UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange.org

Ub2
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by Ub2 »

Takin it easy ! wrote:FourChange is keeping a very low profile it seems.
I have seen that tactic used before but believe me the gears are turning and before you know it there will be an all out attack on Kelowna's future and it wont be a pretty one for the average citizen if this group gets its way.

When the onslaught hits be very well informed about who they are backing because speaking from experiance I have been tricked before.
Whats that old song "We wont get fooled again "

http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/top_story.php?id=388073&type=Local
EdCase
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by EdCase »

FUD - fear, uncertainty & doubt - has long been used to manipulate opinion and decisions by praying on insecure emotions rather than using facts: often facts and statistics are used very selectively or distorted to increase the FUD Factor. Statements are made in such a way as to imply a reason to doubt without ever coming out and directly defining the issue and their solution. FUD is at the heart of the dirty politics that is endemic today.

FourChange are masters of FUD. Just look at their four principles:

Greater leadership on council
More effective decision making
Better teamwork throughout our city
Focus on the big picture - not pet projects


All imply there is a problem without any specifics as to what the problem is and their solution - other than to vote for their candidates of course. They then talk about "It’s time for ordinary people to step forward and speak for a new direction." to gain credibility as speaking for the community at large. I think we now all understand just who they represent but why not try and cloak yourself in the respectability of the common person?

As an aside, for a group representing the common person, they sure like to keep a tight lid on things. Take a look at their...
Confidentiality Policy

The responsibility of confidentiality applies to every committee member, supporter, any employee, and volunteers working with the FourChange organization.

Under no circumstances will committee members, supporters, employees, and volunteers use any information obtained through their association with FourChange organization to their own advantage.

All member and donor information is confidential and is not to be communicated to anyone or divulged in any manner except as required by law or as consented to by the member or donor.

Member and donor information is not to be altered, copied, interfered with, destroyed, or taken except upon authorization and in accordance with established policy.
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grammafreddy
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by grammafreddy »

EdCase wrote:
FourChange are masters of FUD. Just look at their four principles:

Greater leadership on council
More effective decision making
Better teamwork throughout our city
Focus on the big picture - not pet projects




LOL - I think my Backyard Chickens is probably one of their non-big picture items.

Man, these folks are sure *bleep* off irritated about that CD21 thing and are determined to get it back on track.

I feel a heckling urge coming on ............. :discodance:

What a bunch of nose-in-the-air stuffed shirts - IMNSHO, of course. :D
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Logitack
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by Logitack »

this seems to fit Fourchange. What is the REAL goal? What is the REAL agenda? Four vague principles designed to misrepresent what this group is all about?

Astroturfing

This article is about a type of advocacy. For the artificial grass, see AstroTurf.
Astroturfing is a form of advocacy in support of a political, organizational, or corporate agenda, designed to give the appearance of a "grassroots" movement. The goal of such campaigns is to disguise the efforts of a political and/or commercial entity as an independent public reaction to some political entity—a politician, political group, product, service or event. The term is a derivation of AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to look like natural grass.

Astroturfers attempt to manipulate public opinion by both overt ("outreach", "awareness", etc.) and covert (disinformation) means. Astroturfing may be undertaken by an individual promoting a personal agenda, or highly organized professional groups with money from large corporations, unions, non-profits, or activist organizations. Very often, the efforts are conducted by political consultants who also specialize in opposition research. Beneficiaries are not "grass root" campaigners but distant organizations that orchestrate such campaigns.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
EdCase
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by EdCase »

Logitack wrote:this seems to fit Fourchange. What is the REAL goal? What is the REAL agenda? Four vague principles designed to misrepresent what this group is all about?

Astroturfing

This article is about a type of advocacy. For the artificial grass, see AstroTurf.
Astroturfing is a form of advocacy in support of a political, organizational, or corporate agenda, designed to give the appearance of a "grassroots" movement. The goal of such campaigns is to disguise the efforts of a political and/or commercial entity as an independent public reaction to some political entity—a politician, political group, product, service or event. The term is a derivation of AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to look like natural grass.

Astroturfers attempt to manipulate public opinion by both overt ("outreach", "awareness", etc.) and covert (disinformation) means. Astroturfing may be undertaken by an individual promoting a personal agenda, or highly organized professional groups with money from large corporations, unions, non-profits, or activist organizations. Very often, the efforts are conducted by political consultants who also specialize in opposition research. Beneficiaries are not "grass root" campaigners but distant organizations that orchestrate such campaigns.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing


I'd never heard this term before; it certainly fits FourChange.

I guess the ultimate Astroturf group is the Tea Party which is run by the Koch brothers and a few of their ilk, but is portrayed as a 'grass-roots' organization.
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mr barrymor
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by mr barrymor »

My concern for Council is to provide EXPERIENCE ! Council needs an Engineer/Health Executive (SHANE HERRINGTON), a Master Accountant (PETER McFADDEN), a highly involved female past regional district representative,, Chair or Vice chair of community organizations (MARY-ANN GRAHAM), a very knowledgeable High Tech businessman (SIMON SHAW). These four are successful business people with an excellent following. Part of the reason 4change is being listened to is because of the popular people they have chosen. I like experience and will take that ahead of popularity.

Research has found that the force behind 4change is those developers that have purchased property in the CD21 zone and are not able to realize profits. Personally, I am happy that we are taking time to re-examine the process and create a plan for all of the area bounded by Ellis, Harvey, the Lake and Bernard.
One of my acquaintances said regarding C21:
" There are those who own land downtown and would have seen its value skyrocket, had CD21 been forced through and had the city agreed to saddle taxpayers with enormous debts on behalf of the developer. It would have created an open-pit quarry that left a gaping wound occupying most of the heart of downtown and parts of City Park - filled with mud (and in the summer generating dust and killing every downtown shop), for Years."
"But a few select landowners would have become very wealthy. It is they who shoved Walter back into the race, because they couldn't find a single other candidate who would stand up for their "poor millionaires club" who was more credible than a former mayor who was defeated on that very issue of development - twice."
"Developers who want to capitalize on lands elsewhere in town wanted it to happen too. Why? Because the "special permission" given to billionaire Milroy was to create the kind of density you don't see anywhere but the heart of the world's most packed, congested cities. And then other developers building everywhere else in town could have made smaller and smaller units and sold them for more and more money, on less and less land. The infrastructure and traffic and utility demands would be horrifying, but the developers don't live anywhere near their monstrosities, so who cares, right?"

" Check the land records to see who would have become richER by screwing over Kelowna. Check the supporters of the "4change" cabal. Check their former businesses & colleagues. Check who their current colleagues are. Tell me what you think of their altruistic love of Kelowna and desire to preserve our quality of life."
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Let's develop Down Town Kelowna in a complete package. Bernard Avenue and Harvey Avenue included.
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erinmore3775
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by erinmore3775 »

One just needs to look at the previous picture of Kelowna and image the the area south of the Grand to the Sail and from the Lake to Ellis covered in 26 storey buildings. That is what our future may be if we, the citizens and Kelowna residents, allow the uncontrolled development of the downtown core. Unfortunately both Walter and Sharon follow that mantra. However, I do not believe that is what most citizens want when they look for economic renewal and development in the downtown.
A more logical approach, is a stepped height approach (4 to 26 storeys) from the lake to Ellis that assures both actual and visual access to the lake. However, that would take some imagination and vision (incentives, public/private partnerships, and a willingness for the public, private enterprise, and governments to work together.)
Look at the photo and ask yourself what is your 20 year vision for the Kelowna of your grandchildren before you mark your X beside the candidate of your choice. Our choices during this election will seal the future of Kelowna. It is important to select candidates who will listen to the public and seek a collaborative approach to government.
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SimonShaw
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by SimonShaw »

mr barrymor wrote:a very knowledgeable High Tech businessman (SIMON SHAW).


Thank you for the support!!!
Logitack
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by Logitack »

I will not be voting for these fourchange endorsed candidates
  • Blanleil
he said absolutely nothing in his castanet election video. no substance, nothing about a platform he stands behind. obviously he figures he will be elected simply because he is an incumbent!

  • Graeme James

not even a website to indicate his platform. another incumbent who obviously feels he will be re-elected again just because he is already on council.

  • Robert Hobson
no website to indicate his platform, doesnt even respond to questions sent to him via email. another incumbent who obviously assumes he will be re elected again! he has been on council for too long, it is time to step aside and let a new perspective sit at the table.

  • Luke Stack
while he responded to my email question, the response did not directly answer the main question, which was the CD21 project and more importantly the selling off of public parkland and waterfront!

  • Carol Gran
to her credit she did respond to my email question. however, the positive response on the CD21 and similar project is not acceptable!

  • Gerry Zimmermann
his only claim to fame is being the former fire chief. that is not enough to be elected, IMO. to his credit, he did respond to my email question, but again he is in favor of the CD21 or similar project, that is not acceptable!

  • Gail Given
to her credit she responded to my email quesiton. however, she is/was in favor of the CD21 and similar project which is not acceptable!

  • Colin Basran
he also responded to my email question, but again, he is/was in favor the CD21 and similar projects and that is not acceptable!

I am endorsing the following, based on their email response against the CD21 project and keeping public parks and public waterfront for the enjoyment of ALL citizens and safe from development!

  • Mary -Ann Graham
  • Tisha Kalmanovitch
  • Angela Reid-Nagy
  • Michele Rule
  • Mohini Singh
  • Shane Herrington
  • Dayleen Vanryswyk
  • Charlie Hodge
while he is for retaining parks and waterfront PUBLIC, I am still looking at his other platform issues.
Last edited by Logitack on Nov 14th, 2011, 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Captain Awesome
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by Captain Awesome »

It's interesting to note that for most people there's a single issue that is a deal breaker because of its paramount importance to this particular person. Whether it is waterfront development, chicken question, or green thing...
Sarcasm is like a good game of chess. Most people don't know how to play chess.
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mr barrymor
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by mr barrymor »

I am so pleased with the input regarding who will be supporting whom. The candidate and the reason for supporting or not supporting. Preparing the reader BEFORE we are handed the paper to make our choices.
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Let's develop Down Town Kelowna in a complete package. Bernard Avenue and Harvey Avenue included.
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charliehodge
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by charliehodge »

To Logitack
I never got your questions that I am aware of, however I am surprised somewhat that you do not know where I stand on the CD21. (I may have got your questions and it was literally buried amongs the myriad). I was the one who made the original motion to defeat the CD21 and have stated at every opportunity the past three years and during this campaign that I do not support the CD 21.
I was also the ONLY councillor to vote no to 26 storey highrises right on the waterfront in the new Downtown Plan. I support much of the new Downtown Plan just not 26 stories right near the waterfront. Hope this helps. Charlie Hodge.
Logitack
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by Logitack »

thanks charlie for the clarification, good to know. (actually i knew you voted against the CD21, but since you didnt respond to the email.....)

puts charlie hodge on the endorsement list...damn now i have too many to vote for!
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ScottRoss
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by ScottRoss »

Logitack, I do not believe I received an email on CD-21 as well. I do recall a discussion on CD-21 on these forums where I affirmed I was against CD-21 for its intrusion into waterfront parks.
Logitack
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by Logitack »

scott, i didnt send an email to you since you already stated here on the forums you were in favor of the CD21 or similar projects.

for full disclosure, i also didnt send the email to blanleil, james, craig or shaw since the incumbents all voted in favor of the CD21 and shaw has also indicated here on the forums he is in favor of the CD21 or similiar projects.

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