Is the HST gone?

[sooperphreek]

how exactly have we hurt ourselves? that 1.6 billion would have been in the pockets of business anyways. in the end it was a waste either way. i think we will be better off when we create a HST that makes sense and had some critical thought that went into its creation.

[Dash5]

Regardless of whether we'd fare better with or without the HST, I do agree with those who say there was a bigger picture here. And that was the importance of sending Governments the message that we're sick and tired of being lied to.

Unfortunately an important referendum on taxation reform was absolutely the wrong way to send that message!! A classic case of cutting off your nose to spite your face!

The sad irony is that eventually the federal government will mandate all provinces inplement an HST and we'll have to go through it all over again (minus the $1.5 billion dollars we got last time that now has to be paid back).

But hey at least a haircut will cost me $1.05 less now.....oh nevermind, the babershop just raised their prices accordingly!

[neroas]

Pretty ignorant to believe they pass the savings on to the customer.

[Glacier]

Regardless of whether we'd fare better with or without the HST, I do agree with those who say there was a bigger picture here. And that was the importance of sending Governments the message that we're sick and tired of being lied to.

You usually make good points with well reasoned arguments, but on this one you have dropped the ball. The time to "send the government a message" is May 2013. I don't know if you noticed, but there was not one question on the ballot about lying. Rather, the ballot was painfully clear, asking British Columbians a question on the HST, not a question of their like or dislike of the government. The message the "no" vote gave the government is that people did not like the tax. Period. If the people truly wanted to send the government a message, they would have signed the recall petitions, which they did not.

Let's pretend that Bill Vanderzalm got his way and abortions were made illegal in this province. Then a new government comes into power promising not to bring back "a woman's right to choose," but then they get elected and say, "haha, only kidding." Let's say the people get all upset about the government lying to them, so they have a referendum. Let's say the majority of the population are pro-choice, but since they want to send the government a message, they vote in favour of keeping abortion illegal because sending the government a message is more important than what one believes to be right.

This is the kind of reasoning you are advocating in your post. Voting against the HST when you are actually in favour of it is about is idiotic as voting against abortion when you are actually in favour of it.

[Urbane]

You usually make good points with well reasoned arguments, but on this one you have dropped the ball. The time to "send the government a message" is May 2013. I don't know if you noticed, but there was not one question on the ballot about lying. Rather, the ballot was painfully clear, asking British Columbians a question on the HST, not a question of their like or dislike of the HST. The message the "no" vote gave the government is that people did not like the tax. Period. If the people truly wanted to send the government a message, they would have signed the recall petitions, which they did not.

Let's pretend that Bill Vanderzalm got his way and abortions were made illegal in this province. Then a new government comes into power promising not to bring back "a woman's right to choose," but then they get elected and say, "haha, only kidding." Let's say the people get all upset about the government lying to them, so they have a referendum. Let's say the majority of the population are pro-choice, but since they want to send the government a message, they vote in favour of keeping abortion illegal because sending the government a message is more important than what one believes to be right.

This is the kind of reasoning you are advocating in your post.

[Gone_Fishin]

Regardless of whether we'd fare better with or without the HST, I do agree with those who say there was a bigger picture here. And that was the importance of sending Governments the message that we're sick and tired of being lied to.
Governments of all stripes seem to feel it's perfectly OK to lie to their electorate whenever it's politically expedient for them to do so, and if we are to protect democracy in this country it's essential we find a way to stop this repugnant practise.
If eliminating the HST was the price we had to pay, then I think it was the right decision.
Not that I expect that decision in and of itself to stop politicians from lying; but it might be an important first step!

That's the worst way to "send a message" we could ever have chosen. It's like saying "Here, kick my teeth out, because I have one that's sensitive to ice cream."

[NAB]

Talking about public messaging between business, the electorate, and the government related to the HST, that dialogue took place long ago IMO - starting in the summer/fall of 2009 and pretty much ending when Gordon Campbell threw in the towel, gave up, and announced that the electorate would be allowed to make the decision based on a simple majority vote rather than following the law for such things. That decision (again IMO), plus the decision by his successor Christy Clark to continue down the same path mapped out by Campbell effectively sealed the fate of the HST in BC. Message received by the government, acted on, and done with - there is no further message related to HST to be delivered to the current government via the election next month.

As with all elections, the bulk of any messaging prior to the vote will be from the political parties down to the electorate, not from the electorate up to government ("government " ceases to exist when the writ is dropped) ..... culminating in some percentage of the electorate making a personal decision and marking their ballots, each according to their own criteria for making such decisions - or even voting at all. What follows is simple math, endless analysis by the winners and losers, and of course a whole range of politically expedient excuses from both the politicians and core supporters as to why the math went any particular way.

There's no specific one off message to or from anyone in that exercise specifically related "only" to the HST, punishment of a government specifically because of it, or anything else along such simplistic lines. Instead, voters will look at the entire package, the ideology of each party, and vote either for or against a change in overall direction.

It will be up to each of the political parties (and their leadership) as to how accurately they have read the electorate's majority desire for change or no change, and delivered their message after the writ is dropped accordingly .....and believably. And let's not forget that, after all is said and done, and IF a majority of the electorate is desirous of change, .....the Liberals are now on an equal footing with respect to producing that change themselves rather than letting "the other party" run with it.

Sadly, IF - repeat IF, the majority of the electorate have decided change is necessary on a long list of issues, there is little evidence that the Liberal Party accept that, or are even capable of changing themselves if they do.... in spite of having had over 4 years and a crumbling right wing of the coalition to do so.

As of this morning, the NDP have stated that in the event they get to form the next government for BC they will not re-introduce the HST. The Liberals have already stated some time ago that they would not (do we believe them???). What the BC Conservatives say about it is largely irrelevant as they will not get to form government anyway, even though it would be a fair assumption that if they did form government they would be the one's most likely to re-introduce HST in BC.

In the meantime, it is my view that now we have returned to the PST and eliminated the HST there is a better than average chance we can expect a strong and immediate upswing in the provincial economy as a result... regardless of which party forms the next government. Enjoy! : -)

Nab

[sooperphreek]

there should be more direct democracy on issues in this province and country. rather than back room deals and lobbying from big business that can be heralded as educated decisions.

[Captain Awesome]

I voted against HST simply because of how they brought in the new tax. No respect for the voters, we voted them in, and they just turn around and tax us. What's up with that?

They should have brought this tax in civilly, like they do with other taxes. We should have voted on this issue - like we do on all the other taxes - and decide collectively that we do indeed need it. And if we all decided that this new tax is a good thing - hey, majority wins. They should have more respect for us because they work for us. After all, any time they bump the income taxes up, property taxes go up, and other taxes go up - we're all happy. But this new time was complete BS that's what it is!

[Urbane]

there should be more direct democracy on issues in this province and country. rather than back room deals and lobbying from big business that can be heralded as educated decisions.

After watching the anti-HST campaign and the hoodwinking of the electorate I'd have to say that direct democracy is highly overrated.

[Dash5]

there should be more direct democracy on issues in this province and country. rather than back room deals and lobbying from big business that can be heralded as educated decisions.

Yes, lets just make all government descisions by clicking a "like" button on Facebook!

[Dash5]

After watching the anti-HST campaign and the hoodwinking of the electorate I'd have to say that direct democracy is highly overrated.

Sad but true. Would probably be safe to say that more than 75% of those that voted to abolish the HST had absolutely no idea what it was specifically they were voting for (or against). This is becoming painfully evident after reading some of the uninformed comments from people on various forums and social media sites now that we have reverted back to the PST/GST.

[RichardW]

i think we will be better off when we create a HST that makes sense and had some critical thought that went into its creation.

Well, the whole point of the harmonised sales tax is that it 'harmonises' federal and provincial sales tax, and further harmonises sales tax between the provinces (eventually, when all the provinces adopt it). What sort of critical thought do you think could go into its creation that could make it better?

[RichardW]

I voted against HST simply because of how they brought in the new tax. No respect for the voters, we voted them in, and they just turn around and tax us. What's up with that?

That would have been a good way to vote if the question was 'Did you like the way we brought in the new tax?'

It seems all the more obtuse when I recall that you said you don't mind the HST in a thread some time ago.

[Glacier]

I'm 98.65% certain that Captain Awesome was being sarcastic.