Random drug testing for welfare recipients

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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby alanjh595 » Jul 31st, 2018, 11:13 am

LTD wrote:
Even Steven wrote:...And now we turn somebody who is scraping by into a homeless and hungry individual.

Question - does it improve the situation?

taking away their fix money = more of them roaming peoples backyards to steal stuff


The "taking away of their fix money" could be redirected to better policing and supporting drug rehab facilities. Everybody wins.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby Sparki55 » Jul 31st, 2018, 11:27 am

JLives wrote:Here's a better idea and it's cheaper: guaranteed minimum income with no qualifiers.


It's so hard to get on welfare, look up all the hoops you have to jump through in BC. There's already 60,000 people using the service which is down from over 150,000 in the 90's due to it being tougher to get on.

Take away the hurdles and give people a basic income and no one will work. What motivation is there? Look at the stats.

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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby OKkayak » Jul 31st, 2018, 12:35 pm

If I apply for a new job, chances are I have to go take a pee test. I then go exchange my time for income, when I receive that income, the Government takes a nice portion of the income I've earned and passes it on to those who do not require to exchange their time for income. Then the Government also takes money that I've earned and gives these people "safe places" to shoot up their addiction of choice while the rest of us who exchange our time for money watch the government take more and more money away from us every year.

I have no problem with people who use drugs, its their choice. But I do have issues when I'm required to provide a pee pee sample in order to become a productive member of society but those who are given my earned money don't have to.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby soupy » Jul 31st, 2018, 12:40 pm

OKkayak wrote:If I apply for a new job, chances are I have to go take a pee test. I then go exchange my time for income, when I receive that income, the Government takes a nice portion of the income I've earned and passes it on to those who do not require to exchange their time for income. Then the Government also takes money that I've earned and gives these people "safe places" to shoot up their addiction of choice while the rest of us who exchange our time for money watch the government take more and more money away from us every year.

I have no problem with people who use drugs, its their choice. But I do have issues when I'm required to provide a pee pee sample in order to become a productive member of society but those who are given my earned money don't have to.


I am curious here. How many jobs out there require a urine sample pre-employment offer ?
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby the truth » Jul 31st, 2018, 12:43 pm

more that you think.............
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby OKkayak » Jul 31st, 2018, 12:44 pm

soupy wrote:I am curious here. How many jobs out there require a urine sample pre-employment offer ?

Last numbers I read, it was 18% in BC, but thats based on an article from 2009, so I'm sure that quite a few more have joined the ranks.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby soupy » Jul 31st, 2018, 12:47 pm

the truth wrote:more that you think.............


I have only experienced it when working in remote sites. It is a general question.

My last 2 employers do not test. And they are very large employers.

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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby OKkayak » Jul 31st, 2018, 1:24 pm

soupy wrote:
I have only experienced it when working in remote sites. It is a general question.

My last 2 employers do not test. And they are very large employers.

First time I had to do a pee pee test, was back in the early 90s. Took me two hours before I could tinkle [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby soupy » Jul 31st, 2018, 1:39 pm

OKkayak wrote:
soupy wrote:
I have only experienced it when working in remote sites. It is a general question.

My last 2 employers do not test. And they are very large employers.

First time I had to do a pee pee test, was back in the early 90s. Took me two hours before I could tinkle [icon_lol2.gif]


[icon_lol2.gif]

First one I did I didnt fill up the cup enough. Had to wait around 2 hours drinking water (Prescribed amount) until I could retry. If i left it was considered a failure.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby OldIslander » Jul 31st, 2018, 2:21 pm

Sparki55 wrote:
bob vernon wrote:Once again, we would be attacking the victim of the crime. The crime is the importation, manufacture, and trafficking of addictive drugs. Not their use. The addict is the victim who uses drugs to cover his despair. Because the dealers and traffickers are willing to jeopardize vulnerable lives for a profit, they should be subject to capital punishment for their crime. A first offense could mean jail time, but a second offense of trafficking should mean death. I'm serious about this. Nothing less will end the trafficking.


Yea, once again we have to listen to this garbage. etc etc etc

I recall from Bob Vernon's previous posts that he doesn't need anyone to stick up for him--does a pretty good job of it himself. But I'm going to side with him on this one. We'll never see capital punishment for anything in this country in our lifetimes, but I wouldn't be adverse to seeing it for drug dealers. But that's not the point I want to make here...

People on welfare are the lowest ranking, most defenseless individuals in our social hierarchy. Even if they're not wasting their money on drugs or booze, most live substandard lives. The ones with addictions live subhuman lives--most are homeless. They have failed to succeed in our western society for a wide range of reasons. It would be interesting to know what percentage of folks on welfare, manage to figure out what went wrong with their lives, get help to solve the problems, and reenter society as productive citizens. I suspect the number is low.

I've leaned right of center my whole life -- a semi-redneck. But as I've aged, I've softened a bit. The recent stories of uncle Sam, separating families at their southern border as an incentive to scare away refugees and immigrants, was brutal. At least as harsh as refusing a few hundred bucks welfare to a person who already has nothing. This would make the hopelessness complete.

Why stop at just drug testing for folks on welfare? Maybe we should cut them off if they're obese. Or if they don't agree with our politics. Or have criminal records. Or are of a sexual orientation we don't like. Or a colour/race/nationality that has fallen out of favour. It is a slippery, greasy slope.

Today when I look in the mirror, or read the news in the local paper, I want to feel good about being in a society that that doesn't treat its most defenseless citizens like dogs. If that makes me a closet liberal, then I guess I'll wear it.

Canadians are the first to condemn other countries for civil rights abuses. Leaving our most defenseless, helpless citizens penniless, or the Yanks separating babies from their mothers, makes us/them just as bad as many of the two-bit despots scattered around the world.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby Jflem1983 » Jul 31st, 2018, 2:33 pm

soupy wrote:
OKkayak wrote:If I apply for a new job, chances are I have to go take a pee test. I then go exchange my time for income, when I receive that income, the Government takes a nice portion of the income I've earned and passes it on to those who do not require to exchange their time for income. Then the Government also takes money that I've earned and gives these people "safe places" to shoot up their addiction of choice while the rest of us who exchange our time for money watch the government take more and more money away from us every year.

I have no problem with people who use drugs, its their choice. But I do have issues when I'm required to provide a pee pee sample in order to become a productive member of society but those who are given my earned money don't have to.


I am curious here. How many jobs out there require a urine sample pre-employment offer ?


All good jobs
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby Mtn Biker » Jul 31st, 2018, 2:35 pm

OKkayak wrote:If I apply for a new job, chances are I have to go take a pee test. I then go exchange my time for income, when I receive that income, the Government takes a nice portion of the income I've earned and passes it on to those who do not require to exchange their time for income. Then the Government also takes money that I've earned and gives these people "safe places" to shoot up their addiction of choice while the rest of us who exchange our time for money watch the government take more and more money away from us every year.

I have no problem with people who use drugs, its their choice. But I do have issues when I'm required to provide a pee pee sample in order to become a productive member of society but those who are given my earned money don't have to.


A few questions for you. Does all the income tax you are deducted go to social welfare and such as you assert? Or do most go to other things like roads, parks, general health (I'll come to that), schools, and other services you are provided for being a citizen? For those who require urine tests as a component of their employ, I say *bleep* at the persons who created the need to take a pee test in the first place because they were impaired on the job. As for how the government uses your taxes, I say look no further than Inferior Health Authority. The bureaucratic dead weight in the group would be in the millions of dollars. Maybe when IHA stops wasting so much tax money on new buildings not needed, fat cow executives that do nothing, and pure and simple mismanagement, those savings would be available to combat other issues, like social ones. So really, your hard earned money being used for social welfare is pretty small in the big picture.
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby Sparki55 » Jul 31st, 2018, 3:38 pm

OldIslander wrote:Why stop at just drug testing for folks on welfare? Maybe we should cut them off if they're obese. Or if they don't agree with our politics. Or have criminal records. Or are of a sexual orientation we don't like. Or a colour/race/nationality that has fallen out of favour. It is a slippery, greasy slope.


Not a single one of your comparisons make any sense. At least if they are obese they chose to feed themselves with their limited money instead of injecting drugs. Agreeing with our politics doesn't make any sense, just a dumb space filler. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with wasting welfare money and we aren't racist so we won't discriminate on colour, that it just absurd!

What the suggestions here are for is to create a way that welfare recipients can better spend their money vs. blowing it all on drugs. As people have mentioned, how is it fair to just hand someone money that they shoot up their veins? Not all on welfare do this but ask any crime force and they will admit there are a higher number of OD's on check days. It's not as simple as a drug test to get your check, I understand that won't be a good solution. Maybe it is that these people are too bored so they take drugs. Maybe we need to give them jobs. If you are not disabled and on welfare you don't have anything stopping you from picking up garbage around town, sweeping the sidewalks, etc. With technology these days we could put a locator on them which turns on for 4 hours a which makes sure they walk a route and turn in some garbage for a check, maybe less free time will be less time to score drugs. There has to be a better way.

You talk about these people as if they are living subhuman lives. Apart from not have a permanent residence they are fed, have shelters, take drugs and chill on the beach. I've seen many homeless (may not ever be on welfare) with better phones and bluetooth speakers then me. Maybe it isn't your ideal life but some of them don't seem willing to change because they work the system for themselves and figure it is good enough.

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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby soupy » Jul 31st, 2018, 3:57 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:If I apply for a new job, chances are I have to go take a pee test. I then go exchange my time for income, when I receive that income, the Government takes a nice portion of the income I've earned and passes it on to those who do not require to exchange their time for income. Then the Government also takes money that I've earned and gives these people "safe places" to shoot up their addiction of choice while the rest of us who exchange our time for money watch the government take more and more money away from us every year.

I have no problem with people who use drugs, its their choice. But I do have issues when I'm required to provide a pee pee sample in order to become a productive member of society but those who are given my earned money don't have to.


I am curious here. How many jobs out there require a urine sample pre-employment offer ?[/quote]

All good jobs[/quote]

That is quite the bold statement you make here.

My job is VERY GOOD. I did not have to take a drug test, nor do the other employees. (APPROX 600 of them)
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Re: Random drug testing for welfare recipients

Postby soupy » Jul 31st, 2018, 4:05 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:
I am curious here. How many jobs out there require a urine sample pre-employment offer ?


All good jobs[/quote]

Wow, that is a bold statement.

My job isn't "good" because i didnt have to pee into a cup ?
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