Diabetes

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hozzle
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Re: Diabetes

Post by hozzle »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Apr 20th, 2022, 7:27 am ...The practices of some keto dieters, such as having a cream laden cafe latte for breakfast, does not make sense to me, and not many societies did well with practices like that. Without much research, thousands of people are doing this sort of thing, and I am concerned that we could see some bad effects 50 years from now. Sure, if you are running marathons, high fat might work, but the vast majority are still sitting at home, and might work out 30 min or take a jog, not the same thing. Maybe it's safe, definitely there should be more research of large numbers of people over longer times before this diet is endorsed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQt4CNnCyUg&t=22s
You do realize that the Keto diet is basically a rebranding of the Atkins diet, and that was introduced 50yrs ago.
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DanMidtdal
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Re: Diabetes

Post by DanMidtdal »

The key to avoiding Diabetes is to avoid sugar in all its forms particularly High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS), avoiding drinking juices but rather to eat the whole fruit instead and to avoid highly refined foods and instead eat whole foods that contain the complete fiber and nutrient package.
Around the globe the people eating traditional diets (whether high or low carb) did not encounter the diseases of our modern era until they switched to the staples of the SAD diet, ie. pasta, wonder bread, breakfast cereals and sweetened drinks.
As I mentioned earlier, resistance to carbohydrates is a spectrum with degrees of tolerance across that spectrum.
If you follow Robert Lustig Jr. he has proven that carbs will make you fat but sugar will make you sick.
One of the principals that Jason Fung advocates for is to reduce the insulin spikes caused by calorie dense foods such as that breakfast muffin, cereal or a bagel. High carbohydrates will have you looking for more food within hours whereas fat (olive oil, butter etc.) will keep you satisfied. We are designed to burn fat, that is why it is used for storage in our bodies because it is so efficient. Cabohydrates on the other hand have very limited storage capacity in the liver as glycogen and will not last more than about 12 hours before the glycogen can be depleted and the body then must turn to stored fat for energy.
By becoming Keto adapted, the body always runs on fat. Eating too many carbs can easily disrupt that process, driving up insulin which then tells the body to convert the glucose to fat and store it.
To help understand the intricacies of the process Jason Fung's book series, The Obesity Code, The Diabetes Code and The Cancer Code are all good information.
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hozzle
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Re: Diabetes

Post by hozzle »

DanMidtdal wrote: Apr 20th, 2022, 9:19 am The key to avoiding Diabetes is to avoid sugar in all its forms particularly High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS), avoiding drinking juices but rather to eat the whole fruit instead and to avoid highly refined foods and instead eat whole foods that contain the complete fiber and nutrient package.
Around the globe the people eating traditional diets (whether high or low carb) did not encounter the diseases of our modern era until they switched to the staples of the SAD diet, ie. pasta, wonder bread, breakfast cereals and sweetened drinks.
As I mentioned earlier, resistance to carbohydrates is a spectrum with degrees of tolerance across that spectrum.
If you follow Robert Lustig Jr. he has proven that carbs will make you fat but sugar will make you sick.
One of the principals that Jason Fung advocates for is to reduce the insulin spikes caused by calorie dense foods such as that breakfast muffin, cereal or a bagel. High carbohydrates will have you looking for more food within hours whereas fat (olive oil, butter etc.) will keep you satisfied. We are designed to burn fat, that is why it is used for storage in our bodies because it is so efficient. Cabohydrates on the other hand have very limited storage capacity in the liver as glycogen and will not last more than about 12 hours before the glycogen can be depleted and the body then must turn to stored fat for energy.
By becoming Keto adapted, the body always runs on fat. Eating too many carbs can easily disrupt that process, driving up insulin which then tells the body to convert the glucose to fat and store it.
To help understand the intricacies of the process Jason Fung's book series, The Obesity Code, The Diabetes Code and The Cancer Code are all good information.
:up: :up: :up: Food for thought, Thanks.
I'm made of rubber, you're made of glue. The garbage you say bounces off me and… oh, crap... then the powers that be censor me.
Silverstarqueen
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Re: Diabetes

Post by Silverstarqueen »

hozzle wrote: Apr 20th, 2022, 8:33 am
Silverstarqueen wrote: Apr 20th, 2022, 7:27 am ...The practices of some keto dieters, such as having a cream laden cafe latte for breakfast, does not make sense to me, and not many societies did well with practices like that. Without much research, thousands of people are doing this sort of thing, and I am concerned that we could see some bad effects 50 years from now. Sure, if you are running marathons, high fat might work, but the vast majority are still sitting at home, and might work out 30 min or take a jog, not the same thing. Maybe it's safe, definitely there should be more research of large numbers of people over longer times before this diet is endorsed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQt4CNnCyUg&t=22s
You do realize that the Keto diet is basically a rebranding of the Atkins diet, and that was introduced 50yrs ago.
You do realize Atkins diet is not Keto.
Are there any studies done over a period of 50 years, on Atkins or Keto diets?
Health effects on various organs can take years to show up. When people first started smoking tobacco on a wide scale, how long did it take to prove it was having an effect of heart disease, lung cancer, deaths due to respiratory illness?
Someone once said, without evidence it's just anecdotal. Same goes for declaring that these various diets do not have some bad effects, as yet unproven. There really needs to be large scale, longer term studies on the health effects of various diets, if any.
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DanMidtdal
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Re: Diabetes

Post by DanMidtdal »

Robert Lustig Jr recently lectured at the University in Winnipeg on Sugar. He is an Endocrinologist and knows his stuff.
The research on diet is ongoing but much of the early work was funded by Big Food and Big Sugar so they were able to skew the results much as did the tobacco industry back in the day. My wife tried to link us to the lectures on Zoom but she could not get it to work. We have not watched the lecture yet but we will cast the lecture to our tv and enjoy it from there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Ds1XcIGro
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hozzle
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Re: Diabetes

Post by hozzle »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Apr 20th, 2022, 1:27 pm
hozzle wrote: Apr 20th, 2022, 8:33 am
You do realize that the Keto diet is basically a rebranding of the Atkins diet, and that was introduced 50yrs ago.
You do realize Atkins diet is not Keto.
Are there any studies done over a period of 50 years, on Atkins or Keto diets?
Health effects on various organs can take years to show up. When people first started smoking tobacco on a wide scale, how long did it take to prove it was having an effect of heart disease, lung cancer, deaths due to respiratory illness?
Someone once said, without evidence it's just anecdotal. Same goes for declaring that these various diets do not have some bad effects, as yet unproven. There really needs to be large scale, longer term studies on the health effects of various diets, if any.
I am fully aware of what I said and it can pass scrutiny by professionals.... but by all means continue you high carb diet.

Here is a perfect example of med professionals dismissing new research only to be adopted as current science.
https://youtu.be/J6JrHteOsII
I'm made of rubber, you're made of glue. The garbage you say bounces off me and… oh, crap... then the powers that be censor me.
Grandan
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Re: Diabetes

Post by Grandan »

hozzle wrote: Apr 20th, 2022, 3:25 pm
Silverstarqueen wrote: Apr 20th, 2022, 1:27 pm
You do realize Atkins diet is not Keto.
Are there any studies done over a period of 50 years, on Atkins or Keto diets?
Health effects on various organs can take years to show up. When people first started smoking tobacco on a wide scale, how long did it take to prove it was having an effect of heart disease, lung cancer, deaths due to respiratory illness?
Someone once said, without evidence it's just anecdotal. Same goes for declaring that these various diets do not have some bad effects, as yet unproven. There really needs to be large scale, longer term studies on the health effects of various diets, if any.
I am fully aware of what I said and it can pass scrutiny by professionals.... but by all means continue you high carb diet.

Here is a perfect example of med professionals dismissing new research only to be adopted as current science.
https://youtu.be/J6JrHteOsII
He pretty well nailed it. I have been gluten zero for over 25 years. I was tested for celiac and was negative. My doctor was skeptical but said it would not harm me to stop gluten. I have endured decades of skepticism, endless waitstaff who sent out the specialist to have a chat with me about gluten, well meaning people who snuck gluten into my food, “a little bit won’t hurt you”, finding myself at a party where virtually everything had gluten in it except the cheese and broccoli.
I own two books he presented, Grain Brain and Wheat Belly. One daughter went to see Alesio Fasono in Baltimore when she lived in Frederick Ma. and the minute she walked in the door without any further examination he told her she had Celiac Disease because she had all the classic outward signs, her skin was broken out in nasty acne like lesions. She stopped gluten then and there and recovered but is scarred for life from those lesions.
I read that Fasano predicted that 30% of Americans are intolerant to gluten, it may in fact be much higher. I am happy that this topic has been brought into the discussion. Thanks Hozzle!
If anyone in your family circle, uncles, aunts, cousins, parents or grandparents have a problem with gluten then you are at risk. If you try to get tested you could be in for a long wait to get tested and then risk a false negative and lead you to believe you are safe. Best stop gluten and wait for the results to speak for themselves.
Waste not
Silverstarqueen
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Re: Diabetes

Post by Silverstarqueen »

It's not that difficult to get a test for gluten sensitivity, so I would say, test first because if it is positive, there's no debate with a doctor. Just quitting the gluten ahead of time will cause a negative test anyway in many cases.
At any rate it is not a medical condition, so most doctors aren't too concerned, the solution is like any other allergy: avoid the allergen. I've tried months with, and months without wheat gluten, no difference whatso ever for me. So that's another pretty easy way to test that anyone can do.
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hozzle
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Re: Diabetes

Post by hozzle »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Apr 21st, 2022, 8:20 am It's not that difficult to get a test for gluten sensitivity, so I would say, test first because if it is positive, there's no debate with a doctor. Just quitting the gluten ahead of time will cause a negative test anyway in many cases.
At any rate it is not a medical condition, so most doctors aren't too concerned, the solution is like any other allergy: avoid the allergen. I've tried months with, and months without wheat gluten, no difference whatso ever for me. So that's another pretty easy way to test that anyone can do.
Not exactly... there is scientific data that indicates any gluten will affect healthy adults, it can be exasperated by the consumption of excess lectin. Separately or combined, both can lead to leaky gut syndrome. Intestinal barrier dysfunction can lead to diabetes. Both have recently been discovered to affect the brain (dementia, Alzheimer's, etc.) thru the blood stream and/or the nervous system due to the leaky gut.
Healthy adults that show no signs of celiac syndrome do have internal markers indicating the affect of gluten in the system, but if you continue with the advise of "most doctors aren't too concerned" go right ahead but I wouldn't advise it.
I'm made of rubber, you're made of glue. The garbage you say bounces off me and… oh, crap... then the powers that be censor me.
Grandan
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Re: Diabetes

Post by Grandan »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Apr 21st, 2022, 8:20 am It's not that difficult to get a test for gluten sensitivity, so I would say, test first because if it is positive, there's no debate with a doctor. Just quitting the gluten ahead of time will cause a negative test anyway in many cases.
At any rate it is not a medical condition, so most doctors aren't too concerned, the solution is like any other allergy: avoid the allergen. I've tried months with, and months without wheat gluten, no difference whatso ever for me. So that's another pretty easy way to test that anyone can do.
When I was tested I had been off gluten for some months so it was no surprise that I was negative.
I disagree with the suggestion that it is not a medical condition. People die from this condition and some doctors miss the diagnosis entirely. Children starve because they cannot get enough nutrients.
Avoiding gluten is not as easy as it sounds and involves education and scrupulously reading labels for hidden sources of gluten. It is much better now than it was 25 years ago but the level of gluten in some products is an arbitrary amount that may still affect those who are sensitive. My doctor questioned my choices, it may be different now but at the time it was a big deal.
Sensitivity can change over time, I was fine for years but my sensitivity grew with the food pyramid suggesting more grains and we ate a lot of home baked bread, pizza and other baked goods.
Waste not
Grandan
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Re: Diabetes

Post by Grandan »

hozzle wrote: Apr 21st, 2022, 10:50 am
Silverstarqueen wrote: Apr 21st, 2022, 8:20 am It's not that difficult to get a test for gluten sensitivity, so I would say, test first because if it is positive, there's no debate with a doctor. Just quitting the gluten ahead of time will cause a negative test anyway in many cases.
At any rate it is not a medical condition, so most doctors aren't too concerned, the solution is like any other allergy: avoid the allergen. I've tried months with, and months without wheat gluten, no difference whatso ever for me. So that's another pretty easy way to test that anyone can do.
Not exactly... there is scientific data that indicates any gluten will affect healthy adults, it can be exasperated by the consumption of excess lectin. Separately or combined, both can lead to leaky gut syndrome. Intestinal barrier dysfunction can lead to diabetes. Both have recently been discovered to affect the brain (dementia, Alzheimer's, etc.) thru the blood stream and/or the nervous system due to the leaky gut.
Healthy adults that show no signs of celiac syndrome do have internal markers indicating the affect of gluten in the system, but if you continue with the advise of "most doctors aren't too concerned" go right ahead but I wouldn't advise it.


Well said. Leaky gut is a catastrophe and can lead to autoimmune diseases. Doctors miss diagnosing all sorts of diseases. My wife went to see her doctor with a sore toe. Her doctor sent her to a podiatrist who wanted to sell her a set of $400 inserts, my wife said no. She did some research and discovered it was gout. She had her doctor order a test and her Uric acid was sky high. She had to drop sugar and wine, her system couldn’t handle it. Younger women can handle it but as you get older your metabolism changes (estrogen levels drop) and previously benign substances can affect you differently.
Waste not
Silverstarqueen
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Re: Diabetes

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Grandan wrote: Apr 21st, 2022, 12:31 pm
Silverstarqueen wrote: Apr 21st, 2022, 8:20 am It's not that difficult to get a test for gluten sensitivity, so I would say, test first because if it is positive, there's no debate with a doctor. Just quitting the gluten ahead of time will cause a negative test anyway in many cases.
At any rate it is not a medical condition, so most doctors aren't too concerned, the solution is like any other allergy: avoid the allergen. I've tried months with, and months without wheat gluten, no difference whatso ever for me. So that's another pretty easy way to test that anyone can do.
When I was tested I had been off gluten for some months so it was no surprise that I was negative.
I disagree with the suggestion that it is not a medical condition. People die from this condition and some doctors miss the diagnosis entirely. Children starve because they cannot get enough nutrients.
Avoiding gluten is not as easy as it sounds and involves education and scrupulously reading labels for hidden sources of gluten. It is much better now than it was 25 years ago but the level of gluten in some products is an arbitrary amount that may still affect those who are sensitive. My doctor questioned my choices, it may be different now but at the time it was a big deal.
Sensitivity can change over time, I was fine for years but my sensitivity grew with the food pyramid suggesting more grains and we ate a lot of home baked bread, pizza and other baked goods.
To claify, I meant that just having gluten sensitivity was not a medical condition.
Celiac disease is a medical condition and this can result in serious health effects.

hozzle's suggestion that someone like myself, who has no symptoms after months with gluten in my diet, no difference without gluten in my diet, should be concerned about the "dangers" of gluten is ridiculous. As has been mentioned, people who are affected, have digestive, weight gain problems, brain fog, possibly inflammation, and find that a gluten free diet soon makes them feel much better. I do not question that. I do question that a person like myself who feels fine on my current diet, did not feel any worse or any better with or without gluten, should be concerned with this (nor should my doctor). If someone just prefers a low gluten diet, that's fine too. I don't see the point in avoiding gluten if someone feels no ill effects from it.
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hozzle
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Re: Diabetes

Post by hozzle »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Apr 22nd, 2022, 8:19 am To claify, I meant that just having gluten sensitivity was not a medical condition.
Celiac disease is a medical condition and this can result in serious health effects.

hozzle's suggestion that someone like myself, who has no symptoms after months with gluten in my diet, no difference without gluten in my diet, should be concerned about the "dangers" of gluten is ridiculous. As has been mentioned, people who are affected, have digestive, weight gain problems, brain fog, possibly inflammation, and find that a gluten free diet soon makes them feel much better. I do not question that. I do question that a person like myself who feels fine on my current diet, did not feel any worse or any better with or without gluten, should be concerned with this (nor should my doctor). If someone just prefers a low gluten diet, that's fine too. I don't see the point in avoiding gluten if someone feels no ill effects from it.
Explain to me how the statement below is ridiculous, pls.
Healthy adults that show no signs of celiac syndrome do have internal markers indicating the affect of gluten in the system, but if you continue with the advise of "most doctors aren't too concerned" go right ahead but I wouldn't advise it.
I believe it is a suggestion to others on this board not to certain diet methods and follow the old adage of getting a second opinion.
I'm made of rubber, you're made of glue. The garbage you say bounces off me and… oh, crap... then the powers that be censor me.
Silverstarqueen
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Re: Diabetes

Post by Silverstarqueen »

People (who were not gluten intolerant) and who consumed up to 12 g of gluten based foods per day had less risk of T2 diabetes in a study:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articl ... e-diabetes

So I would have to disagree with the statement " any gluten will affect healthy adults" in some adverse way.
Silverstarqueen
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Re: Diabetes

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Grandan wrote: Apr 21st, 2022, 12:44 pm
hozzle wrote: Apr 21st, 2022, 10:50 am
Not exactly... there is scientific data that indicates any gluten will affect healthy adults, it can be exasperated by the consumption of excess lectin. Separately or combined, both can lead to leaky gut syndrome. Intestinal barrier dysfunction can lead to diabetes. Both have recently been discovered to affect the brain (dementia, Alzheimer's, etc.) thru the blood stream and/or the nervous system due to the leaky gut.
Healthy adults that show no signs of celiac syndrome do have internal markers indicating the affect of gluten in the system, but if you continue with the advise of "most doctors aren't too concerned" go right ahead but I wouldn't advise it.
Well said. Leaky gut is a catastrophe and can lead to autoimmune diseases. Doctors miss diagnosing all sorts of diseases. My wife went to see her doctor with a sore toe. Her doctor sent her to a podiatrist who wanted to sell her a set of $400 inserts, my wife said no. She did some research and discovered it was gout. She had her doctor order a test and her Uric acid was sky high. She had to drop sugar and wine, her system couldn’t handle it. Younger women can handle it but as you get older your metabolism changes (estrogen levels drop) and previously benign substances can affect you differently.
Where was the connectionto gluten in her case of gout?
https://goutpal.info/gluten-and-uric-acid/

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