Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

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alanjh595
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by alanjh595 »

butcher99 wrote: Sep 14th, 2021, 6:16 pm Required to participate normally in society? Hardly. It is only required if you want to go to sporting events, gyms, bars and restaurants. I doubt I will ever use mine. Maybe to go to a restaurant. Possibly a music festival.

One could actually live quite a full life without a vaccine passport. It is not required for anything that "normal" life requires. You just have to cut out a few extra curricular activities like going to bars or sporting events. I guess it depends on how strong your beliefs are that the vaccine is harmful and how much you want to go to a bar on whether you bite the bullet or not.
Exactly, good post butcher.
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rustled
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by rustled »

butcher99 wrote: Sep 14th, 2021, 7:49 pm
rustled wrote: Sep 14th, 2021, 7:42 pm What I've been pointing out is how the mixed messaging, partisan game-playing, and prioritizing political correctness over public health have all fed the distrust of some of the people I know who refuse to be vaccinated. How this vaxport is "more of same" in their eyes - it's not so much designed to keep people safe, as it is to force them into compliance - and why that's a problem for all of us.
A lot of that was because they were afraid to make a group of people so angry that they would blame it all on the government and refuse to go along. *bleep* footing I think you could call it. Did not work so well.
As for forcing compliance, it is a passive way to gain compliance. Not sure about force. It is working though. There is that.
There has been an uptick in the number going in for vaccinations.
The uptick - I mentioned earlier that about half of the people I know who had refused vaccines will likely get them now that they have to in order to enjoy participating in normal social activities. Those were not the people who were refusing vaccines out of increasing distrust for authority.

There is no legitimate excuse for some of what our politicians and those speaking as authorities about Covid (WHO, Dr. Tam, Dr. Henry, Dr. Fauci) and various celebrities and the media have done and failed to do. The unvaccinated are currently being scapegoated for the consequences of those folks' partisan-game-playing, their fear-mongering, their mixed messaging, and their "kitty-footing" around (love how the word censor bleeps what you wrote! too funny). The failure of people in positions of responsibility to act in our best interests has long-term effects on those who distrust authority, and that has long-term consequences for all of us.
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alanjh595
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by alanjh595 »

It must be real tough living with paranoid schizophrenia.
Schizophrenia is a complex mental health disorder that affects an individual's ability to think, feel, behave, and relate to others. The condition has several possible causes, including genetics and environmental influences, abnormal brain chemistry, stress, and history of mind-altering drug abuse.

Symptoms usually begin between the ages of 16 and 30. There are no lab tests available to detect schizophrenia. Diagnosis is a complex process due to the relapse and remission cycles of the disease. However, doctors can evaluate a variety of symptoms, categorized as positive, negative, and cognitive, to determine a schizophrenia diagnosis.
There are 9 other recognizable symptoms of this disorder, and all of them can be seen in the anti-vaxx/anti-passport group.
I am somewhat surprised at how many of them that are living amongst us and probably living normal lives under non-stressful conditions of day to day living. They can be viewed here: https://facty.com/conditions/schizophre ... k7EALw_wcB

It takes something like a pandemic to start to show the extent of the number of repressed mentally ill, that are undiagnosed and untreated.
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butcher99
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by butcher99 »

rustled wrote: Sep 14th, 2021, 7:59 pm
The uptick - I mentioned earlier that about half of the people I know who had refused vaccines will likely get them now that they have to in order to enjoy participating in normal social activities. Those were not the people who were refusing vaccines out of increasing distrust for authority.

There is no legitimate excuse for some of what our politicians and those speaking as authorities about Covid (WHO, Dr. Tam, Dr. Henry, Dr. Fauci) and various celebrities and the media have done and failed to do. The unvaccinated are currently being scapegoated for the consequences of those folks' partisan-game-playing, their fear-mongering, their mixed messaging, and their "kitty-footing" around (love how the word censor bleeps what you wrote! too funny). The failure of people in positions of responsibility to act in our best interests has long-term effects on those who distrust authority, and that has long-term consequences for all of us.
I don't think they were failing to act in our best interests. They were working with what they knew at the time. Pretty much they were right on. Would they do some things different if they could do them again. Sure. From what they knew, they were working on our best interests, to the best of their knowledge. As they say, hindsite is 20-20.
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Silverstarqueen
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by Silverstarqueen »

They were also dealing with a small number of sh*t disturbers who just keep churning out the misinformation and like to interfere with the rest of us just trying to deal with a very challenging situation. Something akin to those who try to continually set spot-fires in the middle of a drought.
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by dodgerdodge »

butcher99 wrote: Sep 14th, 2021, 7:30 pm
dodgerdodge wrote: Sep 14th, 2021, 6:52 pm

I pondered on this for a while earlier whilst sat in McDonalds having a healthy meal (ok that bit wasn't true) They are not in any kind of restriction regarding numbers or seat spacing. All seats and tables were able to be used and no screens between any booths. All people seated were of course without masks. No signs on door restricting numbers and no need for vax passport unvaccinated welcome, just come on in, order, sit and enjoy with lots of others. Of course don't dare get up from your table without putting that mask on we don't want to infect anyone we might pass in a nano second on our way to the door. But please don't try this if the eating establishment is NOT a take away because you cannot possibly enter without your vaccination record, good god why would you even try? how many innocent diners will you infect with your ridiculous behavior? [icon_lol2.gif]
You maybe none. Maybe no one in that restaurant. However once again, it is not about you it is about everyone. Lets say one of those 750 new infections per day comes in with the highly infectious delta strain. Sits down, takes off his mask, eats his healthy burger, gets up forgets his mask or refused to put it on, and coughs on the way out.
We could be in the same straights as Alberta. But we are not. Thanks to all these measures. The health minister in Alberta appologized today for not taking covid seriously enough back in July.
The vaccination rate in Alberta is lower but not a lot. It is about 150,000 doses per 100,000 people in BC and 130,000 in Alberta. The big difference is BC put in place the mask requirements and social distancing again when Delta started to take hold.. Alberta did not. Those things are adding up to less cases.

Now, they are locking the proverbial barn door after the horse has gone. 1500 new cases in Alberta. 5000 new cases over 3 days.
12% positivity when tested.
BC has 675 new cases and the rate of infection has not just leveled off but is falling again. In Alberta they are seeing higher numbers every day.
Again, the difference? Masks and social distancing as well as a slightly higher rate of vaccination in BC. Thats it. All those things some people here are saying make no difference.
BTW, Saskatchewan is in the same straits now. Same thing. Fewer vaccinations and a total easing of restrictions.
Oh yeah that slim chance. Guess there was no chance of them coughing whilst seated unmasked close to other people?
This is where it starts to get a bit silly. Before when we had severe number restrictions and less tables in these places i could see there may be a point but since this rule disappeared masking up to and from table seems a pointless exercise especially given that a passing glance is NOT listed as a cause for concern with getting infected. Walking past someone in a store or sit down restaurant is not the same as sitting within close proximity for long periods. From CDC:
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention used 6 feet for distance and 15 minutes for length of exposure as preconditions that would make it less likely that someone was exposed to enough virus to cause an infection, says Stanford University infectious disease fellow Dr. Abraar Karan
FreeSpirit4Ever
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by FreeSpirit4Ever »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 8:25 am
FreeSpirit4Ever wrote: Sep 12th, 2021, 10:48 pm

I don’t think anybody here is disputing the fact that people who haven’t taken the vaccine can catch Covid. Being purposefully obtuse does not represent any rational point of view At all. Maybe actually address the issue which is 182 fully vaccinated people caught Covid. Obviously the vaccine is not working.
So don't be obtuse then. A covid case of the sniffles is not the same as a serious covid case that puts someone in the hospital or ICU. Those who are vaccinated are far more likely to have a mild case (if they even get a breakthru case), than UN vaccinated, who are far more likely to end up in hospital or ICU. Which proves the vaccine IS working.
https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellne ... try-679207
Didn’t work for 182 people in that example. You are aware that double vaccinated people have died in the ICU from COVID-19 aren’t you? Now go move another goal post.
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by FreeSpirit4Ever »

butcher99 wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 8:33 am
FreeSpirit4Ever wrote: Sep 12th, 2021, 10:48 pm

I don’t think anybody here is disputing the fact that people who haven’t taken the vaccine can catch Covid. Being purposefully obtuse does not represent any rational point of view At all. Maybe actually address the issue which is 182 fully vaccinated people caught Covid. Obviously the vaccine is not working.

The vaccine works. Period. No vaccine is 100% effective. Well very very few. Against the original covid strains the vaccine is 95% effective. The number for delta is down to 65-70%. So yes vaccinated people can catch Covid. Few vaccinated people catch it than unvaccinated. Results if you get covid and are vaccinated are much better than for unvaccinated.
An equation has two sides. You are just looking at one.
I believe you are just looking at one side have you checked out the 14,000+ side effects some of them very serious and the deaths that have occurred from the vaccine? Why would anybody risk that to take a vaccine that might work some of the time, could work none of the time and the goal posts keep moving, and it’s 1 to 2% of people who get the virus that actually die. Not to mention that double vaccinated people have died So there is no guarantee I think that’s the side that you need to look at. And then there’s that pesky question of why nurses don’t want to take this vaccine and are threatening to walk out on their job. What do they know that they aren’t saying out loud? All the signs are there that many people are not seeing them
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by FreeSpirit4Ever »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 8:15 pm
FreeSpirit4Ever wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 7:53 pm

Your assumption that people can “change their vaccination status within 15 minutes” is Not true. Even Bonnie Henry today said there are exemptions for vaccinations but maybe you know something she doesn’t.
Don't be stupid, we have said over and over that people who have a medical reason for exemption should be exempt. This has been stated all along, we don't have to repeat it every time we talk about vaccination requirements. And if people choose not to get vaccinated, that's fine too, but there will be consequences. Henry also said that, so as long as we are now following her lead, let's do that.
“Don’t be stupid”? Sounds like you were on the debating team. Triggered much?
kdotnet
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by kdotnet »

kdotnet wrote: Sep 14th, 2021, 1:05 pm I’ve asked several times why those hesitant to get this vaccine have not done so. The only replies I’ve ever seen is regurgitation of false information from discredited sources or old out dated information. Other than an ‘I’m afraid of the unknown’ is there an actual reason? Millions of doctors give the thumbs up yet people would rather believe the boogeyman. Mystifying really.
Well, two more pages of banter since I asked this question yet again not one sane reason provided by the antivaxxers to not get vaccinated. Just more conspiracy theory nonsense. The latest being the govt is out to get me. Dig deep. There’s gotta be one out there.
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by foenix »

Rejigger wrote: Sep 14th, 2021, 10:43 pm
foenix wrote: Sep 14th, 2021, 9:57 pm Here right from your link.......seems the vaccinated are more protected than the unvaxxed from Covid like I' ve been saying.

Data_summary_0907.jpeg

So yeah JT is right in pushing the vaccines to the Canadians as it is saving lives and keeping them from serious harm.
Your question was, "Then what do you mean by the vaccines not protecting the elderly because if they weren't protected from these breakthrough cases, shouldnt they be dying or winding up in the hospital if the vaccines weren't protecting them from the exposures to these breakout cases?"

I answered your questions with data specific to the elderly. You are choosing to ignore the actual numbers.

According to the BC CDC's own data, 20 deaths were of vaxxed/partial vaxxed and 19 deaths were of unvaxxed for all ages.
Furthermore, for ages 60 and up, 19 of those deaths were of vaxxed/partial vaxxed and 12 were of unvaxxed.
More deaths in 60+ amongst the vaccinated than the unvaccinated by 19 to 12.

And MORE deaths occurred amongst the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. Just like what was happening in Israel last month.
It's the same misleading use of the data as the Israeli and the UK study where the majority of the vaxxed deaths were with the over 80s group. The oned that were mostly in LTC facilities with other comorbidities. That's who this disease takes out first, the 80s and over with comorbidities. If this group catches the infection, it's basically a death sentence and doesn't matter if they are double vaxxed or not. So basically, among the vaxxed, the majority of the deaths occurred in the over 80's group (about 13).
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Also, we already know, the vaccines are less effective against the Delta and the deaths among the vaccinated will be skewed for the simple reason that there are waaay more vaccinated people than not (unvaxxed = 27% vs 73%)......so what you are doing, comparing deaths between the unvaxxed and the vaxxed is an apple to orange comparison
More vaccinated people are dying of COVID than unvaccinated people, according to a recent report from Public Health England (PHE). The report shows that 163 of the 257 people (63.4%) who died of the delta variant within 28 days of a positive COVID test between February 1 and June 21, had received at least one dose of the vaccine. At first glance, this may seem alarming, but it is exactly as would be expected.

Here’s a simple thought experiment: imagine everyone is now fully vaccinated with COVID vaccines – which are excellent but can’t save all lives. Some people who get infected with COVID will still die. All of these people will be fully vaccinated – 100%. That doesn’t mean vaccines aren’t effective at reducing death.

The risk of dying from COVID doubles roughly every seven years older a patient is. The 35-year difference between a 35-year-old and a 70-year-old means the risk of death between the two patients has doubled five times – equivalently it has increased by a factor of 32. An unvaccinated 70-year-old might be 32 times more likely to die of COVID than an unvaccinated 35-year-old.

This dramatic variation of the risk profile with age means that even excellent vaccines don’t reduce the risk of death for older people to below the risk for some younger demographics.

PHE data suggests that being double vaccinated reduces the risk of being hospitalised with the now-dominant delta variant by around 96%. Even conservatively assuming the vaccines are no more effective at preventing death than hospitalisation (actually they are likely to be more effective at preventing death) this means the risk of death for double vaccinated people has been cut to less than one-twentieth of the value for unvaccinated people with the same underlying risk profile.

However, the 20-fold decrease in risk afforded by the vaccine isn’t enough to offset the 32-fold increase in underlying risk of death of an 70-year-old over a 35-year-old.
https://www.livemint.com/science/health ... 87076.html

....and yes if one looks at the death graph vs time, seems to me the vaccines have helped the elderly from dying compared to the earlier period when there were no vaccines.
g.png
....and here's more good news.....
- A third dose of Pfizer (PFE.N)/BioNTech's (22UAy.DE) COVID-19 vaccine was found to be 86% effective in people aged over 60, an Israeli healthcare provider said on Wednesday, citing initial results from a study of thousands of members.......

Some 37 people tested positive for coronavirus after their third jab, compared with 1,064 positive cases among those who had received only two doses, Maccabi said in a statement. The comparison groups had similar demographic profiles, it added......

Pfizer has said that its vaccine's efficacy drops over time, and that a third dose showed significantly higher neutralising antibodies against the initial SARS-CoV-2 virus as well as against the Beta and highly infectious Delta variants.
https://www.reuters.com/business/health ... 021-08-18/
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alanjh595
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by alanjh595 »

Capture 3.JPG
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Capture2.JPG
Not looking so good for un-vaccinated, 19-39 year olds, living in the C.OK right now.
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Beerhunter341
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by Beerhunter341 »

alanjh595 wrote: Sep 15th, 2021, 6:10 am Capture 3.JPG
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Capture2.JPG

Not looking so good for un-vaccinated, 19-39 year olds, living in the C.OK right now.
I must be missing something because I do not see a differential between vaxxed and unvaxxed in these charts. I could be missing it. It is still early and I haven't had my coffee yet.
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alanjh595
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by alanjh595 »

I was working on it.
You know you could just look it up yourself?
http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/disease ... tionreport

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Kenbell58
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Re: Coronavirus/Variants/Vaccine/Masks

Post by Kenbell58 »

Would those who haven’t yet, please get a COVID 19 vaccine shot. It’s for you, your family and fellow man.

If you choose not to because you’re smarter than science itself, then without bitterness accept that the rest of us want to dine in a safe environment, hang out in safe gatherings and watch a movie with fully vaccinated people.

You others who are not vaccinated can stay home and order delivery food and watch tv.

Or read some stats on the web showing that the vaccines do work.

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