Four Change makes their picks

Logitack
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

Post by Logitack »

grammafreddy wrote:
I detest that kind of politics. I detest what FourChange is trying to do.


I do as well. It is too bad that another group didnt/has not formed to counter 4change. those with money do, those without sit on the sidelines and B****** and moan. Citizens for kelowna? Coalition for ordinary citizens of kelowna? Committee to keep change sensible?
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Captain Awesome
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

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Logitack wrote:Citizens for kelowna? Coalition for ordinary citizens of kelowna? Committee to keep change sensible?


Old People Against Tall Buildings, Bright Lights, and Anything Fun.
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Logitack
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

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it is ok, cap, yer not that old! :bethecoffee:
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Captain Awesome wrote:
Logitack wrote:Citizens for kelowna? Coalition for ordinary citizens of kelowna? Committee to keep change sensible?


Old People Against Tall Buildings, Bright Lights, and Anything Fun.


:dyinglaughing:

so true.
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normaM
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

Post by normaM »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Captain Awesome wrote:
Logitack wrote:Citizens for kelowna? Coalition for ordinary citizens of kelowna? Committee to keep change sensible?


Old People Against Tall Buildings, Bright Lights, and Anything Fun.


:dyinglaughing:

so true.

if you had only added noise :D
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Black Daisies
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

Post by Black Daisies »

Captain Awesome wrote:
Logitack wrote:Citizens for kelowna? Coalition for ordinary citizens of kelowna? Committee to keep change sensible?


Old People Against Tall Buildings, Bright Lights, and Anything Fun.


So....what's so fun about Tall Buildings and Bright Lights?
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Captain Awesome
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

Post by Captain Awesome »

Black Daisies wrote:So....what's so fun about Tall Buildings and Bright Lights?


Huh?
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grammafreddy
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

Post by grammafreddy »

Captain Awesome wrote:
Logitack wrote:Citizens for kelowna? Coalition for ordinary citizens of kelowna? Committee to keep change sensible?


Old People Against Tall Buildings, Bright Lights, and Anything Fun.


Now, CA, you know that's not true.

I have actively campaigned against CD21 but not because I am against tall buildings, bright lights or anything fun.

CD21 was not a solution to anything and was only one person's fictional "dream plan" which then got touted by certain individuals on city council and within the empires of city hall staffers.

CD21 was not even a feasible plan, given the amount of land required to construct a highrise tower of 20+ storeys.

When one considers that any developer who wanted to build a tower anywhere in the downtown core (and especially on Lawrence and Leon) already had the zoning for it in their favour prior to CD21 but did not build any towers there, then one has to ask, "why not?". The answer, as I have posted many times, is because the developers could not acquire the land mass they needed to build these towers. The downtown core is in many small lots and a number of these lots are owned by small businesses and they refused to sell to the developers. So an effort was made (by Walter Gray's former council and city hall empire builders) to choke them out by allowing the downtown to go to hell and turn it into a druggie and weed-infested slum area, in order to drive these small businesses and land owners out. Other buildings that were owned by the big developers were leased to less than stellar tenants to further their run-down-force-them-out cause and their own empty lots were allowed to become slum land.

If the big developers and CD21 supporters couldn't get the land away from the small businesses and land owners then, what makes anyone think anything has changed now?

Does Walter Gray and FourChange's selection have any other nefarious plan now that acts against those small businesses and land owners up their sleeves?

Will they, if elected, expropriate/steal those lands so they can consolidate them and build their towers on them?
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

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Can a municipal government expropriate land for a private commercial development ? Can the owners of said land sell to a developer for double it's actual value ? Yes or No answers only please....
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

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*removed/Jo*
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grammafreddy
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

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gordon_as wrote:Can a municipal government expropriate land for a private commercial development ? Can the owners of said land sell to a developer for double it's actual value ? Yes or No answers only please....


Last one first ... yes, anyone can sell land they own to whoever they want at whatever price they feel like asking. If someone wants it badly enough, they'll pay the asking price. Just look at some real estate in Kelowna over the past few years. A lot of those $350,000+ homes aren't worth $150,000, but they are selling to somebody.

First one last ... I've seen it happen where a municipality expropriated land for city services but don't know about doing it for resale to some other private commercial development. The city could expropriate saying it was required for one thing, hold it for a while, then sell it. The current council has said they have no intention of expropriating land for lot consolidation downtown.

Refresh my memory about what happened with that mobile home park - Hiawatha, perhaps? Wasn't there something where the city acquired the mobile home park land then sold it to a developer? If that's right, then what did the city say they bought it for? Park?
Last edited by grammafreddy on Nov 5th, 2011, 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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grammafreddy
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

Post by grammafreddy »

papafreddy wrote:Cant you talk to people with some level of respect? It doesn't matter to me who you vote for but as a person your just horrible. Why do you think I moved on with my life.

grammafreddy wrote:
donkey wrote:
If it makes any difference, I'm a member of the steering committee.



Ooooohhhh ... I have questions for you ... are you up for them?


Are you having fun yet?

There was absolutely nothing disrespectful about what I said to "donkey".

Why do you feel the need to respond for "donkey"? Did "donkey" go to Africa with you-know-who suddenly, too?
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

Post by Takin it easy ! »

grammafreddy wrote:
papafreddy wrote:Cant you talk to people with some level of respect? It doesn't matter to me who you vote for but as a person your just horrible. Why do you think I moved on with my life.

grammafreddy wrote:
donkey wrote:
If it makes any difference, I'm a member of the steering committee.



Ooooohhhh ... I have questions for you ... are you up for them?


Are you having fun yet?

There was absolutely nothing disrespectful about what I said to "donkey".

Why do you feel the need to respond for "donkey"? Did "donkey" go to Africa with you-know-who suddenly, too?
:dyinglaughing: Too damn funny :dyinglaughing:
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

Post by gordon_as »

grammafreddy wrote:
gordon_as wrote:Can a municipal government expropriate land for a private commercial development ? Can the owners of said land sell to a developer for double it's actual value ? Yes or No answers only please....


Last one first ... yes, anyone can sell land they own to whoever they want at whatever price they feel like asking. If someone wants it badly enough, they'll pay the asking price. Just look at some real estate in Kelowna over the past few years. A lot of those $350,000+ homes aren't worth $150,000, but they are selling to somebody.

First one last ... I've seen it happen where a municipality expropriated land for city services but don't know about doing it for resale to some other private commercial development. The city could expropriate saying it was required for one thing, hold it for a while, then sell it. The current council has said they have no intention of expropriating land for lot consolidation downtown.

Refresh my memory about what happened with that mobile home park - Hiawatha, perhaps? Wasn't there something where the city acquired the mobile home park land then sold it to a developer? If that's right, then what did the city say they bought it for? Park?



Acquiring , or buying are a far cry from expropriating. If the city wants to buy a piece of property , the landowner probably gets greater than fair market value for it. If the city wants to sell it to a developer later I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as they don't make the developer a sweet deal on a taxpayer owned piece of land.
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grammafreddy
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Re: Four Change makes their picks

Post by grammafreddy »

gordon_as wrote:

Acquiring , or buying are a far cry from expropriating.

If the city wants to buy a piece of property , the landowner probably gets greater than fair market value for it. If the city wants to sell it to a developer later I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as they don't make the developer a sweet deal on a taxpayer owned piece of land.


Oh, for sure - they are two entirely different things.

Land deals come up for the city to acquire from time to time. Sometimes the owner will offer it to the city first before it hits the market - especially if there are adjacent city-owned lands or plans for future development in the OCP. Sometimes it is an outright donation to the people of the city via the municipal government - to be held in trust for the people. Sometimes there will be an agreement between the city and the seller about future land uses.

Expropriating is when the city forces the landowner to give up their land to the city or other body. Sometimes FMV is paid for it, sometimes not.

I don't have any issue if the city purchases a piece of land to hold for the future and then used it as trading value or leverage to a means to an end for a project that benefits the citizens.

I do have a problem if they expropriate it and then flip it to a developer, though, with no return value to the citizens who paid for it.
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