Backyard Chickens

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grammafreddy
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Backyard Chickens

Post by grammafreddy »

I am sooooooo pleased to see this FourChange group is attacking council over the Backyard Chicken issue. We ARE making a difference and people ARE hearing us if FC is fussing about it as an election issue.

Thank you very much, FourChange group. You make my job much easier now.

Why Change is Needed
The past 6 years have seen delay and dysfunction at City Hall. Decisions are postponed, plans delayed, the talk goes on... while a slow economy affects us all.

There are many examples of this lack of leadership to be found in every corner of Kelowna. Here are just 10 of them...

Much work, great support, then this Council reverses the Downtown Redevelopment Plan
Rapid Transit to Rutland sees 5 years of talk, but the watered-down plan is still not done
New Kelowna logo not so original or popular; but city spends $80,000 on "extensive" research
City seeks proposals for KSS site, but rejects them all, site now sits empty, as city invents...
...the Central Green plan, loaded with costly demands, no takers, could cost us $10 million
City buys waterfront lots at Cedar Avenue; then rejects project; now back for more study
Salary task force says freeze salaries, but this Council delays 4 months, grudgingly agrees
City wants rebuild of Bernard Avenue, but gives no promise of faster winter construction

Council bounces around about Enterprise Bunnies, then debates Backyard Chickens
City changes its mind on HOV lanes



Maybe now, people will realize the Backyard Chickens aren't really the issue - lack of concern and care about every citizen in Kelowna and not just the elite or the monied is what is really at stake here with this FC bunch of council-stacking petulant failed CD21 sulkers.

I support the council wannabees who DO know that Kelowna is not just for the wealthy - and that the average, ordinary, everyday person also needs to be heard by anyone who sits on council. When they stack the deck, they don't care about the little guy. They don't even think like the little guy. They only see their views and fight for their pet causes - and in this case, it is all pro-developer and pro-sell off the lakeshore for elite development - not for the public and not for YOU.
Last edited by grammafreddy on Nov 2nd, 2011, 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pookybear
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by Pookybear »

The local Backyard Chicken group has sent out a questionnaire about allowing chickens on residential lots to Kelowna city council candidates and is posting their responses to their website here: http://kelownakluckers.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81#p128

Awesome! Whoever supports this and CD 21 will not be getting my vote. Thanks for making it easier.
Last edited by Pookybear on Nov 3rd, 2011, 7:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
Carmencat
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by Carmencat »

This has been very helpful!! I couldn't vote for Gran in a million years. Blanleil is sill most likely a no, but his stand on pesticides and backyard chickens means he is still on my maybe list. I was on the fence regarding ZImmerman but this has pushed him to the 'yes' category. Much thanks! :smt117
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grammafreddy
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by grammafreddy »

There's just as many on the other side of the fence, however, at least this will separate the elite-ists from the wannabees who actually have concerns about the common folks in this town.

It also will tell some folks who the wannabees are who want to control what a person can do on their own property, too. I'm just one of the ones who don't like government meddling where they ought not to stick their snotty stuck-in-the-air noses.
Last edited by grammafreddy on Nov 2nd, 2011, 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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exFarmerS
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by exFarmerS »

I'm on the other side. This website will help with the council candidates that I'm not sure about. This is "sustainability" at it's very roots. People need to be able to feed themselves whether urban or rural.

Thanks for posting the link.
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ScottRoss
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by ScottRoss »

Pookybear and Carmencat, I respect both of your opinions, but a city government that bases regulations on specific instances and not general principles is costly, slow, and does not follow the rule of law. Instead of focusing on small issues and reviewing each and every one a city must lay a foundation of principles upon which it is to function. For me I believe if citizens meet building and health standards, keep their property maintained, and do not disturb their neighbours they should be allowed to have backyard chickens; if you disagree I would be interested to know why. Thank you.
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by Carmencat »

I can't speak for Pookybear, but my concern lies with the chickens themselves. I have little faith that many people will not get backyard chickens to teach little Johnny and Janie about where eggs come from, then tire of the experiment and the chickens when little Johnny and Janie no longer care. I won't even get into coyotes being drawn to backyard chicken coops and what that might mean.

I see so many people who can't care for their pets properly or give them away at the first sign that the puppy or kitty is actually work and a responsiblilty. I already volunteer at a bunny sancutary, made necessary by irresponsible people who changed their minds about owning a bunny. I don't think I have the time, energy or money to support a chicken sanctuary for abandoned or mistreated chickens.

If someone wants free range eggs, I would happy to suppy the name of someone who has a rural farm and has had free range laying hens for years.

BTW Scott Ross, I am still on the fence about you as well but am leaning towards a yes vote as I do plan to vote for some newbies. I also like your signs - neat, to the point, an unobtrusive.

I might add, I totally understand the POV that government should stay out of my yard. That is how I feel about pesticides - if I want to use then on my yard, butt out. How do you feel about that, Mr Ross?
Last edited by Carmencat on Oct 22nd, 2011, 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by The Green Barbarian »

ScottRoss wrote:For me I believe if citizens meet building and health standards, keep their property maintained, and do not disturb their neighbours they should be allowed to have backyard chickens; if you disagree I would be interested to know why. Thank you.


and who is going to enforce this? And is it going to be enforced before or after yet another out-break of avian flu? What do you do with the chickens after they stop laying? This is not a simple issue, it is actually quite difficult, and the reality is the positives (fresh eggs I guess?) are vastly outweighed by the negatives.
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Carmencat
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by Carmencat »

Totally agree, Barbarian - I was going to add Mr Scott's comment to my post. The answer is, NO ONE will enforce this.

Again, my concern is for the chickens and I don't for a minute believe there will be someone there looking out for their well being. The SPCA can barely keep up with complaints regarding domestic animals.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Carmencat wrote:Totally agree, Barbarian - I was going to add Mr Scott's comment to my post. The answer is, NO ONE will enforce this.

Again, my concern is for the chickens and I don't for a minute believe there will be someone there looking out for their well being. The SPCA can barely keep up with complaints regarding domestic animals.


It probably will fall to the city by-law people to enforce "cleanliness", if at all, like they need another stupid thing put on their plate to enforce. I really think that the real issue here is cost v. benefit - very little benefit for a giant cost. I can just see my lazy hippy-dippy neighbors falling for this nonsense and putting in a chicken coop - then never feeding the things or cleaning up their poop, and now I have to live beside a stupid smelly chicken coop filled with half-starved chickens spreading disease around the neighbourhood because some urbanized intellectuals thought that "locally grown" food was a good idea to reduce our "carbon footprint" or whatever stupid fad is the latest feel-good dumb idea. Total stupidity.
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by tsanderson »

Can we please get on to more important issues. If you are not a farmer you have no business raising chickens in your backyard. This issue is a complete insult to farmers, and every time city staff have to research it, it is a complete waste of our tax money. Come on Gramma, it is time to deal with real issues, such as... when my children graduate will they be able to live here? However, it is funny how the candidates scurry to answer your question. The problem with our council is highlighted by the responses of Mr. Hodge and Mrs. Graham...more research and studies :-(
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ScottRoss
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by ScottRoss »

Green Barbarian, questions are good for ensuring we understand each other and your question touches on an important point. There is difficulty in enforcing by-laws whether it be the allowance or the disallowance of backyard chickens, in either situation enforcement will not be economically viable.

It may be argued that the presence of backyard chickens will be more identifiable to neighbours and thus easier to report a violation of a by-law banning them but that argument also supports at least a minimal level of enforcement, public awareness, of a by-law permitting them.

I would also add that there are laws against certain activities within a private dwelling, criminal activities that range to the most deplorable. Though our government cannot prevent every instance of a grow-op, domestic violence and child abuse, it still operates on the belief that people will not violate the law. There can be little enforcement of things we know little about, but we cannot exclude everything because we cannot control it 100%.

We cannot 100% enforce the proper treatment of backyard chickens, but we cannot 100% enforce the proper treatment of people living together either. We must allow society to function without controlling every aspect of it.

In regards to the avian flu comment I would point out that cities across Canada and in the United States allow backyard chickens, the practice also receives the consent of Health Canada. I put much value in the opinion of health authorities and I hope others do as well.
Last edited by ScottRoss on Oct 22nd, 2011, 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ScottRoss
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by ScottRoss »

Carmencat, as a citizen I thank you for your volunteer work.

I should emphasize I personally do not want chickens in my backyard, but if neighbours obey basic building and health standards, as they already do with their homes, food, pets, children, and vehicles, and if those same neighbours maintain the appearance of their property and do not disturb others living next door, then backyard chickens should be allowed.

I am not so much speaking for backyard chickens as I am speaking for an efficient city government, that drafts by-laws based on principle and not purely personal opinion.

As for the imposition on SPCA that backyard chickens could create I would suggest any impact would be minimal or non-existent. Other cities, and there are a lot, who allow backyard chickens illustrate that there are not a large number of people who take advantage of the policy. Also I have not been able to find any information on animal welfare agencies being financially affected. That does not mean those agencies in those cities have not been impacted, but I am not aware of any information on that point; if you know of any source I would be much obliged.

From my discussions with others it appears the motivation against backyard chickens, for some at least, comes from the negative connotation they have of being a small town. I would point out that most major cities allow for backyard chickens and that diversity is the surest sign of being a major urban centre.
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grammafreddy
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by grammafreddy »

tsanderson wrote:Can we please get on to more important issues. If you are not a farmer you have no business raising chickens in your backyard. This issue is a complete insult to farmers, and every time city staff have to research it, it is a complete waste of our tax money. Come on Gramma, it is time to deal with real issues, such as... when my children graduate will they be able to live here? However, it is funny how the candidates scurry to answer your question. The problem with our council is highlighted by the responses of Mr. Hodge and Mrs. Graham...more research and studies :-(


Oh quit being so snooty, Todd.
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Re: Backyard Chickens

Post by Carmencat »

I would point out that most major cities allow for backyard chickens and that diversity is the surest sign of being a major urban centre.


Mr Ross, would you like to back that statement up? I am not aware of any major cities in Canada - other than a few cities in the lower mainland - that allow backyard chickens. And only a few in the states.

I bet that most who would want backyard chickens because they 'want to feed themselves' don't bother to plant and keep a vegie garden - something that can be done pretty much regardless of the size of your backyard.

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