Summerland Election

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old boy
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by old boy »

I don't share your optimistic view on our civic debt load, we have a water treatment plant that was poorly organized and we now send treated water out into our orchards and vineyards ... At a sopping cost to the residents of SUMMERLAND I might add. A police Station that really is a novelty item for this community. Blowing it off by saying no matter what community you have debt is not true, I've stated before Burnaby doesn't. Many cities have taken that approx.


As for our water system, the decision to combine the system was made in the early 70's,aproject that was to cost 5 or 6m,ended up close to $10m.Maybe a good decision at the time, but we are paying the price now, thru having to treat almost all our water thru the WTP.There is a water separation plan, small parts of which have been done, but not all of it will ever be separated, from what I have been told.
Most smaller communities have debt, hardly can compare Summerland to Burnaby!!
As for the RCMP station, Summerland had their chance for a very cost effective Tri Services building for approx.$3m back in 2002,but it got turned down, thus a stand alone $4.5m RCMP Station of today. Hardly a novelty, in my opinion!!!
old boy
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by old boy »

Bob Shewfelt,one of our better Mayors, a man with vision. In the mid 80's he and his Council, applied to the ALC for the same 200 acre exclusion, that everyone is now tearing there hair out over. The ALC excluded the property known to day as the La Vista development. He had vision back then, as the present Council has now in this regard. Not much public consultation back then either and I don't remember anyone getting too upset over the proposal back then!!
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Madhue
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by Madhue »

rkillick wrote:that is not really the correct usage of the phrase.
" if many believe so, it is so" if NG support for her position is in this vein it fits.

rkillick wrote: Either way, the unmoderated and unanswered trolling on this forum drives many people away. Castanet is not even close to a true representation of opinions, it is polarizing to the extreme and most people are more moderate.
i disagree with your assessment of this claim as well, I've seem lots of activity in here, for crying out loud in many cases Summerland politics have been wider debated than Pentictons in here. Moderators have cautioned hot heads redirected topics and allowed the flow of thinking and dialogue between very polarized positions. Even sent messages to clarify what was said and explained why they did or didn't intervien. Not sure what your implying but it smells of entitlement.



old boy wrote:
As for our water system, the decision to combine the system was made in the early 70's,aproject that was to cost 5 or 6m,ended up close to $10m.Maybe a good decision at the time, but we are paying the price now, thru having to treat almost all our water thru the WTP.There is a water separation plan, small parts of which have been done, but not all of it will ever be separated, from what I have been told.
Most smaller communities have debt, hardly can compare Summerland to Burnaby!!
As for the RCMP station, Summerland had their chance for a very cost effective Tri Services building for approx.$3m back in 2002,but it got turned down, thus a stand alone $4.5m RCMP Station of today. Hardly a novelty, in my opinion!!!
again Oldboy , you and see things very differently when it comes to debt load, and diversity of revenue streams, with almost 90% of our tax base coming from residental taxation. We need to explore increasing taxation to farms and vineyards and encouraging development of industry and commerce here in SUMMERLAND.
I do believe we are carrying too much debt that is not going to generate more income for our community, good debt is debt that eventually pays up back, generates wealth. We don't have that.
"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr
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Daspoot
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by Daspoot »

Madhue wrote: with almost 90% of our tax base coming from residental taxation. We need to explore increasing taxation to farms and vineyards and encouraging development of industry and commerce here in SUMMERLAND.
I do believe we are carrying too much debt that is not going to generate more income for our community, good debt is debt that eventually pays up back, generates wealth. We don't have that.


There-in lies your dichotomy.

90% of the tax income comes from residential, so you should pursue more industry?

Maybe if residential is such a good tax customer, it should be catered to, because as a defacto bedroom community that's Summerlands' lot in life. Industry and commerce tax levels and jobs are nice and all, but a small community nestled between two larger ones withing 15 minute commutes can only support certain business models successfully, catering to business models that are better suited to Penticton or Westbank is a folly. One of the only reasons to locate industry in Summerland is if the owners want it there for social or convenience reasons.

I do agree that the fascination with agriculture doesn't hold water when looked at with your head rather than your heart. From what I can tell, very little food actually consumed in the Okanagan is grown in the Okanagan too. As it stands agriculture does precious little to provide tax revenues or even jobs in your town, so why cater to it?

I ask that honestly. I grew up on an Okanagan Orchard and picked fruit well into my late teens to buy the stuff I wanted, It's a good honest lifestyle and romantic on many levels, but nobody is getting into it for the money, even vineyards are a gamble, the real money is in the wineries, and then 10% of them make 90% of the money.
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old boy
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by old boy »

[/quote] again Oldboy , you and see things very differently when it comes to debt load, and diversity of revenue streams, with almost 90% of our tax base coming from residental taxation. We need to explore increasing taxation to farms and vineyards and encouraging development of industry and commerce here in SUMMERLAND.
I do believe we are carrying too much debt that is not going to generate more income for our community, good debt is debt that eventually pays up back, generates wealth. We don't have that.[/quote]

I find myself just about agreeing with you on your comment above. On a personal level I don't like debt, and as a city it should be kept to a minimum, only being created for necessary, grant funded projects, with the odd exception.
As for increasing taxes to farmlands, that would be a hard sell in our community, in my opinion. I don't disagree, but I can just hear the screaming now, at just the mention of the idea!!
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Madhue
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by Madhue »

Daspoot wrote:
There-in lies your dichotomy.

90% of the tax income comes from residential, so you should pursue more industry?

Maybe if residential is such a good tax customer, it should be catered to, because as a defacto bedroom community that's Summerlands' lot in life. Industry and commerce tax levels and jobs are nice and all, but a small community nestled between two larger ones withing 15 minute commutes can only support certain business models successfully, catering to business models that are better suited to Penticton or Westbank is a folly. One of the only reasons to locate industry in Summerland is if the owners want it there for social or convenience reasons.

I do agree that the fascination with agriculture doesn't hold water when looked at with your head rather than your heart. From what I can tell, very little food actually consumed in the Okanagan is grown in the Okanagan too. As it stands agriculture does precious little to provide tax revenues or even jobs in your town, so why cater to it?

I ask that honestly. I grew up on an Okanagan Orchard and picked fruit well into my late teens to buy the stuff I wanted, It's a good honest lifestyle and romantic on many levels, but nobody is getting into it for the money, even vineyards are a gamble, the real money is in the wineries, and then 10% of them make 90% of the money.
look at it this way, we have only two choices financial right now to pay for infrastructure and to pay off infrastructure. Raise property taxation and increase the numbers we tax.

Current mind set is to increase residential development, more houses means current owners homes lose value or growth in value. Simple supply and demand. The paradox with this concept will be expecting growth in residental development, when the potential home owner may not see growth as they will elsewhere in the valley and pay higher taxes. It's an equation I belive may backfire on us.
"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr
RandyDandy
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by RandyDandy »

As has been explained to me, moderately priced housing does nothing to assuage the tax burden for the community at large; in fact, it does exactly the opposite by RAISING taxes on pre-existing and new homes. Only housing at the "high end" actually pays its way, and provides for the rest of us a measure of tax relief for housing extant.
Moderately priced housing (dare I say "affordable"?) can most effectively be build on non-challenging ground, eg., flat, perhaps former farmland which only exacerbates our current tax problem. Houses built on hillsides are more expensive to build, attracting a more affluent clientele who will pay higher taxes than most of us. People keep on about building a tax base...great but it's not going to happen from houses built at the corner of Quinpool and Garnet valley/Tingley roads. Lands on the east side of the highway are quite another matter but I rather doubt that many new residents from that area will be walking to town.
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Daspoot
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by Daspoot »

Madhue wrote: look at it this way, we have only two choices financial right now to pay for infrastructure and to pay off infrastructure. Raise property taxation and increase the numbers we tax.

Current mind set is to increase residential development, more houses means current owners homes lose value or growth in value. Simple supply and demand. The paradox with this concept will be expecting growth in residental development, when the potential home owner may not see growth as they will elsewhere in the valley and pay higher taxes. It's an equation I belive may backfire on us.


I agree with much of what you point out, but probably disagree that a few dozen, or even a few hundred more houses built in Summerland will reduce value of existing properties and homes.

I think it's a better bet than trying to lure businesses here with ads, signs and promotions online or otherwise.

I think raising taxes on agricultural land will push many of them into a situation where there is no longer a reasonable possibility of profit.

I think you better hope the new council out there has some balance to it so both sides are represented and a balanced plan comes out of it in the next 4 years.
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Logitack
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by Logitack »

i am guessing the pro growth group are disappointed tonight LOL

http://summerland.ca/docs/Election/Elec ... s_2014.pdf

what happened newgen? ROFL
0gopogo
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by 0gopogo »

Peter Waterman for mayor is worse than what we had before.
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Anonymous123
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by Anonymous123 »

0gopogo wrote:Peter Waterman for mayor is worse than what we had before.


How do you know that? Are you psychic? Give the guy a chance, a 4 year chance, he might surprise you.
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antelee
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by antelee »

You can say that again!
My dog could do a better job! What a gong show this is going to be!
I will be watching the council meetings for the laughs!
Believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.
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antelee
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by antelee »

Peter Waterman for mayor is worse than what we had before.[/quote]

How do you know that? Are you psychic? Give the guy a chance, a 4 year chance, he might surprise you.[/quote]

I really, really, really doubt that!
Believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.
Logitack
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by Logitack »

antelee wrote:
I really, really, really doubt that!

isnt democracy wonderful! ;)
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Madhue
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by Madhue »

Logitack wrote:isnt democracy wonderful! ;)

It's ab amazing animal for sure. I'm terribly excited about our mayor, it's pretty amazing that 4 were within under 200 votes of each other. There was no landslide victory. That speaks volumes for an incoming mayor. That in order to retain a seat in upcoming elections being more moderate helps.
Regardless as mayor his influence will be limited to his council. I see a real diverse batch and that's hopeful. Anytime Council is that eclectic we have a sense in a small town we are represented, I like that.
"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr

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