UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange.org

Free Market
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by Free Market »

There probably needs to be some change. This morning my wife and I were out for a run. We noted a number of solar powered lights over the path in Rotary Marsh Park. Now, maybe someone can correct me, but isn't the current council supposed to be about sustainability, reducing carbon footprints, etc? If so, why did they install technology (Solar voltaics) which is known for requiring more energy and creating a bigger carbon footprint in its life than what it will save? That's money that could have been saved and used when truly economical and environmentally friendly solar voltaics (eg. thin film) come available. I think I also noted a number of hybrid vehicles owned by the city. Again possibly quite stupid and less than 'green'. It also seems like this council has been driven at times more by mis-guided ideology than by science and economics.
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by ferri »

i'm not sure Free Market, but i think the Rotary Club is in charge of that, not the city. i could be 100% wrong though...
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by grammafreddy »

They drank the green Koolaid - and it wasn't lime.

But that's what happens when one elected person on council owns an environmental consulting business and was raised on David Suzuki.
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by jjjjj »

My question is...... Are any of the current or want-to-be members of Kelowna council commenting on this thread without making it known? I personally do not doubt it... :bump:
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Tacklewasher
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by Tacklewasher »

grammafreddy wrote:They drank the green Koolaid - and it wasn't lime.

But that's what happens when one elected person on council owns an environmental consulting business and was raised on David Suzuki.


There are lots of things I don't agree with you on, but you nailed this one perfectly.

:smt023
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by EdCase »

Tacklewasher wrote:
grammafreddy wrote:They drank the green Koolaid - and it wasn't lime.

But that's what happens when one elected person on council owns an environmental consulting business and was raised on David Suzuki.


There are lots of things I don't agree with you on, but you nailed this one perfectly.

:smt023


You might want to do some research before blaming any one councillor or the City in general for its green initiatives. The City is having to respond to stringent targets for GHG emissions set by the Provincial Government's Bill 27 Local Government (Green Communities) Statutes Amendment Act http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cas/legislation/index.html. You may also want to look at this link for more detail on the City's response to this externally imposed legislation http://www.kelowna.ca/CM/Page2507.aspx.
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by Free Market »

EdCase wrote:
Tacklewasher wrote:
grammafreddy wrote:They drank the green Koolaid - and it wasn't lime.

But that's what happens when one elected person on council owns an environmental consulting business and was raised on David Suzuki.


There are lots of things I don't agree with you on, but you nailed this one perfectly.

:smt023


You might want to do some research before blaming any one councillor or the City in general for its green initiatives. The City is having to respond to stringent targets for GHG emissions set by the Provincial Government's Bill 27 Local Government (Green Communities) Statutes Amendment Act http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cas/legislation/index.html. You may also want to look at this link for more detail on the City's response to this externally imposed legislation http://www.kelowna.ca/CM/Page2507.aspx.


Edcase, even a quick critical review of these documents confirms my initial suspicion and grammafreddy's allegation. If the BC government is so interested in getting on with real emissions reductions, which I would like to see, when are they going to get rid of ICBC or at least deregulate the market for auto insurance? Instead of promoting solar voltaic, when are they (or BC Hydro specifically) going to get on with smart metering and time-of-day-billing? I can think of several other policy options that could be pursued too, but I have seen no progress on.
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by EdCase »

Free Market wrote:
EdCase wrote:
Tacklewasher wrote:
grammafreddy wrote:They drank the green Koolaid - and it wasn't lime.

But that's what happens when one elected person on council owns an environmental consulting business and was raised on David Suzuki.


There are lots of things I don't agree with you on, but you nailed this one perfectly.

:smt023


You might want to do some research before blaming any one councillor or the City in general for its green initiatives. The City is having to respond to stringent targets for GHG emissions set by the Provincial Government's Bill 27 Local Government (Green Communities) Statutes Amendment Act http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cas/legislation/index.html. You may also want to look at this link for more detail on the City's response to this externally imposed legislation http://www.kelowna.ca/CM/Page2507.aspx.



Edcase, even a quick critical review of these documents confirms my initial suspicion and grammafreddy's allegation. If the BC government is so interested in getting on with real emissions reductions, which I would like to see, when are they going to get rid of ICBC or at least deregulate the market for auto insurance? Instead of promoting solar voltaic, when are they (or BC Hydro specifically) going to get on with smart metering and time-of-day-billing? I can think of several other policy options that could be pursued too, but I have seen no progress on.


FM - I'm more than happy to debate the merits of various public policy related to environmental standards, but not as part of this thread. We need to keep this clearly focused on the nefarious activities of FourChange and their underhanded attempt to influence this election in favour of one small clique.
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

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jjjjj wrote:My question is...... Are any of the current or want-to-be members of Kelowna council commenting on this thread without making it known? I personally do not doubt it... :bump:


I am considering running for Kelowna council but have made no decision as yet. I had never considered this move until FourChange made its move to influence the outcome of the election: I see their actions as an attempt to regain the control of council for the benefit of a small clique and feel that Kelowna citizens need to have some very clear choices in front of them. I am from the business community and feel strongly that economic development has been long neglected in Kelowna by all recent councils. I do not feel that FourChange represents the broader business community, but only a narrow cross-section of commercial interests who do not want to see higher paying jobs disrupting their access to McJob employees.

If my running for council will help provide a better choice of options for voters who are truly concerned about the future of this city, I will do so very openly. If I decide against running, I will then work openly to support those candidates who present a real vision for the future of the city.
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by Black Daisies »

EdCase wrote:
jjjjj wrote:My question is...... Are any of the current or want-to-be members of Kelowna council commenting on this thread without making it known? I personally do not doubt it... :bump:


I am considering running for Kelowna council but have made no decision as yet. I had never considered this move until FourChange made its move to influence the outcome of the election: I see their actions as an attempt to regain the control of council for the benefit of a small clique and feel that Kelowna citizens need to have some very clear choices in front of them. I am from the business community and feel strongly that economic development has been long neglected in Kelowna by all recent councils. I do not feel that FourChange represents the broader business community, but only a narrow cross-section of commercial interests who do not want to see higher paying jobs disrupting their access to McJob employees.

If my running for council will help provide a better choice of options for voters who are truly concerned about the future of this city, I will do so very openly. If I decide against running, I will then work openly to support those candidates who present a real vision for the future of the city.


You hit the nail on the head!!! I would vote for you because you're exactly what this town needs. What about running for Mayor?

As for this fourchange group....if they are really grassroots, why are they hiding??
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by EdCase »

There's an interesting article in today's Globe & Mail on the competition for young talent:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/top-employers/after-a-short-break-war-for-young-talent-picks-up/article2169365/

Our young people find little to keep them in Kelowna as their skills & talent find a ready market in more vibrant communities. Exciting companies like Disney Online (Club Penguin) are finding it difficult to attract & retain the creative talent they need. UBCO and OC have difficulty recruiting the calibre of talent they need for their programs.

A return to the kind of council favoured by FourChange will only exacerbate this problem and leave Kelowna as an aging community with a declining business tax base. Guess what that means for residential taxes, user fees and service cuts!
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by grammafreddy »

I see FourChange.org has changed their website now. Still no contact info, no names of who they are or any relevant info. But they have added a PayPal button and a link for donating by cheque. The mailing address is 1977 Kirschner Road - which appears to be Competition Glass.

I have spent a bit of time chasing down an old thought - the connection perhaps with FourChange and who MIGHT be involved. Am just tossing this out as a thought - not a fact - and thinking about possible connections.

There is an organization called the Urban Development Institute. The UDI is the largest pro-development lobby in Canada. The 2009 UDI Annual Report lists Gail Temple, of Westcorp Properties, as chair of the Kelowna chapter. Gail Temple is also the Director of Development for Westcorp (Phil Milroy's company). Temple was coordinating the planning of the CD-21 zone project with city staff.

Another included in my old thought is Brad Cronquist, a lawyer who is part owner of an office building in the downtown area. The 2009 Annual Report for the Urban Development Institute’s Pacific Region lists Mr. Cronquist as a director of the Kelowna Chapter.

Am looking for a more up to date Annual Report but my search time is limited now.
Last edited by grammafreddy on Sep 27th, 2011, 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by bob vernon »

This FourChange group looks so obviously like a party. A party that will run on a promise of change. And not tell the electorate about what kind of change until after the election. They look so pro-Developer that the change will likely be reduced development charges. Meaning that the rest of the taxpayers will wind up paying for services going to new developments.

We saw this sprung on the taxpayers in Vernon in the past with water lines and sewage lines being laid, and paid for by the tax payers. But the lines went to new developments. And current residents along the lines were welcome to hook up............... for a fee on top of their taxes of course.

Be very careful, Kelowna. I can see a new slate coming in and bringing "change". But the change might be seeing your taxes go into the pockets of developers. There's a ton of money to be made from having the right land zoned and from having that land serviced for peanuts, under the guise of "getting things done". There are sharks out there who will go to great lengths to hijack the election.
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by Takin it easy ! »

I can only echo that sentiment be very "very" careful here and use caution as one should before sending any of your hard earned dollars to any web site that has very limited information as to its agenda and its originators.

The most dominant thing on this site are the 2 click boxes one for Donate by Paypal and the other Donate by Cheque !
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Re: UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange

Post by Logitack »

Since surfacing two weeks ago, FourChange says it has signed up 200 new members.

In a news release issued Tuesday, FourChange says, 'apathy is the enemy of good government. FourChange hopes to make a difference for the better -- against apathy -- and in favour of our city.'

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/65 ... dependence

this is hilarious, 200 new members who have signed up with some group with vague goals and who are now saying they will not, at least at the moment, endorse any mayoralty candidate. and then they talk about "apathy"? Four Change wants people to join, pay X amount of dollars to support them, yet they wont identify who belongs to this group other than Frost and Langton....LOL They should probably change the word "apathy" to "sucker" or "sheep"!

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