UPDATE An (Un)Official Campaign Organization: FourChange.org

[grammafreddy]

morrbo .... I got lost totally about your statement about CD21 and why it failed. Would you mind saying it again with a bit more detail about why, IYO, it failed?

The American Tea-Party folks were all about defending the American Constitution. Why do you have a problem with that?

[morrbo]

morrbo .... I got lost totally about your statement about CD21 and why it failed. Would you mind saying it again with a bit more detail about why, IYO, it failed?

The American Tea-Party folks were all about defending the American Constitution. Why do you have a problem with that?

a) There are no american tea party folks - it was synthesized, promoted, founded, and populated entirely through newscorp - which, while it makes most of its money and impact in america, is not american. It is corporate and held offshore.

b) They represent what they are told to represent by corporate welfare shills, and that is the only thing they believe - they do not have the ability to think independently - which is what makes them such a dandy monolithic voting bloc (populism for the illiterate.)

c) They support candidates who have completely thrashed their Bill of Rights and support absolute dictatorship. I would wager that outside their controllers, not a single tea party sucker exists that has ever even read and understood their Constitution. They stand FOR nothing - all they do is stand AGAINST (with great hatred, vitriol, and for reasons that are not their own) what they are told to hate.

d) CD21 failed because it would have cost Milroy (and the city, who would never go for the kind of investment Milroy wanted in terms of infrastructure) far too much and the margins would have been negligible. The ill-will toward it from the people of Kelowna (not our developers' pet cheerleaders, actual people) was a vast majority.

e) The regulatory and legal concessions Milroy was after were completely unworkable and would have taken decades to resolve, adding to the expense.

f) The ground underneath needed to be able to support more mass than it could, and thanks to the substrate and wet location, a secure foundation for buildings of that mass would have had to be set so deeply that it would have cost as much to sink the foundation as to build the rest of the development.

g) Where would they all park and drive? A massive parkade is more expensive than you'd think (I sit on a Parking Committee at a large employer in town), and even if that was an option, the traffic the one complex would create would require a complete repaving of downtown and huge widening projects.

I would love to see downtown brought to life with direct residential development - but right on the water, or displacing our parks, or requiring you and me to pay for some developer's net profit - not going to happen. Better ideas need to come forward, not the same old ones just jammed down our throats by force of a majority of anti-Kelowna voices on council.

Have you received this much description, discussion, or detail on any issue from of the fourchickens.ca group?

Colour me less than surprised. Your ignorance is their only hope. Deliberate and wilful refusal to learn, to become economically and procedurally literate - that is their base.

And you're willing to hand over your future and your city's lands to this group on the basis that they are "open and transparent" right-wing cowards, hiding anonymously behind a banner put up by a feeble few spokesmodels?

Bully for you! I would rather see you vote on that basis than not at all, because the only voter less useful than one who refuses to educate themselves, is an eligibile voter who fails to vote.

[mr barrymor]

This just came to my attention and thought it would be useful regarding the CD 21 controversy ... just maybe 4square or what ever ... would change their assessment of the present Councilors and their Wisdom in this case....

Answers to Questionnaire from Save Downtown Kelowna Alliance
October 17, 2011 by admin | 0 comments

1. On a scale of 1 – 10, how urgently would you say our downtown core need attention? (1 being not urgent, 10 being very urgent): 10

2. In your opinion, what are the 3 biggest issues with our downtown core?

■Need more residential development to densify the urban core
■Need to incentivize the revitalization and/or redevelopment of commercial properties
■Need public amenities that bring people downtow
3. If you were on council, would you have supported the CD-21 in principle?

I am on Council, and while I supported much of the vision and concept renderings that were included in the CD-21 zone, I did not support the process. CD-21 was a rezoning exercise, not a development proposal. It would have locked every property owner in its boundary into a very specific “master plan” that provided no flexibility for market conditions such as we are seeing in our current recession. Our own City staff, who supported the rezoning, said it could take up to 40 years to build out. I for one did not want to wait that long, and want to give property owners, developers and entrepreneurs the flexibility and ability to be creative in the revitalization of our downtown, project by project.

[Rwede]

You're on council and you're on here chirping about the "Old Boys' Club" and using derogatory terms about the other candidates? Yikes!

[Bsuds]

I find it very disconcerting that a public official comes on here and makes comments like these incognito.
At least we know who some of the others are and they are not trying to hide.

[morrbo]

You're on council and you're on here chirping about the "Old Boys' Club" and using derogatory terms about the other candidates? Yikes!

Nice try. That's are-post of Angela Reid-Nagy's responses, which she posted publicly. The self-identification is also quoted from her post on her own pages - none of it directly addresses this discussion, and that appearance has been fraudulently implied by use of the quotation. But colour me entirely unshocked that the anonycowardsbehindfourfoxnewsfans.org would stoop to it.

And as for the old boys club - they're old, they're all male, and they lost the last election on the same issues they want to win this one, and have frosty's media mini-me behind them all - so, what is not pathetic and feeble about that? A vindictive campaign, nothing positive to propose, just trying to attack the character of the councillors who actually give a crap about Kelowna? Old boy's club is far too mild. Guys too foolish to understand how this behaviour makes them look <- that's more accurate. And is that the kind of sound judgment you want making the deicisions about your public services, spaces, amenities, and future? Yeah? Do explain how you think they will do better with a "screw the parks, that land is for my developers - mine Mine MINE!" party platform. Please. The floor is yours. Proceed.

[mr barrymor]

I posted that comment from Nagy and for a good reason. You 4change bunch are so negative and hateful that it annoys me.
It seemed appropriate that after all the negative discussion, including criticism of the CD 21 outcome, the facts needed to be revealed.
Part of your criticism of those worthy councilors you dastardly singled out to destroy, was extremely underhanded.
My quote of how a council vote upset a good Concept was acceptable as it showed the registered facts.
Recently, my recommendation of giving back Harvey to the Citizens of Kelowna was defeated. History will show if harveyavenuekelownabc.blogspot.com is accepted or not.

What you decided to say about my quote is an indication of the lack of real understanding of facts, shown in your comments that are prevalent in your statements. I question your ability to read and understand what you are reading.

[fisherking]

I posted that comment from Nagy and for a good reason. You 4change bunch are so negative and hateful that it annoys me.
It seemed appropriate that after all the negative discussion, including criticism of the CD 21 outcome, the facts needed to be revealed.
Part of your criticism of those worthy councilors you dastardly singled out to destroy, was extremely underhanded.
My quote of how a council vote upset a good Concept was acceptable as it showed the registered facts.
Recently, my recommendation of giving back Harvey to the Citizens of Kelowna was defeated. History will show if harveyavenuekelownabc.blogspot.com is accepted or not.

What you decided to say about my quote is an indication of the lack of real understanding of facts, shown in your comments that are prevalent in your statements. I question your ability to read and understand what you are reading.

Just went to your blogspot site. Thought I was at the wrong place. The rendering looked like an artist's rendering of #3 Road in Richmond.

[mr barrymor]

I posted that comment from Nagy and for a good reason. You 4change bunch are so negative and hateful that it annoys me.
It seemed appropriate that after all the negative discussion, including criticism of the CD 21 outcome, the facts needed to be revealed.
Part of your criticism of those worthy councilors you dastardly singled out to destroy, was extremely underhanded.
My quote of how a council vote upset a good Concept was acceptable as it showed the registered facts.
Recently, my recommendation of giving back Harvey to the Citizens of Kelowna was defeated. History will show if harveyavenuekelownabc.blogspot.com is accepted or not.

What you decided to say about my quote is an indication of the lack of real understanding of facts, shown in your comments that are prevalent in your statements. I question your ability to read and understand what you are reading.

Just went to your blogspot site. Thought I was at the wrong place. The rendering looked like an artist's rendering of #3 Road in Richmond.

Thank you for taking the time to look at my blog. You are possibly the 946 th person to look at it. We are receiving very favorable comments...the majority like what is there...especially the ability to ride one's bike... across the highway. I hope you noted that picture also beside the artist's rendering. It is difficult to visualize what we have in mind especially when one is not in favor of our famous John Woodworth's Concept that will give back Harvey to Kelowna.
Former Highways Minister Kevin Falcon stated: "If and when an alternate route or bypass, elevated or not, is constructed in the future, it would certainly facilitate turning the existing corridor over to the City, as you suggest. We all have a vested interest in making Kelowna a more livable city where traffic can move safely and efficiently".

[Logitack]

City Hall‘s decision in 2010 to abandon the CD-21 Zone, a downtown redevelopment plan which envisioned a dozen new highrises, was the current council‘s most significant failure, Frost says.
"To me, it was scandalous, shocking, and unprecedented for them to reverse plans that had been approved by the previous council," he said.

http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/stori ... ?id=387410

And there is the REAL reason for 4change and their motivation for "change". They are in the pocket of developers who want to get prime public lands so they can make their quick buck and the run of of "dodge" with their money.

Lets hope the voters wont be fooled by this groups "endorsements for change" and realize another CD21 type of project is desired and where Kelowna public lake shore and fronting property is put in the hands of developers!

[EdCase]

City Hall‘s decision in 2010 to abandon the CD-21 Zone, a downtown redevelopment plan which envisioned a dozen new highrises, was the current council‘s most significant failure, Frost says.
"To me, it was scandalous, shocking, and unprecedented for them to reverse plans that had been approved by the previous council," he said.

http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/stori ... ?id=387410

And there is the REAL reason for 4change and their motivation for "change". They are in the pocket of developers who want to get prime public lands so they can make their quick buck and the run of of "dodge" with their money.

Lets hope the voters wont be fooled by this groups "endorsements for change" and realize another CD21 type of project is desired and where Kelowna public lake shore and fronting property is put in the hands of developers!

There is nothing scandalous about a new council reversing plans approved by a previous council if they believe these plans are not in the public interest. Isn't this exactly what FourChange want a new council to do?: except the change isn't for the public interest but only to satisfy the short-term greed of a few of their friends.

Of course downtown needs to be revitalized, but CD21 never was the way of achieving this.

[EdCase]

But directors of the group, which now has more than 200 members, will not make an announcement on which four candidates they‘re endorsing for at least a week, and possibly not until just shortly before the Nov. 19 civic election.
"Our group doesn‘t meet again until Friday, so I don‘t think there‘ll be an announcement about any endorsements this week," FourChange.org spokesman Nick Frost said Sunday.

This group are cowardly in the extreme: they are willing to say who they are against right upfront, but they are not willing to announce their endorsements until just before the election in the hope of minimizing any backlash against them.

This is the FourChange Steering Committee:

Francis Braam - Owner/Managing Broker, Royal LePage Kelowna
Brad Cronquist - Partner, Pushor Mitchell LLP
Rodney Friesen - President of Voyager RV Centre
Nick Frost - Founder/Owner, Castanet.net
Jacquie Jones - Retired Human Resource & Training Consultant
David Langton - Partner, Competition Glass
Cal McCarthy - Founder/President, SW Audio+Visual & Showtime Events
Wendy Nelson - Founder/Owner of Nelson & Associates
Jorin Wolf - Founder/President, Jorin Wolf Interior Design

This isn't exactly a good cross-section of the Kelowna business community! They claim 200 members and to have raised $5,000: at $25 each, that's not putting much skin in the game. If they really had the strong support they claim, you'd expect to see several hundred members broadly representing the community, all putting some serious money into getting their candidates elected.

Their only motivation is anger over the cancellation of CD21 - they have nothing positive to offer.

[Takin it easy !]

FourChange is keeping a very low profile it seems.
I have seen that tactic used before but believe me the gears are turning and before you know it there will be an all out attack on Kelowna's future and it wont be a pretty one for the average citizen if this group gets its way.

When the onslaught hits be very well informed about who they are backing because speaking from experience I have been tricked before.
Whats that old song "We wont get fooled again "

[Carmencat]

"To me, it was scandalous, shocking, and unprecedented for them to reverse plans that had been approved by the previous council," he said.

I literally did laugh out loud when I heard Frost say this. Is he really that stupid? Does he really not know that is a big reason WHY the current council was voted in? To do just that?

Or he thinks we are too stupid to know his group wants to do exactly the same thing.

Apparently some of us just aren't smart enough to know that this group as been formed by totally unselfish people who want to save us from ourselves.

[Pookybear]

"To me, it was scandalous, shocking, and unprecedented for them to reverse plans that had been approved by the previous council," he said.

I literally did laugh out loud when I heard Frost say this. Is he really that stupid? Does he really not know that is a big reason WHY the current council was voted in? To do just that?

Or he thinks we are too stupid to know his group wants to do exactly the same thing.

Apparently some of us just aren't smart enough to know that this group as been formed by totally unselfish people who want to save us from ourselves.

Well I for one am glad that they voiced their concern over the scandalous reversal of the CD21 plans. I didn't like the idea of highrises being so close to the lake when they could be built back towards Richter. I now understand, thanks to fourchange, that I haven't a clue what I am talking about and am deeply sorry that I voted in a council that would squash that developement and hurt their poor pocket books. My Bad!