Vax Mandate

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two
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Re: Vax Mandate

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OKkayak wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 12:43 pm
two wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 12:40 pm
you wrongly assume I have no clue.
Nope, I pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one. But please, do continue. How is trying to save lives the same as a genocidal ideology?
two wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 12:40 pmmy beliefs upsets you and your assumptions make you feel empowered is all.
Nope, not at all. Just feel sorry for you.

Anyway, I wish the best of luck to you.

Gotta head off to the airport in an hour, off to Vegas :130:
mandate supporters are often self affirming, bigots.
I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. -- Voltaire
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Re: Vax Mandate

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Silverstarqueen wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 12:42 pm
two wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 12:34 pm
So then don't get vaccinated, 15% of the population agrees with you (another probably 5% wishes get the vaccine but can't for medical reasons).
Nobody. NO BODY has to lose their job.
Now if they want to see how far they can go with refusing to vaccinate, they can certainly do that, and I;m sure some will. They have that choice! But unless you can explain why they can't get a vaccine, there is no reason why anyone needs to lose their job.
Not wanting the vaccine is reason enough, not wanting to move into a world where medical privacy is being compromised is a great reason. Losing jobs over that is a terrible whip to be using and one society should not accept.
I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. -- Voltaire
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Re: Vax Mandate

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do you think unvaccinated people losing jobs and then facing desparity could turn into riots?

mandates are a soft form of authoritarianism
are you willing to blame the unvaccinated and excuse for a harder step like martial law if that hypothetically happened?
I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. -- Voltaire
Silverstarqueen
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Re: Vax Mandate

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two wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 12:49 pm
Silverstarqueen wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 12:42 pm
So then don't get vaccinated, 15% of the population agrees with you (another probably 5% wishes get the vaccine but can't for medical reasons).
Nobody. NO BODY has to lose their job.
Now if they want to see how far they can go with refusing to vaccinate, they can certainly do that, and I;m sure some will. They have that choice! But unless you can explain why they can't get a vaccine, there is no reason why anyone needs to lose their job.
Not wanting the vaccine is reason enough, not wanting to move into a world where medical privacy is being compromised is a great reason. Losing jobs over that is a terrible whip to be using and one society should not accept.
No body has to lose their job.
How many people do you know who cannot vaccinate and got fired over it?
Not wanting a vaccine is a choice, a personal decision, which anyone is free to choose.
So they just decided that their not liking a vaccine is more important than their job. What a great country we live in.
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Re: Vax Mandate

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Silverstarqueen wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 1:13 pm
two wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 12:49 pm

Not wanting the vaccine is reason enough, not wanting to move into a world where medical privacy is being compromised is a great reason. Losing jobs over that is a terrible whip to be using and one society should not accept.
No body has to lose their job.
How many people do you know who cannot vaccinate and got fired over it?
Not wanting a vaccine is a choice, a personal decision, which anyone is free to choose.
So they just decided that their not liking a vaccine is more important than their job. What a great country we live in.
Anyone being fired for not taking that jab is one to many and not acceptable. Jab or job mandates are disgusting...

do you think mass psychosis has ever happened in history?
do you think people inside that bubble know it ?
do you think it will ever happen again?
I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. -- Voltaire
Silverstarqueen
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Re: Vax Mandate

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two wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 12:54 pm do you think unvaccinated people losing jobs and then facing desparity could turn into riots?

mandates are a soft form of authoritarianism
are you willing to blame the unvaccinated and excuse for a harder step like martial law if that hypothetically happened?
Oh absolutely, I am pretty sure there are people who are so nutty that they would rather give up their job than get vaccinated.
And then just to double down on their victimhood they will get themselves arrested by rioting. Would most people blame them for rioting? Of course, but they don't care about other people do they? or they would have got the vaccine in the first place.
So yeah, their nutty buddies will still be high-fivin' them when they get arrested for rioting. That's why we have laws against violent protest.
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Re: Vax Mandate

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Silverstarqueen wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 1:28 pm
two wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 12:54 pm do you think unvaccinated people losing jobs and then facing desparity could turn into riots?

mandates are a soft form of authoritarianism
are you willing to blame the unvaccinated and excuse for a harder step like martial law if that hypothetically happened?
Oh absolutely, I am pretty sure there are people who are so nutty that they would rather give up their job than get vaccinated.
And then just to double down on their victimhood they will get themselves arrested by rioting. Would most people blame them for rioting? Of course, but they don't care about other people do they? or they would have got the vaccine in the first place.
So yeah, their nutty buddies will still be high-fivin' them when they get arrested for rioting. That's why we have laws against violent protest.
do you think mass psychosis has ever happened in history?
do you think people inside that bubble know it ?
do you think it will ever happen again?
I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. -- Voltaire
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Re: Vax Mandate

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Silverstarqueen wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 1:28 pm Oh absolutely, I am pretty sure there are people who are so nutty that they would rather give up their job than get vaccinated.
And then just to double down on their victimhood they will get themselves arrested by rioting. Would most people blame them for rioting? Of course, but they don't care about other people do they? or they would have got the vaccine in the first place.
So yeah, their nutty buddies will still be high-fivin' them when they get arrested for rioting. That's why we have laws against violent protest.
Going back to a earlier debate you and I had about natural immunity and passports, you said how can they prove it because the vaccines can be proven.. I responded if they got tested for it and survived, in which you gave no response.

dr-steven-pelech-speaks-about-research-and-testing for natural immunity.

I personally talked to Steven Pelech he has been studying the immune system for decades and recently all his work as been on covid testing and immune response expert. He is a respectable member of the UBC senate and a tenured professor of 33 years.

Tests can be done for natural immunity which are superior to vaccine immunity in the long term.

do you think natural immunity should give passport status ?

His take on immunization effected UBC's response to mandates and potentally got them to stop a hard mandate for a soft one which will not fire people but require them to test weekly.

he thinks even that soft mandate is to much, he thinks coercing people under age 65 is wrong, and that the current vaccines (somewhat) approved could be as dangerous to healthy people as covid and under 24 are potentially more serious then covid. This data is why moderna and pfizer have been banned for younger people in some countries and why those manufacturers have to now list conditions like mycardist, they are scientists, the science is not known its complex and people acting like they have facts are fanatical propaganda induced mania.

accepting mandates are society going insane. captain kirk okkayak dude linked me to a computer science student news article trying to discredit Dr Pelech.. which is really grasping at nothing. The will and excuse mandates in our society is society going mad IMO.

the fact that our government has increased riot weapon funds for the police substantially long before mandates is kinda gross.
Last edited by two on Oct 25th, 2021, 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. -- Voltaire
Silverstarqueen
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Re: Vax Mandate

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By "nutty", I don't mean psychosis. I'm not a psychiatrist, but these people are more like "Oppositional defiant" which is just a really bad personality disorder. So even people who are a big PIA as long as they don't break laws are just a PIA. But when they break the law, well they can deal with the court system. I know it's sad that they aren't allowed to just riot when they can't get their way, but that's the kind of society we live in now.
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Re: Vax Mandate

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Silverstarqueen wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 1:46 pm By "nutty", I don't mean psychosis. I'm not a psychiatrist, but these people are more like "Oppositional defiant" which is just a really bad personality disorder. So even people who are a big PIA as long as they don't break laws are just a PIA. But when they break the law, well they can deal with the court system. I know it's sad that they aren't allowed to just riot when they can't get their way, but that's the kind of society we live in now.
I am not excusing riots... the latter point I will make is those riots can be predicted in psychological modelling which I would say is more unhealthy to our society then covid it self. we have slowly been given fear each month over and over that eventually will help most people accept mandates and more control.. when the mandates themselves should simply be cast down against our human charter of rights and freedoms, this is no longer an emergency of covid but of our collective culture.
I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. -- Voltaire
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Re: Vax Mandate

Post by Silverstarqueen »

two wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 1:41 pm
Going back to a earlier debate you and I had about natural immunity and passports, you said how can they prove it because the vaccines can be proven.. I responded if they got tested for it and survived, in which you gave no response.
dr-steven-pelech-speaks-about-research-and-testing for natural immunity.
I personally talked to Steven Pelech he has been studying the immune system for decades and recently all his work as been on covid testing and immune response expert. He is a respectable member of the UBC senate and a tenured professor of 33 years.
Tests can be done for natural immunity which are superior to vaccine immunity in the long term.
do you think natural immunity should give passport status ?
His take on immunization effected UBC's response to mandates and potentally got them to stop a hard mandate for a soft one which will not fire people but require them to test weekly.
he thinks even that soft mandate is to much, he thinks coercing people under age 65 is wrong, and that the current vaccines (somewhat) approved could be as dangerous to healthy people as covid and under 24 are potentially more serious then covid. This data is why moderna and pfizer have been banned for younger people in some countries and why those manufacturers have to now list conditions like mycardist, they are scientists, the admin the science is not know and people acting like they have facts are fanatical propaganda induced mania.

accepting mandates are society going insane. captain kirk okkayak dude linked me to a computer science student news article trying to discredit Dr Pelech.. which is really grasping at nothing. The will and excuse mandates in our society is society going mad IMO.

the fact that our government has increased riot weapon funds for the police substantially long before mandates is kinda gross.
I don't know Mr. Pelesh, but if he thinks it's better to have immunity acquired by direct exposure to a virus with a case fatality rate of 2%, rather than a vaccine which prevents 80-90% of those deaths, and most hospitalizations, I'd love to hear his reasoning on that.
140,000 U.s. children lost a parent to covid, is that just the price we have to pay for immunity accquired by direct exposure?
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Re: Vax Mandate

Post by DoubleB12 »

It's almost over folks. Unvaxd you can stay unvaxd if you wish. Hopefully the rest of Canada (at the very least BC) follows what Mr. Ford has the guts to say and lift all restrictions by March 2022. It should be happening already here in BC with an 85% double dose rate. But you know, NDP rule, big ideas and plans but always take the cautious approach so they can make an excuse should they falter!! WE WILL BE OKAY, LETS OPEN 'ER UP, RESTRICTION FREE :smt045 :up:

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-reve ... -1.5633938
https://news784.com/2021/09/26/covid-wi ... perts-say/
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/09/e ... ring-2022/
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Re: Vax Mandate

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Silverstarqueen wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 2:01 pm
I don't know Mr. Pelesh, but if he thinks it's better to have immunity acquired by direct exposure to a virus with a case fatality rate of 2%, rather than a vaccine which prevents 80-90% of those deaths, and most hospitalizations, I'd love to hear his reasoning on that.
Dr Pelech

https://youtu.be/5hD_0HLWFPc?list=PLfyL ... FR3KO8Hg8Y
I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. -- Voltaire
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Re: Vax Mandate

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A two and half hour video chat is not an answer to my question. surely he has published studies comparing deaths due to exposure without the vaccine compared to deaths after vaccination, and can explain why it's better to go with the much higher death rate of direct exposure to the virus without vaccination. The objective should not be to acquire immunity while killing a fair percentage of cases. Sweden decided this was a misguided plan, and switched to vaccinating a good percentage (so far) of their population in order to reduce the collateral damage which left them with a much higher death rate than countries which had vaccinated widely.
Another little hole in Mr. Pelesh's logic, is he claims that Israel has high case rate (in spite of widespread vaccination), but then states that they have far less immunity from direct exposure. Why would he assume that they are not getting also an immune boost from that exposure after vaccination then, but without paying the high price of death as in unvaccinated countries?
Last edited by Silverstarqueen on Oct 25th, 2021, 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vax Mandate

Post by Sparki55 »

OKkayak wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 12:30 pm If this was just about the vaccines, I'd be more likely to agree with you to a point, but it isn't. Every step of the way, we have to listen to the verbal vomit. Masks, social distancing, this and that - it doesn't matter, its always the same garbage being used as an argument.

Seriously, enough is enough.
I'm only talking about vaccines.... But whatever lol.

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