Backyard Chickens

[The Green Barbarian]

I would point out that most major cities allow for backyard chickens and that diversity is the surest sign of being a major urban centre.

Mr Ross, would you like to back that statement up? I am not aware of any major cities in Canada - other than a few cities in the lower mainland - that allow backyard chickens. And only a few in the states.

I bet that most who would want backyard chickens because they 'want to feed themselves' don't bother to plant and keep a vegie garden - something that can be done pretty much regardless of the size of your backyard.

and veggies don't poop on everything or require feed every day. Seriously - I have no idea why anyone would want chickens in their back yard - it's just such a dumb idea in every way possible. What's next? Everyone tethering a cow in their backyard so they can have a bucket of milk with breakfast every morning? A sheep so they can shear it and knit themselves sweaters?

[Carmencat]

Ya, that was kind of my point. Most people are too lazy to have a vege garden, which is why I think the whole backyard chicken thing is a fad with the chickens coming out as the losers.

Also some interesting comments from councillors and wannabes. I agree with the comment about the chickens attracting predators. The comment about dogs barking is interesting. Our neighbourhood dogs already bark at each other non stop when they are out at the same time. The next door neighbours dog charged into our yard today barking and chasing a bird. So if all of a sudden the neighbourhood dogs are barking at chickens, who is at fault? The dog owner or chicken owner?

Will the barking dogs and other noises stress the chickens so they won't lay eggs? Then what happens?

All in all, a stupid idea.

[grammafreddy]

Flippin' criminy ... listen to you all ... so full of yourselves and trying to tell people how they can use their own backyards - or even their front yards for that matter. Who made you the boss and master of someone else's land?

You may think its a stupid idea but nobody is saying you have to have chickens if you don't want them. Still you feel justified in telling other people they can't have them.

How many people do you reasonably think would actually get chickens? Say, how many on your street or even in a 4-block radius of your street? There are people already in Kelowna in residential subdivisions who have chickens - and their neighbours don't have a clue they are there. One of them could be your neighbour. I personally doubt the number - in all of Kelowna - who would actually get chickens would be more than 100. There's far more dogs and cats than that. If the city banned dogs and cats it would be the same thing - somebody controlling what you can do with and on your own land.

This isn't a matter of where YOU get your eggs from or where YOU think people should get them. Its a matter of some people would prefer to know where their eggs come from, what they eat, what hormones and antibiotics are in them and how they are treated. Some want to teach their children the joys of producing their own food and being responsible citizens - and yes, probably most people who get chickens would be the kind who also successfully grow their own veggies. Some others appreciate the chicken's ability to consume detrimental insects in their gardens - and to aerate the soil and even provide great nitrogen fertilizer for their veggie and flower beds.

And they won't bark all night and keep you awake, either.

[JLives]

^^^^^ :rate10:

Nobody has the right to tell us how to procure our own food. That is government crossing the line.

[grammafreddy]

I would point out that most major cities allow for backyard chickens and that diversity is the surest sign of being a major urban centre.

Mr Ross, would you like to back that statement up? I am not aware of any major cities in Canada - other than a few cities in the lower mainland - that allow backyard chickens. And only a few in the states.

I bet that most who would want backyard chickens because they 'want to feed themselves' don't bother to plant and keep a vegie garden - something that can be done pretty much regardless of the size of your backyard.

Education is a wonderful thing ...

http://home.centurytel.net/thecitychick ... nlaws.html

Scroll down ... I think you'll find more than "just a few" there. The listings in Canada are out of date as I know Vernon now allows chickens on city lots.

[Carmencat]

Educate yourself.

Mr Ross said that most major cities allow for backyard chickens.

CANADA

Calgary, Alberta, Canada. The City Council voted against allowing chickens in June, 2010.
Esquimalt, British Columbia, Canada. Up to 10 caged "ornamental birds" (kept primarily for show) are allowed. It appears up to 4 hens, no roosters, are allowed in most zonings.
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. Chickens are prohibited.
London, Ontario, Canada. Prohibits chickens within its municipal boundaries. Here's the by-law: http://www.london.ca/By-laws/PDFs/animals2000.pdf
Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Chickens are prohibited.
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. As of May, 2010 up to 4 chickens allowed (no roosters) and owners must register their chickens.
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada. Has a bylaw that supports raising urban poultry. No Roosters. No "Farm Animals". Poultry are not classified as "farm animals" under Victoria's bylaws.

Your list proves my point. And I wouldn't call Vernon a 'major city'. LOL. Not to mention even in the American list, very few are major cities. Just as I said.

I'm still waiting for the list of major Canadian cities that allows backyard chickens - as Mr Ross stated......

[grammafreddy]

Educate yourself.

Mr Ross said that most major cities allow for backyard chickens.

CANADA

Calgary, Alberta, Canada. The City Council voted against allowing chickens in June, 2010.
Esquimalt, British Columbia, Canada. Up to 10 caged "ornamental birds" (kept primarily for show) are allowed. It appears up to 4 hens, no roosters, are allowed in most zonings.
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. Chickens are prohibited.
London, Ontario, Canada. Prohibits chickens within its municipal boundaries. Here's the by-law: http://www.london.ca/By-laws/PDFs/animals2000.pdf
Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Chickens are prohibited.
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. As of May, 2010 up to 4 chickens allowed (no roosters) and owners must register their chickens.
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada. Has a bylaw that supports raising urban poultry. No Roosters. No "Farm Animals". Poultry are not classified as "farm animals" under Victoria's bylaws.

Your list proves my point. And I wouldn't call Vernon a 'major city'. LOL. Not to mention even in the American list, very few are major cities. Just as I said.

Honey - Kelowna is NOT a major city either. Why would you want to compare it to something it is not?

* * * * *

And to answer the other question of why do people want to raise chickens? Here's why ...

People are realizing chickens are a multipurpose pet. They eat bugs and weeds, they're really fun to watch. And how many pets make you breakfast?

They don't bark all night (dogs).

They don't destroy your flower beds (cats).

They provide food for your family (eggs and meat).

They are natural pesticides (they eat many different kinds of bugs).

They provide chemical-free lawn and garden fertilizer (high in nitrogen).

They are natural herbicides (they eat weeds).

They aerate your lawn (they scratch in the earth)

They eat table scraps.

They live outside year-round (no mess in the house, no dog hair, no litter boxes, no scratched furniture, no pet smells, no urine on the rugs, upholstery and drapes.)

They can be kept in movable pens (called chicken "tractors" http://home.centurytel.net/thecitychicken/tractors.html) and can be contained right where you want them to be.

They are easy to keep (low maintenance).

They put themselves to bed at night and they are quiet all night long.

They don't get into the neighbours' garbage on garbage day.

Chickens don't need to go to obedience classes.

They will not bite the mailman.

They do not need to be neutered.

They do not need to be taken to the groomers.

They do not need to go to a boarding kennel when you go on a trip.

They are cheap to buy and to maintain (baby chicks start at around $2 to buy, depending on breed, exotic breeds cost more).

They provide hours of entertainment (kids especially love chickens). Many communities class chickens as "pets" rather than "farm animals".

They don't bite (they may peck but if hand raised, they are very docile and friendly).

You know where your food comes from and what has gone into it (no chemicals, hormones, preservatives)

Three or four chickens requires only 3 sq ft per bird. Many large cities are now allowing up to 6 chickens on a city-sized lot. Most do not allow roosters, but some do.

Three or four hens will provide enough eggs for a family of 4. Three chickens lay about 50 eggs per month.

You don't need a rooster to get eggs.

Fresh eggs have a richer flavor and firmer whites that are better for baking.

Free-range eggs have 33 percent less cholesterol, 25 percent less saturated fat and noticeably more vitamins and omega-3 fatty acids than the typical mass-produced cage-raised egg layers. http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Foo ... -Eggs.aspx

Chickens can be raised on apartment and condo balconies. You can collect the chicken droppings, compost them in a small container, and then put them in your planters on your patio where you are growing some veggies or flowers.

Their homes can be made from repurposed materials (used lumber, pallets, plastic containers, etc)

[grammafreddy]

Here's some more education for you ...

http://atlantachickenwhisperer.blogspot ... -into.html

However, I really didn't intend this thread to get into debating the issue with nay-sayers and the snobby bunch. The purpose of this thread was merely to advise the people who wished to keep backyard chickens that emails have gone out to all the wannabees and to give them a link to look at their responses to the emails.

Debate it in the chicken thread not this one. This one is for the election.

[Carmencat]

And I thank you again as it has helped me make some decisions on who I will vote for. : )

Still waiting for Mr Ross's list if that is OK with you, since he brought it up and it is election related.

I did find many of the requirements on the first link amusing. By their own admission many cities have standards that would mean no lot in the city would meet the bylaw requirements. I also love the one that requires the chicken keepers to take a class. And several that require the OK of a large percentage of the neighbours. I would assume that would be considered a no no in Kelowna if the council was to adopt a chicken bylaw?

[Carmencat]

Honey - Kelowna is NOT a major city either. Why would you want to compare it to something it is not?

Duh. Honey. Mr Ross is the one who made the statement that most major cities allow for backyard chickens

YOU then said Vernon now has backyard chickens. Which does not add to Mr Ross's claim. Neither Vernon or Kelowna is a major city, IMO.

[grammafreddy]

And I thank you again as it has helped me make some decisions on who I will vote for. : )

Still waiting for Mr Ross's list if that is OK with you, since he brought it up and it is election related.

I did find many of the requirements on the link amusing. By their own admission many have standards that would mean no lot in the city making the bylaw requirements. I also love the one that requires the chicken keepers to take a class. And several that require the OK of a large percentage of the neighbours. I would assume that would be considered a no no in Kelowna if the council was to adopt a chicken bylaw?

Sure, wait all you like.

I didn't provide that list because of what he said - I provided it because of what YOU said. You said you were unaware so I gave you awareness.

As in all things government, there is entirely too much red tape. Many of the ordinances needed to deal with chickens are already in place in most towns and cities (of all sizes). All the city really needs to do is amend the dog bylaw to allow chickens and limit their number just as they do dogs. Instead they have dragged their feet on this issue for more than three years now and staff has been so freakin' ridiculous with their "studies" - laughable, really. It took them over a year to produce three letters from the BCSPCA (non-supporting because it cuts into their controlling territory), IHA (supporting) and one other agency which was also in support of allowing them. The report is on the Kelowna Kluckers website, if you care to look.

[grammafreddy]

Honey - Kelowna is NOT a major city either. Why would you want to compare it to something it is not?

Duh. Honey. Mr Ross is the one who made the statement that most major cities allow for backyard chickens

YOU then said Vernon now has backyard chickens. Which does not add to Mr Ross's claim. Neither Vernon or Kelowna is a major city, IMO.

How many times do you plan to go around with me?

You said ... "I am not aware of any major cities in Canada - other than a few cities in the lower mainland - that allow backyard chickens. And only a few in the states. "

I gave you a list that showed there were more than a few in the States. I mentioned the list was OOD because Vernon was not on it - and there are likely others as well.

[Carmencat]

If, as you have said, there are already people who have backyard chickens and their neighbours aren't aware - why bother with the bylaw? Why waste more time than has already been wasted when it doesn't appear to be needed? Those who want to keep chickens will, with or without the bylaw.....

I would assume Mr Ross's statement was related to Canada - not the U.S. Since he is running in Canada, and all. Many of the places on the list you provided do not allow chickens, and most are not major cities. Especially considering the number of states in the U.S. and the number of major cities there are.

[ScottRoss]

Carmencat, I may have used incorrect wording. I think this discussion is being taken far more seriously than it should. Though clearly not "most major cities" allow for backyard chickens, New York, Portland, Vancouver, Seattle, Arlington, Victoria, Richmond, Burnaby, and New Westminister do. Considering New York city has half the population of Canada, it does prove to be a striking example.

If Health Canada, health authorities in the US and all these cities allow for backyard chickens, and acknowledging the few people who will actually have backyard chickens I think there is little evidence to suggest the city should interfere and concern itself with such a small issue.

[grammafreddy]

If, as you have said, there are already people who have backyard chickens and their neighbours aren't aware - why bother with the bylaw? Why waste more time than has already been wasted when it doesn't appear to be needed? Those who want to keep chickens will, with or without the bylaw.....

I would assume Mr Ross's statement was related to Canada - not the U.S. Since he is running in Canada, and all. Many of the places on the list you provided do not allow chickens, and most are not major cities. Especially considering the number of states in the U.S. and the number of major cities there are.

Info is all it is ... intended to inform you since you said you didn't know. Yer knickers are knotting.

Contrary to the way you might do things, some people like to take the legal way. Their chickens are considered pets, not barnyard animals. If they do it illegally, the bylaw brutes can come and confiscate their pets. If they came and took your dog, you might be a tad peeved, wouldn't you? They feel the same about their chicken pets.

Now, you may feel that chickens cannot be pets but I would differ. Chickens can be quite cuddly and affectionate and will even "talk" to you and murmur when they are happy and comfy - much like a cat will purr.