Bkr.All things Jagmeet

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The Green Barbarian
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by The Green Barbarian »

erinmore3775 wrote: May 15th, 2022, 11:27 am

I believe that the article more accurately reflects the NDP/Liberal accord. Rather than a sign of betrayal, it is a sign of political maturity.
Thanks for the laugh Erin. Justin and Jagmeet are the furthest things from "mature". They are a joke, and a blight on this country.
Justin Trudeau summed up by Stephen LeDrew:

Cockwomble: a person prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behaviour while generally having a very high opinion of his own wisdom and importance.
Catri
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Re: All things Jagmeet

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Merry wrote: May 15th, 2022, 10:30 am I agree.

Those folks who voted NDP did so because they didn’t want to vote Liberal or Conservative. If they’d have wanted to see Trudeau remain in power, they’d have voted Liberal. So, by behaving more like a Liberal backbencher, than the NDP Leader, Singh has betrayed those NDP voters.

It’s one thing to vote with the Governing Party on certain issues, in return for concessions on other issues. But it’s a different thing entirely to blindly agree to prop up an unpopular Government for several more years.

Mr. Singh is a traitor to both his Party and his country.
I voted NDP. I am fine with Trudeau remaining in power. Try not to assume too much about how and why people vote. I honestly have not seen or heard a single person who actually voted NDP upset about what the NDP is doing. Mr Singh is not a traitor, that is pure partisan hyperbole. The thing you are missing is that there is common ground between the Liberals and the NDP, which splits the vote on the left, but it also enables them to work together and realistically for NDPers, this is the best possible scenario, they are so unlikely to form government on their own, but this gives them a say in exchange for their support, which is great for Canadians and great for them. People are acting like this is some brand new phenomena...that a third party holds the balance of power in a minority government is old hat and it's a little bizarre to get all aflutter over it. It would be weird if it was the NDP supporting the conservatives since they have no common ideological ground at all, but the bloc did for the CPC for Harper's first two terms and no one batted an eye.
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by I_am_a_Liberal »

Catri wrote: May 15th, 2022, 2:51 pmI voted NDP. I am fine with Trudeau remaining in power. Try not to assume too much about how and why people vote. I honestly have not seen or heard a single person who actually voted NDP upset about what the NDP is doing. Mr Singh is not a traitor, that is pure partisan hyperbole. The thing you are missing is that there is common ground between the Liberals and the NDP, which splits the vote on the left, but it also enables them to work together and realistically for NDPers, this is the best possible scenario, they are so unlikely to form government on their own, but this gives them a say in exchange for their support, which is great for Canadians and great for them. People are acting like this is some brand new phenomena...that a third party holds the balance of power in a minority government is old hat and it's a little bizarre to get all aflutter over it. It would be weird if it was the NDP supporting the conservatives since they have no common ideological ground at all, but the bloc did for the CPC for Harper's first two terms and no one batted an eye.
Great notion. Some people have such a hard time giving relevance to the other democratic parties in Canada - that they forget that there are actual people who vote for anything but conservatives. The conservative party has to earn the PM throne. It isn't a right. If conservatives actually campaigned on actual policies - and didn't have a penchant for bait and switch after gaining power - many people may actually vote for the tories. But this conservative party doesn't offer anything worthwhile. So they lose.
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erinmore3775
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by erinmore3775 »

^^ Well said Catri and historically accurate. Interesting point that now people you politically do not agree with have to be called traitors. I believe that the NDP /Liberal accord is best for Canada at this time. We don’t need another election.
We can’t fight homelessness, hunger, or poverty, but we can fight climate change. The juxtaposition of the now and the future, food for thought.

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The Green Barbarian
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Catri wrote: May 15th, 2022, 2:51 pm

I voted NDP. I am fine with Trudeau remaining in power.
I would never vote NDP, and I'm not fine with Justin the child remaining in power. He's a blight on this country.
Justin Trudeau summed up by Stephen LeDrew:

Cockwomble: a person prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behaviour while generally having a very high opinion of his own wisdom and importance.
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by Pappywinkle »

erinmore3775 wrote: May 15th, 2022, 3:23 pm ^^ Well said Catri and historically accurate. Interesting point that now people you politically do not agree with have to be called traitors. I believe that the NDP /Liberal accord is best for Canada at this time. We don’t need another election.
:up: :up:
The best part about the 'twitter files' is where Tucker Carlson asks Hunter Biden to help his kid get into college.

Some right wingers definitely have a secret folder full of naked Hunter Biden photos.
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by I_am_a_Liberal »

The Green Barbarian wrote: May 15th, 2022, 3:34 pmI would never vote NDP, and I'm not fine with Justin the child remaining in power. He's a blight on this country.
I don't know if you have been paying attention.....but more people disagree with you in Canada. You probably said that the NDP wouldn't win a majority in BC with a puffed-up attitude and false confidence. They won a majority. You probably said that it was a sure thing when Scheer was running against Trudeau. Trudeau won. You probably said that when Otool ran against Trudeau. Trudeau won. And every step of the way the NDP under Jagmeet worked bi-partisanly with Trudeau.

You probably said that Biden wasn't going to win. He did. I wonder if you should start using reverse psychology - then you might win.
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Catsumi
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by Catsumi »

Merry wrote: May 15th, 2022, 12:51 pm I wonder if you'd feel the same way if the NDP had agreed to prop up a Conservative Government for a few years in exchange for dental care? I suspect not.

Edited

What I'm objecting to is the agreement to support the Libs for the next three years, without really knowing what exactly it is that they will be supporting.

Propping up a minority Government for that length of time, in return for free basic dental care seems like a deal that benefits the Libs more than the NDP. And I think the NDP could, and should, have been less generous with what they were offering.


As for the comment above about not knowing what people were voting for when they voted, I think it's reasonable to assume that if they wanted a Liberal Government they would have voted Liberal. The fact they didn't, suggests that they either wanted an NDP Government, or they wanted a large enough NDP contingent to help keep the Liberals in check.

By agreeing to prop up the Libs for such a long period, with very little to show for it in return, Jagmeet has betrayed both those groups of voters.
In total agreement with above.

To reiterate “those voting for NDP were sold out. They didn’t ask to become part of a diseased Liberal gov’t, but they did when Sell-out fell into Justin’s arms”.

He will be squashed eventually, as he so richly deserves, by that boa constrictor he embraces now.
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by VaxisSafe »

Catsumi wrote: May 15th, 2022, 6:32 pm
Merry wrote: May 15th, 2022, 12:51 pm I wonder if you'd feel the same way if the NDP had agreed to prop up a Conservative Government for a few years in exchange for dental care? I suspect not.

Edited

What I'm objecting to is the agreement to support the Libs for the next three years, without really knowing what exactly it is that they will be supporting.

Propping up a minority Government for that length of time, in return for free basic dental care seems like a deal that benefits the Libs more than the NDP. And I think the NDP could, and should, have been less generous with what they were offering.


As for the comment above about not knowing what people were voting for when they voted, I think it's reasonable to assume that if they wanted a Liberal Government they would have voted Liberal. The fact they didn't, suggests that they either wanted an NDP Government, or they wanted a large enough NDP contingent to help keep the Liberals in check.

By agreeing to prop up the Libs for such a long period, with very little to show for it in return, Jagmeet has betrayed both those groups of voters.
In total agreement with above.

To reiterate “those voting for NDP were sold out. They didn’t ask to become part of a diseased Liberal gov’t, but they did when Sell-out fell into Justin’s arms”.

He will be squashed eventually, as he so richly deserves, by that boa constrictor he embraces now.
Informed Canadians know that parties collaborate. There’s literally no problem here and there’s historical precedent.
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by Merry »

erinmore3775 wrote: May 15th, 2022, 3:23 pm ^^ Well said Catri and historically accurate. Interesting point that now people you politically do not agree with have to be called traitors. I believe that the NDP /Liberal accord is best for Canada at this time. We don’t need another election.
I was a strong NDP supporter when Tom Mulcair was at the helm. I donated both my time and money, and still firmly believe he would have made a great Prime Minister. I dumped the NDP when they dumped him, because the NDP swung too far to the left for my taste.

I’m a just left of centre type when it comes to social issues, and just right of centre on fiscal issues. And I think Mulcair is about the same. But Singh is a different political animal altogether. He’s all about the environment, and little else. He clearly doesn’t care much about working class issues which, as a member of the working class, I very much DO care about.

It’s not that I don’t care about environmental issues, because I do. But, for folks like me, eating and keeping a roof over my head have to come first. And wealthy types, like Trudeau and Singh, simply don’t understand that.

It’s easy to be virtuous, and “do the right thing” when you can easily afford it. But not quite so easy for those of us who are not as wealthy as the “Trudeau’s” of this World. And people like Justin and Jaqmeet will never understand that, despite their best intentions.
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Merry
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by Merry »

VaxisSafe wrote: May 15th, 2022, 6:39 pm
Informed Canadians know that parties collaborate. There’s literally no problem here and there’s historical precedent.
Collaborating on one or two issues is one thing. But agreeing to keep a minority Government in power for the next three years is entirely another.
"In a world swathed in political correctness, the voting booth remains the final sanctuary where the people are free to speak" - Clifford Orwin
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by erinmore3775 »

Merry, I am diligently trying to understand your position. Basically it seems to be that the Liberal/NDP accord will result in uncontrolled spending and ever increasing deficits. This is because Trudeau and Singh are fat cat rich. I do not think you will find a single MP who would be worried about the cost of eating or keeping a roof over their head. https://lop.parl.ca/sites/ParlInfo/defa ... e/Salaries

If you examine the 2022 Federal Budget, which was delivered after the NDP/Liberal accord, the projected deficit is reduced and will be down to $8.4 Billion in 2027. There are new taxes, although I believe that there could have been a more significant corporate tax increase, and support for housing, environmental, and social initiatives. You seem to be focused on expenditures that will be in place by 2024 for pharma and dental care. However, these programs, in their initial outline, seem to be focused for those who are worried about the cost of food and the cost of a roof over their head. Something that may be of interest to someone whose income is considerably less than that of your local MP.

If this accord, which will be monitored by the party faithful, the Opposition, and the voters as well, is to be successful it must benefit not only the political parties but all Canadians. I prefer this socially responsible approach to a post pandemic budget than a cut and burn budget that might have been in place if another party had formed the government.

The present government, its budget, nor the accord can be blamed for the current Canadian inflation. That is a product of supply chain interruptions directly related to the pandemic and its resurgence, corporate decisions to out-source critical production, and the war in Ukraine. The accord may help provide the stability Canada will need to navigate the present economic and international conditions. The support provided by the accord can be withdrawn by either party at anytime, which would probably lead to a vote of confidence and an election.
We can’t fight homelessness, hunger, or poverty, but we can fight climate change. The juxtaposition of the now and the future, food for thought.

"You make a living by what you get; you make a life by what you give." - Winston Churchill
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Merry
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by Merry »

My position is that if Canadians had WANTED a Liberal majority government, they would have ELECTED one.
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Re: All things Jagmeet

Post by mikest2 »

:up: :up:
Merry wrote: May 16th, 2022, 8:12 am My position is that if Canadians had WANTED a Liberal majority government, they would have ELECTED one.
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...
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Re: All things Jagmeet

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Merry wrote: May 16th, 2022, 8:12 am My position is that if Canadians had WANTED a Liberal majority government, they would have ELECTED one.
Well, the Canadian voters certainly didn't want the Conservatives back in power or they would have elected them instead of the Lib/NDP government we have now.

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