Summerland Election

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BiffaBacon
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by BiffaBacon »

Here is what the next 4 years in Summerland will be...

*First Council Meeting: "We must reverse the land swap...Summerland needs the apples to make sure we have enough apple pies at Christmas!"

*Second Council Meeting: "Yeah, good work people! We stopped the swap! Now that land can sit almost unused! We should be so proud of ourselves!" *hugs and back slaps all around*

*For the Next Four Years: *crickets chirping*
Logitack
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by Logitack »

whoa is me, the losers who wanted anyone other than who got elected are crying and whining...boo hoo... doom and gloom.

get over it, you or should I say "we" lost, "we didnt get "our" vote out...instead the MAJORITY of those who exercised their democratic right decided a complete council change was needed.

better luck next election.

now suck it up and move on ;)
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Anonymous123
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by Anonymous123 »

Assumed wrote:We were starting to see a turn around but now Summerland has just been shut down, again. Progressive Mayor and council in all communities up and down the valley except Slumberland. Really sad.


twobits wrote:Yup, pretty much. My modest investment in Summerland will be available this week. I have been patient but am at a point in life I am going to exit now with my capital at least intact before the Amish leaders make the already current cost of servicing a residential lot at $1.20 for every $1.00 collected in property taxes becomes 2 bucks.
The absolute irony here.....add up the property tax contributions of the new Amish councillors and see if they contribute an equitable per thousand dollar in property value tax contribution. Then ask them if they are genuine farmers or retiree's supplementing a pension cheque, hobby farmers, or have an alternate source (spousal paycheque).

Summerland has sunk costs in infrastructure, water works and sewer being the big ones. How can one say it costs 1.20 per serviced lot as a reason to not add new homes and payors to that sunk cost and bring the per capita cost down. Me thinks it is pretty easy when you contribute squat in taxes to begin with.

Congrats Summerland voters. You have just voted to protect the people that actually have the assets to pay taxes and reaffirmed the burden to the residential homeowner paying a mortgage from a paycheque from an employer.

Just for fun.....how bout some of you ask your newly elected councillor Richard Barkwell a few questions. He has stated he is an auditor for CCRA (revenue canada). He has also stated he operates a "small" agricultural business in Summerland. If anyone is going to know what the benefits of operating a small farm, minimum income requirements to qualify for agricultural status, and then collect a generous Public Service Pension in two or three years, and then after the gov't cheques start flowing, know that all he has to do is maintain his minimum farm income requirements to avoid paying Summerland property taxes like average Home Owner Joe has to to pay for sewage plant, domestic water, roads, parks and even roundabouts....... ya know....... that $1.20 per residential lot.....who is the smart guy here? I am pretty sure it's it's Dick. And you people voted for him.


How much for your "modest investment in Summerland" and where Is it? I'm looking for retirement property In the near future, and Summerland sounds like it'll be the perfect sleepy little town to do that in.
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0gopogo
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by 0gopogo »

BiffaBacon....haha! So true!!!!
my5cents
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by my5cents »

I hear all the concern, perhaps I'm completely mis-informed.

Is not the issue with the "land swap"......

We have good farm land near the basic center of town. There is other land that is on the side hill near the center of town but further away.

Much easier to build homes on nice flat land, and it's near the center of town.

Harder to build homes on the side hills.

There is still other land available for building homes that is available. (ie there isn't a current shortage of land needed for homes)

Points and Questions:

->Don't many people like to build there homes on side hills because of view ?

->If it's harder to build homes on the non-ALR land that counsel wanted to swap for (the side hill land), wouldn't it be VERY hard to farm on it ?

->I lived in Coquitlam, on a Sunday morning, a drive to the local lumber yard would take about 45 minutes each way. The lumber yard was also in Coquitlam. In Summerland, if you left your home anywhere in Summerland and drove for 45 minutes you would have likely pasted through not one but two other towns. So really is it that necessary to build so close to town center ?

-> Do we think that if we build a bunch of homes on this ag land that all of a sudden this will jump start the commercial economy of Summerland ? Isn't Summerland really a bedroom community for larger centers ?

-> Wasn't it last terms counsel (that some are pining over their departure) that didn't really want the jail, then half assed said they would accept it but didn't lobby for it, and didn't get any type of commitment from the citizens, saying "well if we're picked we'll ask the citizens if they want it". Basically turning it down by neglect ? Was that the counsel that was so growth oriented ?

It really seems to be that counsel was VERY pro-land swap, to the extent that it was alarming. I received a document from the Municipality with a number of Q&A's. The entire document was directed at every point that promoted the swap or negated a negative. We had the mayor partially loosing it, scolding attendees at a counsel meeting that clapping wouldn't be tolerated at information meetings and the "police would be there".

*bleep* ?
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twobits
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by twobits »

my5cents wrote:I hear all the concern, perhaps I'm completely mis-informed.

Is not the issue with the "land swap"......

We have good farm land near the basic center of town. There is other land that is on the side hill near the center of town but further away.

Much easier to build homes on nice flat land, and it's near the center of town.

Harder to build homes on the side hills.

There is still other land available for building homes that is available. (ie there isn't a current shortage of land needed for homes)

Points and Questions:

->Don't many people like to build there homes on side hills because of view ?

->If it's harder to build homes on the non-ALR land that counsel wanted to swap for (the side hill land), wouldn't it be VERY hard to farm on it ?

->I lived in Coquitlam, on a Sunday morning, a drive to the local lumber yard would take about 45 minutes each way. The lumber yard was also in Coquitlam. In Summerland, if you left your home anywhere in Summerland and drove for 45 minutes you would have likely pasted through not one but two other towns. So really is it that necessary to build so close to town center ?

-> Do we think that if we build a bunch of homes on this ag land that all of a sudden this will jump start the commercial economy of Summerland ? Isn't Summerland really a bedroom community for larger centers ?

-> Wasn't it last terms counsel (that some are pining over their departure) that didn't really want the jail, then half assed said they would accept it but didn't lobby for it, and didn't get any type of commitment from the citizens, saying "well if we're picked we'll ask the citizens if they want it". Basically turning it down by neglect ? Was that the counsel that was so growth oriented ?

It really seems to be that counsel was VERY pro-land swap, to the extent that it was alarming. I received a document from the Municipality with a number of Q&A's. The entire document was directed at every point that promoted the swap or negated a negative. We had the mayor partially loosing it, scolding attendees at a counsel meeting that clapping wouldn't be tolerated at information meetings and the "police would be there".

*bleep* ?


It would seem you have not read the countless studies on smart growth principles that have been done throughout the developed world. Perhaps you could just start with our very own RDOS "Smart Growth Principles" document that is available free of charge at the RDOS office in Penticton. Then come back and critique your own post here when you are more informed.
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my5cents
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by my5cents »

twobits wrote:It would seem you have not read the countless studies on smart growth principles that have been done throughout the developed world. Perhaps you could just start with our very own RDOS "Smart Growth Principles" document that is available free of charge at the RDOS office in Penticton. Then come back and critique your own post here when you are more informed.

One of the principles of smart growth is :

Protect and enhance agricultural lands. A secure and productive land base, such as BC's Agricultural Land Reserve,

In discussing what "Governments Can" they suggest as one of their points :

Provide no support for ALR exclusion, subdivision, or non-farm use applications;

http://www.smartgrowth.bc.ca/AboutUs/Is ... fault.aspx

Seems to be the opposite of what Summerland Counsel was intending.
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twobits
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by twobits »

Anonymous123 wrote:How much for your "modest investment in Summerland" and where Is it? I'm looking for retirement property In the near future, and Summerland sounds like it'll be the perfect sleepy little town to do that in.


Well it is sure to be a sleepy little town if that is what might appeal to you. The extra taxes that homeowners will be facing in the very near future, as well as electrical and water, because these are the only revenue tools a council mindset that was just elected have, might dissuade you however. I suppose they could keep taxes down but that would mean crumbling infrastructure and unreliable services.
Look forward to notices such as "Water service will be restored as soon as possible", "Electrical service will be patched momentarily", "Boil water notice in effect for the area of......".

Peter Amish et al with a four year mandate have just set back Summerland a decade at least. Peter Amish doesn't care though cuz he pays taxes at 10 cents to the dollar because he has farm status.
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twobits
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by twobits »

my5cents wrote:One of the principles of smart growth is :

Protect and enhance agricultural lands. A secure and productive land base, such as BC's Agricultural Land Reserve,

In discussing what "Governments Can" they suggest as one of their points :

Provide no support for ALR exclusion, subdivision, or non-farm use applications;

http://www.smartgrowth.bc.ca/AboutUs/Is ... fault.aspx

Seems to be the opposite of what Summerland Counsel was intending.


Rather than cherry picking, why don't you read the whole document and realize that yes, agricultural land should be preserved, but the studies also conclude there are valid reasons for redesignating some of these lands where it makes sense.

If you choose to stand by your above narrow interpretation, Summerland Secondary, as well as most of downtown Summerland would not exist. It was all Orchards.

I suppose it comes down to what one envisions Summerland being. An agricultural bedroom community with over priced convenience store milk, three doctor's offices, a beer store, two....maybe one gas station, and a thrift store next to a pharmacy. Everything else you need, you drive to "town"....north or south. Including children to school.

And also be prepared to pay the tax bill pressured by inflation and deterioration of current infrastructure that no new added revenue stream is offsetting. No one has ever figured out a way to have their cake and eat it too for very long.

ETA- And BTW, your linked reference is generic. Like I said before, go get the free copy of our very own RDOS paid for "Smart Growth" study and come back after you bothered to get off your keyboard and "google is your friend" defense.
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twobits
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by twobits »

Logitack wrote:whoa is me, the losers who wanted anyone other than who got elected are crying and whining...boo hoo... doom and gloom.

get over it, you or should I say "we" lost, "we didnt get "our" vote out...instead the MAJORITY of those who exercised their democratic right decided a complete council change was needed.

better luck next election.

now suck it up and move on ;)


OK, fair enough, but we will remember your comment when the "Christie Liberals" get less than 50% of the actual votes cast. It will then be OK if we say..............................what you said highlighted in red above?
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Giants Head
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by Giants Head »

NextGen....Where are you? We have all been waiting to hear about your Research into the election results and your consultations with your Family and Friends. Maybe you could explain that Silent Majority thing to us one last time. Over two hundred posts on one subject leading up to the election and now silence. What's up?
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fluffy
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by fluffy »

Perhaps, like myself, he is willing to accept the wishes of the majority. I admit I am surprised and disappointed with the election results but in all fairness the new council has the job and should be given a fair chance to show their ability to run the town. It will be an interesting four years to be sure, this council, like any other, will find out the finer points of being in the public eye in a town as strongly divided as Summerland, and there will no doubt be ample advice offered whether they want it or not. :) I for one will be interested to watch Mr. Waterman's performance as leader. He is in an entirely different situation than he was as councilor where he was content to play the role of "squeaky wheel". As leader he sets the tone for the entire council and tactics he used as councilor would be entirely inappropriate in his new role. For Summerland's sake I hope he's up to the challenge.
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Anonymous123
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by Anonymous123 »

Giants Head wrote:NextGen....Where are you? We have all been waiting to hear about your Research into the election results and your consultations with your Family and Friends. Maybe you could explain that Silent Majority thing to us one last time. Over two hundred posts on one subject leading up to the election and now silence. What's up?


Probably fencing his and oldboy's property in the ALR now that the application will be withdrawn. He may just have to work it, or sell it to some "gentleman farmer".
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fluffy
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by fluffy »

Anonymous123 wrote:...or sell it to some "gentleman farmer".


Yeah, right. Stand back, here comes the stampede of prospective farmers.

I must be really missing something here. Can someone please explain to me why it's necessary to preserve land for agricultural use when there is no interest in using that particular land for agricultural purposes, and there is a much more logical use available? I speak specifically of the twenty or thirty odd acres at the intersection of Quinpoole and Garnet Avenue, land that has lain fallow for years and is immediately adjacent to existing residential neighbourhoods. Anyone?
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old boy
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Re: Summerland Election

Post by old boy »

fluffy wrote:Perhaps, like myself, he is willing to accept the wishes of the majority. I admit I am surprised and disappointed with the election results but in all fairness the new council has the job and should be given a fair chance to show their ability to run the town. It will be an interesting four years to be sure, this council, like any other, will find out the finer points of being in the public eye in a town as strongly divided as Summerland, and there will no doubt be ample advice offered whether they want it or not. :) I for one will be interested to watch Mr. Waterman's performance as leader. He is in an entirely different situation than he was as councilor where he was content to play the role of "squeaky wheel". As leader he sets the tone for the entire council and tactics he used as councilor would be entirely inappropriate in his new role. For Summerland's sake I hope he's up to the challenge.


I like others have been contemplating the results of the election, and I have to agree with fluffy's assessment of the situation. Disappointing for sure,but that's democracy. Almost an exact replay of the 1992 election, where we ended up with a new Mayor and a new Council, save one Councillor. Summerland is still suffering in many ways from the 3 terms of the Mayor and his Councils, of that era, but here we go again. Summerland just never learns, only the hard way!!

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