the City forward, which is more than I can say for Ms. Reid-Nagy-or-whatever-I'm-calling-my-self-important-self-today or Mr. Hodge. The latter two are clearly nothing more than just municipal welfare cheque recipients. ;)

Cheers,
Doug
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Re: An "Official Campaign Organization" FourChange.org

Post by staples2 »

And here I was thinking Gray, Gran, Blanleil, James, Sanderson, and Zimmerman had very little to offer other than the CD-21 and other ill-planned development through the city- no forethought is a truly wonderful thing. And I'm not sure how else to put it other than you're just wrong about those on council who cover other parts of the 'spectrum'- particularly those more in the middle- where development is one consideration for the community, and one that requires incredible planning- it's not about 'no growth', it's about 'smart growth'- something Gray and crew have never been about. I'm also not really sure why you keep trying to make fun of Angela's last name- I have no idea what relevance that has to anything.
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Re: An "Official Campaign Organization" FourChange.org

Post by forumdoug »

staples2 wrote:And here I was thinking Gray, Gran, Blanleil, James, Sanderson, and Zimmerman had very little to offer other than the CD-21 and other ill-planned development through the city- no forethought is a truly wonderful thing. And I'm not sure how else to put it other than you're just wrong about those on council who cover other parts of the 'spectrum'- particularly those more in the middle- where development is one consideration for the community, and one that requires incredible planning- it's not about 'no growth', it's about 'smart growth'- something Gray and crew have never been about. I'm also not really sure why you keep trying to make fun of Angela's last name- I have no idea what relevance that has to anything.


Absolutely, we're in agreement there needs to be growth. I am in favour of 'smart growth' as well. The fact is, certain Council members, such as Ms. Shepherd, did complete 180 degree flip-flops on the proposed CD-21 development zone idea, something City staff were wholly in favour of. Doing so was a complete slap in the face not only to the developer who agreed to finance the development plan but also to City staff who worked on developing that plan. To think Ms. Shepherd prides herself on supporting staff...yeah, right! The problem is, we haven't even had any growth, particularly downtown.

As for Ms. Reid-Nagy-or-whatever-she's-calling-herself-today seems afraid to somehow "give up" her maiden name because is afraid she will somehow lose her "name recognition", thinking she's all self-important. If she was really elected on merits, people will know who she is regardless of her name. It's not like her first name is changing.

Cheers,
Doug
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Re: An "Official Campaign Organization" FourChange.org

Post by grammafreddy »

There is a website, MoveKelownaForward.com, which has Kevin Dreger as one of the admins. If I am not mistaken, he is with the band, Fields of Green, but I don't follow the music scene here so don't know that for sure. The website has been largely inactive for some time now but is still up. It's a forum, just like CNet is.

Also with MKF is John Skrotzki, a co-founder of the site and Duane T (?), who may be connected to Phil Milroy's development company.

Am still trying to find that pro-development group made up of "influential citizens". Will post it when I find it. They supported Milroy's plans big time. I may have posted the link to them or info on them in the CD21 thread, but that's a lot of looking.


And ........... forumdoug ... you'll have to forgive me if I don't cry rivers over your pro-CD21 and pro-big development buddies. I have no use for one thought, one platform yahoos, no matter who they are or how influential they THINK they are. They are running on a platform of sour grapes and are only worth spitting out. They taste terrible!
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Re: An "Official Campaign Organization" FourChange.org

Post by grammafreddy »

forumdoug wrote:
staples2 wrote:And here I was thinking Gray, Gran, Blanleil, James, Sanderson, and Zimmerman had very little to offer other than the CD-21 and other ill-planned development through the city- no forethought is a truly wonderful thing. And I'm not sure how else to put it other than you're just wrong about those on council who cover other parts of the 'spectrum'- particularly those more in the middle- where development is one consideration for the community, and one that requires incredible planning- it's not about 'no growth', it's about 'smart growth'- something Gray and crew have never been about. I'm also not really sure why you keep trying to make fun of Angela's last name- I have no idea what relevance that has to anything.


Absolutely, we're in agreement there needs to be growth. I am in favour of 'smart growth' as well. The fact is, certain Council members, such as Ms. Shepherd, did complete 180 degree flip-flops on the proposed CD-21 development zone idea, something City staff were wholly in favour of. Doing so was a complete slap in the face not only to the developer who agreed to finance the development plan but also to City staff who worked on developing that plan. To think Ms. Shepherd prides herself on supporting staff...yeah, right! The problem is, we haven't even had any growth, particularly downtown.

As for Ms. Reid-Nagy-or-whatever-she's-calling-herself-today seems afraid to somehow "give up" her maiden name because is afraid she will somehow lose her "name recognition", thinking she's all self-important. If she was really elected on merits, people will know who she is regardless of her name. It's not like her first name is changing.

Cheers,
Doug



Give it up with the noise, willya?

Grey and his cronies (including some staff at city hall) are the reason Lawrence and Leon look the way they do. There was a deliberate attempt on their part and in conjunction with the big developers to create an eyesore and to allow it to become a destitute part so they could force the smaller landowners there to sell to them and line their pockets. They needed to get the public yelling and supporting anything to get that eyesore out of there.

And it is still there because their greedy plans just didn't work out. Some members of council decided to get a public conscience and not give CD21 final reading and left it up to a new council to approve it or shoot it down.

https://circle.ubc.ca/bitstream/handle/ ... sequence=1


I wouldn't support them for anything. They couldn't pay me enough to make me say anything good about them.
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Re: An "Official Campaign Organization" FourChange.org

Post by CJT84 »

grammafreddy wrote:https://circle.ubc.ca/bitstream/handle/ ... sequence=1


I wouldn't support them for anything. They couldn't pay me enough to make me say anything good about them.


Lol I read that up until they started talking about economics. Total misunderstanding of the principle of a free market with the silly assumption that markets in so called "neoliberal" economies are free. Then i read the dedications to the various leftwing profs and realized it's just a massive circlejerk like most Sociology departments.

Also lmao at instead of quoting Milton Friedman she quotes Naomi Klein. Any serious econ prof or poli sci prof would probably have a good chuckle at this paper.
BoyWondering

Re: An "Official Campaign Organization" FourChange.org

Post by BoyWondering »

ForumDoug states:

Absolutely, we're in agreement there needs to be growth. I am in favour of 'smart growth' as well. The fact is, certain Council members, such as Ms. Shepherd, did complete 180 degree flip-flops on the proposed CD-21 development zone idea, something City staff were wholly in favour of. Doing so was a complete slap in the face not only to the developer who agreed to finance the development plan but also to City staff who worked on developing that plan. To think Ms. Shepherd prides herself on supporting staff...yeah, right! The problem is, we haven't even had any growth, particularly downtown.


The Mayor & Council are not there to serve City Hall staff or the needs of one developer: they answer to the community at large and are there to serve their interests. I do realize this goes against the thinking of the old guard who have no interest in listening to the community!
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Re: An "Official Campaign Organization" FourChange.org

Post by forumdoug »

grammafreddy wrote:
forumdoug wrote:
staples2 wrote:And here I was thinking Gray, Gran, Blanleil, James, Sanderson, and Zimmerman had very little to offer other than the CD-21 and other ill-planned development through the city- no forethought is a truly wonderful thing. And I'm not sure how else to put it other than you're just wrong about those on council who cover other parts of the 'spectrum'- particularly those more in the middle- where development is one consideration for the community, and one that requires incredible planning- it's not about 'no growth', it's about 'smart growth'- something Gray and crew have never been about. I'm also not really sure why you keep trying to make fun of Angela's last name- I have no idea what relevance that has to anything.


Absolutely, we're in agreement there needs to be growth. I am in favour of 'smart growth' as well. The fact is, certain Council members, such as Ms. Shepherd, did complete 180 degree flip-flops on the proposed CD-21 development zone idea, something City staff were wholly in favour of. Doing so was a complete slap in the face not only to the developer who agreed to finance the development plan but also to City staff who worked on developing that plan. To think Ms. Shepherd prides herself on supporting staff...yeah, right! The problem is, we haven't even had any growth, particularly downtown.

As for Ms. Reid-Nagy-or-whatever-she's-calling-herself-today seems afraid to somehow "give up" her maiden name because is afraid she will somehow lose her "name recognition", thinking she's all self-important. If she was really elected on merits, people will know who she is regardless of her name. It's not like her first name is changing.

Cheers,
Doug



Give it up with the noise, willya?

Grey and his cronies (including some staff at city hall) are the reason Lawrence and Leon look the way they do. There was a deliberate attempt on their part and in conjunction with the big developers to create an eyesore and to allow it to become a destitute part so they could force the smaller landowners there to sell to them and line their pockets. They needed to get the public yelling and supporting anything to get that eyesore out of there.

And it is still there because their greedy plans just didn't work out. Some members of council decided to get a public conscience and not give CD21 final reading and left it up to a new council to approve it or shoot it down.

https://circle.ubc.ca/bitstream/handle/ ... sequence=1


I wouldn't support them for anything. They couldn't pay me enough to make me say anything good about them.


I'm not saying you have to support them. Believe me, there are some things Walter Gray has done, Zimmermann has done and definitely Blanleil that I have not been supportive of.

The fact is, current Council is broken, largely by obstructionists led by Ms. Shepherd, Ms. Angela Reid-Nagy-whats-her-flavour-of-the-day and Ms. Rule along with Messrs. Hodge and Hobson, who vote down anything while being big spenders of public tax dollars on frivolous expenditures such as public art. They're also heavy environmentalists which I don't thing is a good thing. I'm all for being green, but not to be downright fluorescent.

Until someone else offers progressive policies and a willingness to not only think but do, plus be electable, we really have no other option than the unofficial 'slate' put forward. :)

Cheers,
Doug
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Re: An "Official Campaign Organization" FourChange.org

Post by kelofornia »

David Langton, interesting charachter to say the least.

I hope the citizens of Kelowna will do their homework before heading to polls and don't follow "the lesser of # evils". It is in the end up to the people who is in charge of the city. An educated vote can make a difference; this is not a popularity contest, it's a matter of who will responsibly look after taxpayers.
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FourChange.org

Post by logicalview »

Council seats held by Charlie Hodge, Michele Rule, Angela Reid-Nagy and Kevin Craig are being targeted by FourChange.org.


It's about time. What about Sharon's seat?

Hodge, who is completing his first term on council, says he's not surprised the group has come forward or that he is one of the councillors being targeted.


Of course your not surprised. You and the other three are fudyduddy bumps on logs.

Kelowna needs jobs. The economy needs to move.

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Re: FourChange.org

Post by Logitack »

you do realize there is already a thread on this, right?
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=34648
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Re: An "Official Campaign Organization" FourChange.org

Post by marooned »

The forwarding of FourChange into Kelowna's politics is indeed a move to a slate-based system, which I believe will be detrimental to our city. We need a balance of opinions and approaches in order to make both people and businesses happy, and slate-based voting runs afoul of this. I believe the current council strikes a balance, and (as I have said before) they have been okay as a council.

My recollections of past councils, under mayors Stuart and Gray, was that they were largely ineffective at anticipating and addressing city issues (such as infrastructure growth, parks improvement, etc.) and were very effective at portioning off ALR and city boundary land for walled cities and suburbs. Some thoughts:

1. The downtown withered and died under Walter Gray's tenure as mayor, and makes me think that it was allowed to do so for the reasons another has posted above. A good example of eyesore to possible OCP amendment and larger development is occurring at the corner of Raymer and Richter Streets.

2. Central Park golf course was almost wholly sold for more retail space, passing on the marvelous opportunity to create a large mid-town park; and I guess if the City couldn't afford the land purchase at that time, the economy that was so 'on track' back then, as the Gray-supporting nostalgists suggest.

3. The OCP as established under Gray has so many holes in it that it could be mistaken for Swiss Cheese. There is no direction, no vision, and components of the OCP were never acted upon.

4. Any City Council is largely ineffective at influencing a company's decision to take up shop, unless it gives away something for free - through zoning changes or amendments. Taking credit for the economic climate of a city is largely a falsehood - just ask the Ford employees in St. Thomas who watched their assembly plant close today. Mayor Gray watched Western Star close, and there's no way Mayor Simpson should take credit for the runaway success of Club Penguin.
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Re: FourChange.org

Post by logicalview »

What do you think?
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