Bkr. Is heart disease increasing around the World?

The forum's Skid Road. DO NOT ENTER unless you're ready for a squabble.
Silverstarqueen
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 22580
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2012, 8:02 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Lady tehMa wrote: Mar 11th, 2022, 8:35 am
Queen K wrote: Feb 24th, 2022, 4:44 pm Scotland has an increase in male deaths through heart attacks. No matter how you read this article, more are dying of heart attacks despite a decrease in mortality rates.

https://www.scotsman.com/health/covid-s ... hs-3541500

Where else could an increase in heart problems be true? The Philippines. A 17% increase. Did the Philipinnos adopt a western diet of red meat and saturated fats? :135:
I saw an article that talked about the increase in heart issues for otherwise healthy athletes
The Israeli Real-Time News Tuesday reported a 5-fold increase in sudden cardiac and unexplained deaths among FIFA players in 2021.

Since December, 183 professional athletes and coaches have suddenly collapsed, with 108 dead.

A Real-Time News investigation revealed that most of the athletes were males, with only 15 females, and the vast majority being 17-40 years of age. Only 21 are older (5 aged 42-45, six aged 46-49, 7 aged 51-54, and 3 others aged 60-64). 23 were teenagers, aged 12-17, of whom 16 died.

The investigation revealed in over 80 of the cases, such as football stars Sergio Aguero and Christian Eriksen, the athletes collapsed while playing, racing, or training, or immediately after. Scientific literature calls the phenomenon of athletes collapsing for reasons unrelated to injury rare.
https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/ ... s-in-2021/

You wouldn't think that athletes would have issues, no obesity etc, right?

I downloaded the pdf with all the names, but it was in Hebrew. Not speaking or reading Hebrew myself, I took the cheap way out and ran it through Google Translate.
1. January 7, 2021. Alex Apollinario, 24 years old. Brazilian football player from FC Alverca. Collapsed during a game Liga, in the 27th minute, after suffering a cardiac arrest. The medical team that was called managed to revive him after several attempts and he was transferred to a hospital, where he was euthanized and put to life, but died four days later.
............SNIP.......
106. November 7, 2021 Azaya Banks, 16 years old. A football player at Norcross High School in Georgia reportedly died of a "medical condition." unrelated to football while he was at home."
107. November 10th, 2021 Armano Ferrari, 51, soccer coach in Brasía, Italy. Died suddenly.
108. November 12, 2021. Jiub Adnan, 30 years old. A footballer from Macedonia. Died three days after the second dose of the corona vaccine during a football game with his friends. While He collapsed on a bench and resuscitation efforts were unsuccessful.
#23 Mark Eaton
"Mark Eaton, a former two-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year for the Utah Jazz, died Friday night after apparently crashing his bike, the team announced Saturday. He was 64. Eaton was found lying unconscious next to his bicycle on a road in Summit County, Utah, local police said, according to multiple reports.
Mark Eaton, ex-NBA player, dead at 64 after bike accident"

Look we've seen these lists before, hundred of athletes dying of whatever. When I checked a few, they had nothing at all to do with covid vaccine, some had just had an injury on the field.
So who knows eh?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18853091/Athlete's heart? or Cardiomyopathy?

Sudden death in Athletes:
https://www.medicosport.eu/en/sudden-de ... h2019.html

#45 High school foot ball player: Practices had just recommensed, temperatures were 97 F, no cause of death reported by coroner ."45. July 27, 2021 Joshua Ivory, 15, football player at Southwest High School in Georgia. Collapsed and died after training Soccer in central Georgia. Died in the emergency room at the hospital. The official cause of death has not yet been disclosed."
https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory ... e-79098842

One of the guys on your list went on some long distance run one day, and was discovered two days later, dead. So cause of death could hardly be determined, he may have fallen or become dizzy, and just died of exposure or dehydration, or who knows what.
Last edited by Silverstarqueen on Mar 11th, 2022, 4:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
Fancy
Insanely Prolific
Posts: 63560
Joined: Apr 15th, 2006, 6:23 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Fancy »

We have been talking about this for a long time - page 48 on this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=95&t=90687&start=705
Truths can be backed up by facts - do you have any?
Fancy this, Fancy that and by the way, T*t for Tat
Silverstarqueen
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 22580
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2012, 8:02 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Silverstarqueen »

liisgo wrote: Mar 11th, 2022, 9:09 am
Silverstarqueen wrote: Mar 11th, 2022, 8:42 am
No need to focus on some small minority of haters, because 95% of Canadians want the same thing, Pandemic to be over, life to go back to normal
5% of the people do not want the pandemic to be over???
Some are "hesitant". You will never get 100% all thinking the same way. There are some who think Putin is doing a fine job and is a good guy, so I'm sure there are some who don't want the pandemic to end (actual percentage is just an estimate). God forbid that they should ever agree with the vast majority of Canadians (you know those sheeple) , our Canadian or provincial governments,or our PHO's on anything.
Grandan
Grand Pooh-bah
Posts: 2739
Joined: Aug 14th, 2007, 4:05 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Grandan »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Mar 11th, 2022, 1:43 pm
liisgo wrote: Mar 11th, 2022, 9:09 am

5% of the people do not want the pandemic to be over???
Some are "hesitant". You will never get 100% all thinking the same way. There are some who think Putin is doing a fine job and is a good guy, so I'm sure there are some who don't want the pandemic to end (actual percentage is just an estimate). God forbid that they should ever agree with the vast majority of Canadians (you know those sheeple) , our Canadian or provincial governments,or our PHO's on anything.
So what exactly does this have to do with heart disease? Do you even know what posts you are responding to?
Heart disease is caused by poor lifestyle choices not a virus or vaccine. Fundamentally the root cause is too much sugar and or alcohol. There are plenty of other places to comment on a pandemic. This is not it.
Waste not
Silverstarqueen
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 22580
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2012, 8:02 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Grandan wrote: Mar 11th, 2022, 11:45 pm
Silverstarqueen wrote: Mar 11th, 2022, 1:43 pm
Some are "hesitant". You will never get 100% all thinking the same way. There are some who think Putin is doing a fine job and is a good guy, so I'm sure there are some who don't want the pandemic to end (actual percentage is just an estimate). God forbid that they should ever agree with the vast majority of Canadians (you know those sheeple) , our Canadian or provincial governments,or our PHO's on anything.
So what exactly does this have to do with heart disease? Do you even know what posts you are responding to?
Heart disease is caused by poor lifestyle choices not a virus or vaccine. Fundamentally the root cause is too much sugar and or alcohol. There are plenty of other places to comment on a pandemic. This is not it.
I was, talking about a principal: that we would never get 100% of Canadians to agree on anything, even those things that many think are self evident.
This does apply also to your theory that heart disease is almost exclusively caused by too much sugar and alcohol. Even if this is self-evident to you (and actually I agree to a certain extent with your theory), and to many others, there will never be 100% acceptance of this idea. Right now, among doctors you might get 50/50 (complete guess) that would agree that heart disease is largely due to sugar and alcohol. Maybe 25 years from now you will get 80-90% of people or doctors to agree to this theory. It takes at least that long to change hearts and minds on a large scale toward "radical" (aka new) theories, regardless of the science.
Yet for some reason it seems relatively easy to get people to believe some things if there's just enough advertising about it. For what, over 50 years, the public was told that heart disease was all due to fat, that dietary fat caused body fat, caused fatty arteries, fatty livers, and therefore caused heart disease. Even today you can look up many many studies which claimed to prove that. It's probably only in the last ten years or so that ANY researchers seriously tried to demonstrate that heart disease might be connected to sugar or alcohol. So it's going to take quite a bit more research and public education to change that kind of thinking.
Incidentally smoking (as well as environmental particulates such as pollution and wild fires) is also a huge factor in heart disease (even aside from alcohol or sugar), and look how many years it took to get 90% of doctors and most of the public on board with that idea. I bet even today you will not get 100% to admit smokiing is a large factor in heart disease.
Grandan
Grand Pooh-bah
Posts: 2739
Joined: Aug 14th, 2007, 4:05 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Grandan »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Mar 12th, 2022, 7:34 am
Grandan wrote: Mar 11th, 2022, 11:45 pm

So what exactly does this have to do with heart disease? Do you even know what posts you are responding to?
Heart disease is caused by poor lifestyle choices not a virus or vaccine. Fundamentally the root cause is too much sugar and or alcohol. There are plenty of other places to comment on a pandemic. This is not it.
I was, talking about a principal: that we would never get 100% of Canadians to agree on anything, even those things that many think are self evident.
This does apply also to your theory that heart disease is almost exclusively caused by too much sugar and alcohol. Even if this is self-evident to you (and actually I agree to a certain extent with your theory), and to many others, there will never be 100% acceptance of this idea. Right now, among doctors you might get 50/50 (complete guess) that would agree that heart disease is largely due to sugar and alcohol. Maybe 25 years from now you will get 80-90% of people or doctors to agree to this theory. It takes at least that long to change hearts and minds on a large scale toward "radical" (aka new) theories, regardless of the science.
Yet for some reason it seems relatively easy to get people to believe some things if there's just enough advertising about it. For what, over 50 years, the public was told that heart disease was all due to fat, that dietary fat caused body fat, caused fatty arteries, fatty livers, and therefore caused heart disease. Even today you can look up many many studies which claimed to prove that. It's probably only in the last ten years or so that ANY researchers seriously tried to demonstrate that heart disease might be connected to sugar or alcohol. So it's going to take quite a bit more research and public education to change that kind of thinking.
Incidentally smoking (as well as environmental particulates such as pollution and wild fires) is also a huge factor in heart disease (even aside from alcohol or sugar), and look how many years it took to get 90% of doctors and most of the public on board with that idea. I bet even today you will not get 100% to admit smokiing is a large factor in heart disease.
I agree that you will never get 100% of any population to agree on anything including sex. I also agree that for over 50 years both Canadians and Americans have been sold on the idea that fat is bad and a high carbohydrate diet is good. In principal it sounded good, fat would clog your arteries but there was no scientific basis for this view.
My view of the toxicity of sugar and highly processed food is not based on any theory of mine but on proven scientific evidence reproduced over many decades by reputable scientists, doctors and researchers. One of the most outstanding is the California Endocrinologist Dr Robert Lustig Jr author of the book Fat Chance. He spent a lifetime treating morbidly obese children and his discoveries are contained in his books. He has published peer reviewed scientific papers published in The National Institute of Health website.
Another outstanding author is Jason Fung a Toronto Nephrologist who sees the end results of peoples kidneys destroyed by decades of poor dietary choices. He authored 3 significant books, The Obesity Code, the Diebetes Code and the Cancer Code which are all very informative books all of which I have read. One of the earliest authors to outline the dangers of Sugar is David Ludwig author of Pure White and Deadly published in 1972. He was soundly isolated for his views by the sugar industry who say his writings as a threat to their business model of the more sugar the better. For decades Dentists have been sounding the alarm over the problems created by sugar in the rise in dental Caries in youth populations. Opthamologists are seeing a rise in macular degeneration in people as the high sugar diet wrecks havoc in the eye. Sorry for the upside down image, Castanet wants to put both the right side up and upside down image the same way so I am hooped, tried several times???
I attach just a few books from my library and would encourage any doubters to read any one of them.
B5E473BC-D08F-4F66-A7D7-E58BADCEF124.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Waste not
Silverstarqueen
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 22580
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2012, 8:02 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Silverstarqueen »

A quick look at the history of research on sugar's effect on heart disease shows that the idea didn't catch on until year 2000 or so. Lustig may have been researching it earlier, but papers and book (fat chance 2012) didn't come out all that long ago.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5174149/
" Dr. Robert Lustig, a paediatrician from University of California San Francisco, in 2009 made a passionate case against fructose in the popular YouTube video, ‘Sugar: The bitter truth’ [15] (2009) that currently (November 2016) has more than six-and-a-half million views."
Grandan
Grand Pooh-bah
Posts: 2739
Joined: Aug 14th, 2007, 4:05 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Grandan »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Mar 12th, 2022, 1:47 pm A quick look at the history of research on sugar's effect on heart disease shows that the idea didn't catch on until year 2000 or so. Lustig may have been researching it earlier, but papers and book (fat chance 2012) didn't come out all that long ago.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5174149/
" Dr. Robert Lustig, a paediatrician from University of California San Francisco, in 2009 made a passionate case against fructose in the popular YouTube video, ‘Sugar: The bitter truth’ [15] (2009) that currently (November 2016) has more than six-and-a-half million views."
John Yudkin wrote his book Pure White and Deadly in 1972. He was decades ahead of his time. He was denounced by Big Food organizations which is where researchers got their funding. Rather than risking having their funding cut off, researchers fell into line.
Robert Lustig Jr wrote the introduction to the 2012 edition of Pure White and Deadly
There has been other research on sugar that goes back 100 years that has been ignored particularly as it relates to diabetes.
Once Insulin was introduced it eclipsed reduced sugar as a treatment for diabetes.
Waste not
Grandan
Grand Pooh-bah
Posts: 2739
Joined: Aug 14th, 2007, 4:05 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Grandan »

How misinformation such as this can make it into mainstream media leaves me shaking my head.
https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#362658
This article advocates snacking which drives up insulin which is the fat storage hormone leading to obesity.
Waste not
Silverstarqueen
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 22580
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2012, 8:02 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Grandan wrote: Mar 12th, 2022, 5:14 pm How misinformation such as this can make it into mainstream media leaves me shaking my head.
https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#362658
This article advocates snacking which drives up insulin which is the fat storage hormone leading to obesity.
At least they suggested replacing the cookies, chips and cereals with fruits and vegetables. But if that means eating a bunch of bananas and potatoes (the only vegetable many people eat in a day), then it's not going to improve healthy or combat obesity.
Obviously we don't need three meals a day and a bunch of snacks "to keep blood sugar levels good" (unless possibly someone is working at a very physical job all day). I think most people are deficient in good sources of protein and healthy fats, and if they ate that, they wouldn't be craving large amounts of cookies and cereal. What we got away with when we were 15 isn't necessarily what will work in adulthood or past middle age. Guys who played football or hockey in college and then later kept eating like that, but no longer were training for football are going to run into health problems. (Same problem for female athletes). Years ago when farming was one of the main industries, people worked long, hard , physically demanding days, out in the elements. and could eat a pile of food. Most of us are lucky if we are going for an hour jog a few times a week, and live and work in temperature controlled settings, where the exercise involved is going to the coffee room for some donuts. No wonder we have health problems by our 40's or 50's.
Grandan
Grand Pooh-bah
Posts: 2739
Joined: Aug 14th, 2007, 4:05 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Grandan »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Mar 13th, 2022, 6:29 am
Grandan wrote: Mar 12th, 2022, 5:14 pm How misinformation such as this can make it into mainstream media leaves me shaking my head.
https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#362658
This article advocates snacking which drives up insulin which is the fat storage hormone leading to obesity.
At least they suggested replacing the cookies, chips and cereals with fruits and vegetables. But if that means eating a bunch of bananas and potatoes (the only vegetable many people eat in a day), then it's not going to improve healthy or combat obesity.
Obviously we don't need three meals a day and a bunch of snacks "to keep blood sugar levels good" (unless possibly someone is working at a very physical job all day). I think most people are deficient in good sources of protein and healthy fats, and if they ate that, they wouldn't be craving large amounts of cookies and cereal. What we got away with when we were 15 isn't necessarily what will work in adulthood or past middle age. Guys who played football or hockey in college and then later kept eating like that, but no longer were training for football are going to run into health problems. (Same problem for female athletes). Years ago when farming was one of the main industries, people worked long, hard , physically demanding days, out in the elements. and could eat a pile of food. Most of us are lucky if we are going for an hour jog a few times a week, and live and work in temperature controlled settings, where the exercise involved is going to the coffee room for some donuts. No wonder we have health problems by our 40's or 50's.
One of the groups I follow Low Carb Down Under, an Australian group that advocates a low carbohydrate diet. There are lots of videos put out by this group with proven results. I am now following a 2 meal a day program with low carbohydrates, lots of vegetables, high fat and moderate protein. I don’t have the overwhelming need to snack between meals, don’t feel hungry all the time and feel full and satisfied with a moderate sized meal. I fast overnight for 16 or more hours and have a late breakfast and early supper. Those two meals are 6 to 8 hours apart.
When I was eating a high carb diet I was always hungry and had medical issues. Over the course of several months I dropped weight and dropped the medication. I have gone from obese to near what is considered a normal BMI. I exercise moderately and stay active throughout the day doing projects but nothing overly strenuous. It is a proven fact that you cannot exercise your way to weight loss.
Triathlons are now being won by those on a low carbohydrate diet. Fat burning is about 2x more efficient as carb burning.
The science is out there you just have to dig for it.
Waste not
Silverstarqueen
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 22580
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2012, 8:02 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Sumo wrestlers train for 5 hours a day, and skip breakfast, proof that, as you say, you can't exercise away excess weight, and just fasting does not equate to healthy weight. Some people in the west eat, practically like a sumo wrestler, without the 5 hours a day training, plus may or may not eat a hearty breakfast, and wonder why they gain weight.
https://betterme.world/articles/sumo-wr ... stlers_Eat

Average lifespan for a sumo wrestler is 20 years or so less than an average japanese male.
Unless they catch covid and it goes side ways, lop off another 30 years from that life expectancy.
https://au.sports.yahoo.com/shobushi-su ... 25865.html

Turns out you also cannot exercise your way out of covid death.
zoo
Übergod
Posts: 1301
Joined: Jan 12th, 2006, 3:53 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by zoo »

Nice try, Obesity has been increasing every year to the point of 64% of Canadians in 2017 and higher today.
The top Medical and science organizations of the world clearly state most all cases are addressable and can be corrected through fitness and diet.
"To prevent obesity and maintain a healthy body weight, eat a well-balanced diet and exercise regularly."
It's pretty simple.
Why do we not stop trying so hard to justify this condition, we are using excuses.
Silverstarqueen
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 22580
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2012, 8:02 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Silverstarqueen »

zoo wrote: Mar 13th, 2022, 8:49 am Nice try, Obesity has been increasing every year to the point of 64% of Canadians in 2017 and higher today.
The top Medical and science organizations of the world clearly state most all cases are addressable and can be corrected through fitness and diet.
"To prevent obesity and maintain a healthy body weight, eat a well-balanced diet and exercise regularly."
It's pretty simple.
Why do we not stop trying so hard to justify this condition, we are using excuses.
If it was simple there wouldn't be so many obese people (I'm pretty sure it isn't 64% and higher).
There's a little more to it than just fitness and diet, since you actually cannot exercise your way out, and if obese, exercise itself is not going to be running 6 miles a day. Personally, when I was running six miles a day, it did not change my weight at all. Someone else on my staff was also very physically active and she was quite overweight from my point of view. As far as I could tell, she ate "a well balanced diet". So there's got to be more to it than that. People with arthritis can probably only exercise at most a few hundred calories a day off their intake.

I don't hear excuses, as much as some deeper thought being put into: why so many people find it hard to lose weight.
I think we really need to look at advertising, maybe at what kinds of foods are being offered in our stores that are a cheaper alternative to foods we know people may not be able to afford. Definitely we need to look at the advice that's been given by our nutritionists and dieticians. Example: I see vegan diets being promoted (and quite popular), supposedly healthy, and yet I gained 30 pounds on a vegan diet, and it took me months to get that off again , with of course, a different diet.
So it's not that simple.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ca ... &FORM=VIRE
Grandan
Grand Pooh-bah
Posts: 2739
Joined: Aug 14th, 2007, 4:05 pm

Re: Is heart disease increasing around the World?

Post by Grandan »

zoo wrote: Mar 13th, 2022, 8:49 am Nice try, Obesity has been increasing every year to the point of 64% of Canadians in 2017 and higher today.
The top Medical and science organizations of the world clearly state most all cases are addressable and can be corrected through fitness and diet.
"To prevent obesity and maintain a healthy body weight, eat a well-balanced diet and exercise regularly."
It's pretty simple.
Why do we not stop trying so hard to justify this condition, we are using excuses.
Herein lies the problem. What exactly is a well balanced diet? There are as many variations as there are people. And what exactly is exercise? What causes obesity? Some say fat, I say sugar and highly processed food.
The food pyramid does not adequately address the issue of what we should be eating and food manufacturers muddy the waters with their so called healthy snacks. If I could point a finger at the single worst thing you could ingest it would be soft drinks loaded with sugar and fruit juices that have equal amounts of sugar in them. Coffee drinks sometimes are loaded with sugar.
It is a scientific fact that fructose which represents 50% of the molecules in table sugar are shunted directly into the liver and are turned into fat. If you could do one thing in your life to avoid negative health consequences it would be to give up sugar altogether. Unfortunately sugar is addictive and most people cannot give up sugar if their life depended on it. Some cities have banned the huge sized drinks but it is a long road ahead of us. Given a choice between sugar and cocaine, rats will always go for the sugar because it is more addictive.
Waste not

Return to “Bickering Room”