Choice for Mayor

Who would you like to see elected Mayor of DWK?

Doug Findlater
28
40%
Rosalind Neis
42
60%
 
Total votes: 70

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Urbane
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by Urbane »

    Bestside wrote:
    Urbane wrote:
      occasional thoughts wrote:There is a lot of stridence developing in this thread, primarily from Bestside and Parachute, it seems. The last slam was a bit unfortunate; a lot of "reasonable" people will be voting for Findlater and a lot of "reasonable" people will be voting for Neis in the upcoming election. And one of them is going to, probably, squeak in. I'm probably voting for Neis, I'll know for sure when I've walked out of the polling booth. And while he probably won't be getting my vote, I don't think that people who will be voting for Findlater are unreasonable just because they don't agree with me.
    Well said OT. I find both Findlater and Neis to be decent people who have served their community well. While I see no reason to fire Findlater, and in fact I believe he's done an excellent job, the community will be just fine if Neis is elected. We're just in the "spin cycle" right now and so some posters choose to engage in hyperbole etc.

    Well, here we go with the strident dissing of voters/posters who are passionate for their community, and who they do not agree with, rather than their showing examples of their favorites "excellence".
    Figures... it never changes for some....

Urbane Wrote:
Well said OT. I find both Findlater and Neis to be decent people who have served their community well. While I see no reason to fire Findlater, and in fact I believe he's done an excellent job, the community will be just fine if Neis is elected. We're just in the "spin cycle" right now and so some posters choose to engage in hyperbole etc.

My apologies for suggesting that both candidates are decent people et al. So strident of me. I'll try to follow your kinder and gentler ways in the future . . .
:127:
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by occasional thoughts »

Ah, elections, and naming referendums. They bring out the "best" (!!) in all of us. Think if we were in Afghanistan or Iraq or maybe the Kurdistan end of Turkey we could just go out and kill one another for expressed views . . .

I thought Parachute went a bit too far in seeming to doubt the reasonableness of people who were in disagreement with him. Bestside thought I'd misunderstood/misinterpreted the comment. I'll defer to that, but over all here I get the sense of people being shouted down if they're not voting Neis. And while I can be strident and think of shouting people down, I don't like seeing that quality in me or anyone else.
waterwings
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by waterwings »

Aw guys let him shout. It makes him look ignorant and out right rude.
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Bestside
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by Bestside »

Urbane wrote:
Bestside wrote:
Urbane wrote:
    occasional thoughts wrote:There is a lot of stridence developing in this thread, primarily from Bestside and Parachute, it seems. The last slam was a bit unfortunate; a lot of "reasonable" people will be voting for Findlater and a lot of "reasonable" people will be voting for Neis in the upcoming election. And one of them is going to, probably, squeak in. I'm probably voting for Neis, I'll know for sure when I've walked out of the polling booth. And while he probably won't be getting my vote, I don't think that people who will be voting for Findlater are unreasonable just because they don't agree with me.
Well said OT. I find both Findlater and Neis to be decent people who have served their community well. While I see no reason to fire Findlater, and in fact I believe he's done an excellent job, the community will be just fine if Neis is elected. We're just in the "spin cycle" right now and so some posters choose to engage in hyperbole etc.

Well, here we go with the strident dissing of voters/posters who are passionate for their community, and who they do not agree with, rather than their showing examples of their favorites "excellence".
Figures... it never changes for some....

Urbane Wrote:
Well said OT. I find both Findlater and Neis to be decent people who have served their community well. While I see no reason to fire Findlater, and in fact I believe he's done an excellent job, the community will be just fine if Neis is elected. We're just in the "spin cycle" right now and so some posters choose to engage in hyperbole etc.

My apologies for suggesting that both candidates are decent people et al. So strident of me. I'll try to follow your kinder and gentler ways in the future . . .
:127:

Your hyperbole does not hide that you are accusing those posters that occasional thoughts referred to, as exaggerating / not telling the truth about what they write about. So as I inferred before, show where it is not the truth rather than throwing out low ball accusations without showing any backup facts. Of course the nature of a blog allows you to make unsubstantiated accusations. Similarly that can be responded to.

I am done with that... back on topic... Putting forth points about candidates that supports one's choice or rejection of a candidate is democracy in action... it is not shouting down people that do not agree. If people feel they are being shouted down it is simply because they do not have an opposing argument... other than perhaps "Vote for ABC because he spoke with me, and that makes him a smart guy". (Or are people that shallow?) :dyinglaughing:
"Conservatives have whipped themselves into spasms of outrage and despair that block all strategic thinking" - David Frum
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Urbane
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by Urbane »

Well, where do I start? The naming committee wasn't fired because it was never intended to be a permanent group. It did its work which culminated in a recommendation to Council. As the chairman acknowledged it was always up to Council to make the final decision as to what the ballot would look like and that's what Council did. Also, those who wanted Westbank as a name have Findlater to thank for that not happening? I think not. West Kelowna was chosen in a very democratic way by those voting so let's not re-write history. As to the flip-flopping issue Neis flip-flopped when she pledged to vote for the name selected on the ballot only if that name was selected by a majority of those voting. She changed her mind, rightly so, and did in fact vote for West Kelowna. Findlater flip-flopped on the food bank issue and rightly so. You yourself, Bestside, have flip-flopped on the governance issue. From October 1 of this year:

"Bestside wrote:
Although I need to interject that Rita Milne's words "If we incorporate where are we going to get competent people to form our government" rings in my head daily... and if I had it to do it over again I would be voting with you to amalgamate on that one...


I commend you for your flip-flop and I commend others who flip-flop and get it right. Neis got it right, Findlater got it right, and you got it right (well, maybe). How about that!?

ETA: If you're right that if certain incumbents get back in our municipality is toast then we definitely shouldn't have incorporated. I think you're being hyperbolic though because we'll survive just fine whether my candidates win or lose.
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Urbane
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by Urbane »

One of the reasons I'm voting for Doug Findlater is because of his fiscal responsibility. Here's an excerpt from his website:

At all times I believe we must ensure prudent levels of taxation and that value is received for tax money spent – and that there are visible results. Note that the current Council has maintained an annual tax increase that is significantly less than the Governance Committee projections of 5% annual increase for 5 or more years. By the end of 2011 (4 years after incorporation), the municipality will have accumulated approximately $20M, not including Sewer and Water Reserves. This is significantly better than the $16M projected by the Governance Committee after 5 full years of incorporation.


More: http://findlater.com/
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canadman
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by canadman »

Urbane wrote:Well, where do I start? The naming committee wasn't fired because it was never intended to be a permanent group. It did its work which culminated in a recommendation to Council. As the chairman acknowledged it was always up to Council to make the final decision as to what the ballot would look like and that's what Council did. Also, those who wanted Westbank as a name have Findlater to thank for that not happening? I think not. West Kelowna was chosen in a very democratic way by those voting so let's not re-write history. As to the flip-flopping issue Neis flip-flopped when she pledged to vote for the name selected on the ballot only if that name was selected by a majority of those voting. She changed her mind, rightly so, and did in fact vote for West Kelowna. Findlater flip-flopped on the food bank issue and rightly so. You yourself, Bestside, have flip-flopped on the governance issue. From October 1 of this year:

"Bestside wrote:
Although I need to interject that Rita Milne's words "If we incorporate where are we going to get competent people to form our government" rings in my head daily... and if I had it to do it over again I would be voting with you to amalgamate on that one...


I commend you for your flip-flop and I commend others who flip-flop and get it right. Neis got it right, Findlater got it right, and you got it right (well, maybe). How about that!?

ETA: If you're right that if certain incumbents get back in our municipality is toast then we definitely shouldn't have incorporated. I think you're being hyperbolic though because we'll survive just fine whether my candidates win or lose.


Hey Urbane, Bestside et al... I've been so wrapped up debating Kelowna election stuff I hadn't been checking on here for a while as it seemed quite dormant for a while.

I began scanning the threads to night under West Kelowna Civic Election and scanning through this one I saw you make reference to the Naming Committee and something about us not being fired... What was that referencing? I couldn't find an earlier post that your response pertained to?

As the chair of that committee, we were certainly not fired. We completed our duties with the presentation of a comprehensive final report to Council which I had drafted, with input from various members of the committee, including fantastic statistical analysis offered voluntarily to the committee from a retired statistician.

Council didn't fire us, they simply dismissed our recommendation without so much as a question, comment or clarification, they then introduced a new proposal put together by four Council members who had met prior on the matter, behind closed doors, much to the surprise of other Council members. The group of four included then Councillor and naming committee member, and now Mayor Findlator. Like a magician instantly pulling a rabbit out of a hat, the proposal was introduced, without discussion, voted on and passed.

Tuduh!
"The road to hell is paved with concrete."
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canadman
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by canadman »

Actually I should add, because I don't want that post to come off wrong, that's all in the past now. Over the last three years I've had several opportunities to chat with both Mayor Findlater and Councillor Neis and have developed considerable respect and admiration for both of them. They are good people. Very different, but very committed to this community and their hearts are in the right place. I like them both and will be disappointed to see either of them no longer serving on Council.

I think this will be a horse race to the finish, but regardless of how it ends up I'll be content with whomever sits in the seat on November 20th.
"The road to hell is paved with concrete."
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Urbane
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by Urbane »

    canadman wrote:Actually I should add, because I don't want that post to come off wrong, that's all in the past now. Over the last three years I've had several opportunities to chat with both Mayor Findlater and Councillor Neis and have developed considerable respect and admiration for both of them. They are good people. Very different, but very committed to this community and their hearts are in the right place. I like them both and will be disappointed to see either of them no longer serving on Council.

    I think this will be a horse race to the finish, but regardless of how it ends up I'll be content with whomever sits in the seat on November 20th.
Very well said. Thanks for your comments about the events surrounding the naming committee. The naming process ended up not being very tidy, to say the least, and in retrospect things should have been done differently. However, I'm pleased with the name we have now and I think most people either like it or are at least okay with it. I really appreciate what you said about both candidates for mayor. While I have my choice, Doug Findlater, I agree that both candidates have their hearts in the right place and I too will be disappointed to see one of them not serving on Council anymore.
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by parachute »

canadman wrote:Council didn't fire us, they simply dismissed our recommendation without so much as a question, comment or clarification, they then introduced a new proposal put together by four Council members who had met prior on the matter, behind closed doors, much to the surprise of other Council members. The group of four included then Councillor and naming committee member, and now Mayor Findlator. Like a magician instantly pulling a rabbit out of a hat, the proposal was introduced, without discussion, voted on and passed.

Tuduh!

Hi "canadman". Yes, your statement about what was done when you and your Naming Committee presented their report to Council is absolutely correct (I remember that and all your Committee members must remember it as well!).

The "behind the scenes, back room collusion" by the group of four lead by Findlater was conducted with no knowledge of Mayor Neis. Note that at that time Neis was a COMPLETE novice and worked hard to get our District Government, Staff, etc., up and running that first year. And what did Findlater and his cabal do to help Neis??? NOT MUCH!

"pulling a rabbit out of a hat, the proposal was introduced, without discussion, voted on and passed." and ensuring that the MAYOR at the time was kept in the dark was UNFORGIVABLE and should be UNFORGETTABLE in my opinion.

"canadman" you go on to say:
canadman wrote:I've had several opportunities to chat with both Mayor Findlater and Councillor Neis and have developed considerable respect and admiration for both of them. They are good people. Very different, but very committed to this community and their hearts are in the right place. I like them both

I just wonder why you dismiss Findlater's "kneecapping" of a novice Mayor as not an indication of his true character?
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by canadman »

Parachute, I don't dismiss it, I just understand it more and have a better understanding today of the players than I did then.

Don't get me wrong, there probably weren't many people more upset than I was when all that went down. Remember, unlike Mayor Findlater (then Councillor), Councillor Neis (then Mayor) and even a couple of others on the committee who were there, in part filling their paid obligations for the organizations they worked for, Council, Chamber, etc... myself and the other members of the committee were purely volunteers, dedicating many hours to that process. I had a day job, family responsibilities, etc and serving on the committee was taxing emotionally and on my time. I was extremely happy with the way in which that work was dismissed as abruptly as it was.

Nonetheless, I've learned a few things since then.

For example, Mayor Findlater was a government beaurocrat who had only just begun serving on council at that time. How he dealt with the situation was not inconsistent with the way most government beaurocrats do things. I don't mean that negatively, I mean it practically. Government beaurocrats meet behind closed doors, they discuss things and they make recommendations. I don't think Mayor Findlater was trying to be underhanded, I just think that was the environment he came from and was probably trying to be expeditious, it just never came out looking that way.

So, while I still disagree with how it all happened (and to be fair, I think I made mistakes as well, and could have handled things better), with time to reflect, see how things have evolved and get to know people like the Mayor and Councillor Neis a little better, I think it all worked out in the end and I know that the community's best interests were priorities to them both.

Since then, I think Mayor Findlater's done an excellent job at the helm of Council. He's made mistakes but he's done other things very well. The same would be said of anybody in that position.

I say the same of Councillor Neis, whom I also think did an excellent job serving as our first Mayor and having to not only learn on the job, but also pour the foundation of a municipal government with no past political experience.

I KNOW for a fact now that both candidates care deeply about this community and are committed to it. I've spoken with them both, both personally and professionally and I wouldn't hesitate to throw my support behind either of them.

With that said, however, my only concern right now, given that each is very different in their approach, is where things are leading looking ahead.

This past three years we've operated as a municipality with government support, kind of like living at home with your parents where some of the burden of costs and support are taken on by them.

As we move forward, we will leave the municipal 'nest' and be much more responsible for ourselves independently.

We have virtually no commercial operations on municipal land, certainly very little retail, and very little likelihood of attracting much more retail to the community as we're becoming saturated already. That means we enjoy proportionally less commercial tax revenue than other municipalities.

Because of explosive development here, we are building more commercial business than the community can support. I know many people personally who's businesses have gone under this past year or two, partly due to the recession and other factors, but primarily due to the rapid, uncontrolled expansion of the market and their shrinking slice of the pie. A community this size can only support so many dry cleaners, car washes, restaurants, electronics stores, etc. The pie just isn't that big.

As each business closes it's doors, those employed by it become unemployed and have to find work elsewhere. When they can't find work, they can't afford to put money they don't have back into the community so other businesses suffer. More businesses lay off staff or close their doors as a result. The next thing you know, people are leaving our community to find jobs somewhere else.

Services in this community have to be paid for by somebody. Without private sector support, the burden falls on taxpayers. Eventually, when there's not enough money to pay the bills, services have to be cut.

I worry, with the lack of private sector support, as most commerce falls on WFN land and a community with more and more people looking for work, how will we address what will become, over the next five years, a real financial crisis out here, I believe.

I also think tourism, given that we are situated on the doorstep of one of the most prominent tourist resorts in Canada, has to be a primary industry here. It's low hanging fruit for us and represents our best opportunity to draw both investment and revenue. Hundreds of thousands of people drive through our community each year on the way to Kelowna and elsewhere. We should be working to attract those visitors and keep them out here, yet we have only three hotels I think it is, none of which are located in prime tourist appealing locations (maybe Best Western because of the close proximity to shopping - and I don't include The Cove because it's not really a hotel), we have no attractions, and beyond the regular array of big box and conventional retailers, no real unique shopping (or very little).

Would YOU holiday in West Kelowna? If you were planning on a Summer holiday to Kelowna, would YOU stay here instead? I'm not sure I would, because staying here means anything I want to do requires me to drive into Kelowna.

We have an exceptional waterfront, why aren't we using it? We have a downtown (Westbank town centre) that could be revitalized and become a fantastic heritage town and draw it's own visitors to the area, why isn't anything tangible happening there?

Our next Mayor will have to deal with these things, and the longer we let them sit (I know there are plans 'in the works' for some of these things, but they must start becoming more than plans) the more we will decline.

Just my thoughts.
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by parachute »

Excellent, "canadman". I hope everyone reads your post. Great thoughts about our District. Thanks.
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Bestside
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by Bestside »

canadman wrote:Don't get me wrong, there probably weren't many people more upset than I was when all that went down. Remember, unlike Mayor Findlater (then Councillor), Councillor Neis (then Mayor) and even a couple of others on the committee who were there, in part filling their paid obligations for the organizations they worked for, Council, Chamber, etc... myself and the other members of the committee were purely volunteers, dedicating many hours to that process. I had a day job, family responsibilities, etc and serving on the committee was taxing emotionally and on my time. I was extremely happy with the way in which that work was dismissed as abruptly as it was.

Your "happy" contradiction sounds like the work of a politician. You certainly expressed other sentiments than happiness at the time.
In fact after that firing dismissal took place you were very displeased and took on lots more organization work to stump for West Kelowna as the new name. I eventually succumbed to your persuasive ways...

I "Think" your nice words just may be a "Marketing" ploy.... vis-a-vis our district... :dyinglaughing:

By-the-way... your description of a government bureaucrat like Findlater was is far from accurate...
Although it may be applicable to Findlater the person, in government It would be more applicable to a power hungry politician...
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canadman
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by canadman »

Bestside wrote:
canadman wrote:Don't get me wrong, there probably weren't many people more upset than I was when all that went down. Remember, unlike Mayor Findlater (then Councillor), Councillor Neis (then Mayor) and even a couple of others on the committee who were there, in part filling their paid obligations for the organizations they worked for, Council, Chamber, etc... myself and the other members of the committee were purely volunteers, dedicating many hours to that process. I had a day job, family responsibilities, etc and serving on the committee was taxing emotionally and on my time. I was extremely happy with the way in which that work was dismissed as abruptly as it was.

Your "happy" contradiction sounds like the work of a politician. You certainly expressed other sentiments than happiness at the time.
In fact after that firing dismissal took place you were very displeased and took on lots more organization work to stump for West Kelowna as the new name. I eventually succumbed to your persuasive ways...

I "Think" your nice words just may be a "Marketing" ploy.... vis-a-vis our district... :dyinglaughing:

By-the-way... your description of a government bureaucrat like Findlater was is far from accurate...
Although it may be applicable to Findlater the person, in government It would be more applicable to a power hungry Apolitician...


Not a marketing ploys at all. And not meant to be 'political'. It's how I feel. Unlike some who hold on to things, time teaches me lessons and gives me new perspectives.

I already stated how unhappy I was then, but times have changed as have my views of some of the players. Accept that ornot, your choice.

Regarding 'firing' the committee. Our committee was NEVER fired. We completed our work, made our recommendation and it was rejected. I know you are big on facts so I thought it best to clarify them in this case. I don't excuse Mayor Findlater for how he handled things back then, but I do think he's done good work since then and, as with so many things in life, I find it better to put things in the past, move forward and concentrate on the present and the future. I wish both candidates. The best of luck.
"The road to hell is paved with concrete."
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Re: Choice for Mayor

Post by waterwings »

If wishes were horses beggars would ride. I accept that I will never ever be able to think or write as objectively as Canadman. I enjoyed your comments and am very proud to live in a district where you have do your due diligence and duties contributing to the well being of others.

Bestside needs to take a step back and consider just how at arm's length really works and try harder to be less subjective and more objective in his opinions.

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