Healthy eating gets a makeover

[shoo]

Ancel Keyes...that one person did more to ruin the health of North Americans than any other. Grains,bad oils,corn and high fructose corn syrup,low fat products such as low fat pop tarts,trans fats,sugar.All supposed to be better for us than animal fat. uh huh.

[Glacier]

That's incorrect information that as never had any scientific backing. Saturated fat intake has been more than cut in half, yet these diseases continue to rise. By the way, how does an old food, one we've been eating for millions of years, cause new diseases?

Quite right.

My mom has been ordered by her doctor to eat two eggs with every breakfast. Now admittedly, everyone is different, so two eggs a day is not a good idea for everyone. BTW, this shows a shortfall of the the food guide in that it doesn't account for differences between people and ages. As we age, we need more fruits and veggies and less meat. Also, does anyone seriously count their intakes of the various food groups, and how does one account for the differences between people (some need more fat than others, different metabolism rates, etc.).

Meat is not the problem, it's the junk they put into the meat that's the issue. Another unhealthy activity that many of us (myself included) engage in is overeat, and while it is possible to overeat on carrots, it's much easier to eat too much fat, salt, and sugar.

[UnknownResident]

That's incorrect information that as never had any scientific backing. Saturated fat intake has been more than cut in half, yet these diseases continue to rise. By the way, how does an old food, one we've been eating for millions of years, cause new diseases?

Quite right.

My mom has been ordered by her doctor to eat two eggs with every breakfast. Now admittedly, everyone is different, so two eggs a day is not a good idea for everyone. BTW, this shows a shortfall of the the food guide in that it doesn't account for differences between people and ages. As we age, we need more fruits and veggies and less meat, besides differences between people. Also, does anyone seriously count their intakes of the various food groups?

Meat is not the the junk they put into the meat that's the problem. Another health problem that many of us (myself included) do is overeat, and while it is possible to overeat on carrots, it's much easier to eat too much fat, salt, and sugar.

Great post. Found something we agree on.

[Glacier]

Great post. Found something we agree on.

Not my greatest post, considering all the typos. But thank you, anyway.

It's funny about Castanet. If you're on here long enough, you'll eventually agree with everyone on something. Would you believe that I agree with many of your posts, but mostly I respond to the points of disagreement...

[Imagination]

...Take a look at the video I posted earlier in the thread. That doctor has been doing decades of research on the matter. In fact, here's his research.

Dr. Neal Barnard...Dr. of Psychiatry and one of PETA's members and president of one of it's smoke and mirrors arms. Yup, we should all listen to those credentials. His diabetic diet is actually worse for diabetes than the standard Diabetic diet (which is garbage and just makes it worse). In case you aren't aware, members of PETA solidly endorse fudging, lieing, fear mongering and whatever else it takes to make a point and he is one of them.

It's true, saturated fat and red meat has taken a huge hit that was never proven out by science. The original studies were seriously flawed (as were the ones that have been holding eggs hostage all these years and low and behold those who know the new data now know they are not harmful at all when it comes to cholesterol in humans). They know the source of the problem now and it's sugars causing the clogging so time to give it the boot it deserves.

As for food guides...at least this latest one from the US doesn't include sugars (10% is the usual they let through under pressure from the lobbyists). First time ever and now it's more aligned with the guides in the rest of the world. Once Canada follows and knocks the grains, ups the veggies (above ground excluding corn) and specifies only limited amounts of the less sweet fruits they may be closer to what is going on in healthy countries.

[daria]

Except for those people with type 2 diabetes who adopt a plant based and are able to completely level out their blood sugars and stop taking metformin.

[Imagination]

Sure that can happen but only if those plants are all none starch, low sugar which is the secret of taking care of type II. Meanwhile the vegan folks are having to eat handfuls of supplements to make up for all the essential fats, amino acids, and other things they can't get from that diet. Unfortunately, for most people, that would be a hard regime to stick with for any length of time.

Just so you know, eating full proteins and fats as well as platefuls of above ground veggies (exception being things like corn which is too high in sugars) has also proven to level off blood sugars and get people off metformin and insulin injections (as well as bringing cholesterol numbers to optimum and solving a lot of other health issues). In other words, it's not about meat or fats being the issue at all (no matter how much squealling PETA does), it's about sugars/starches. Clear just those two things out of the diet and type II diabetes, heart disease, and a few other things aren't an issue for people any more.

[UnknownResident]

Except for those people with type 2 diabetes who adopt a plant based and are able to completely level out their blood sugars and stop taking metformin.

The idea that meat causes diabetes is way too far-fetched. If you had said a high intake of processed "meat" can help cause diabetes that would be more believable.

When you adopt a plant-based diet you knock out a lot of things, not just meat. You get rid of the dairy, the breads, the processed junk. Which is great! But any health benefits you've gotten from it are because you cut out the sugars, grains, and processed foods, not meat.

You're arguing against our evolution Daria. We've been designed over millions of years to eat plants and meat. To have all these new diseases today and put the blame solely on something we've been eating for that long is absurd. It makes more sense to say the relatively NEW foods are giving us the NEW health problems, not the OLD foods (foods we've eaten for our entire evolution) are giving us NEW health problems.

[daria]

Sure that can happen but only if those plants are all none starch, low sugar which is the secret of taking care of type II. Meanwhile the vegan folks are having to eat handfuls of supplements to make up for all the essential fats, amino acids, and other things they can't get from that diet. Unfortunately, for most people, that would be a hard regime to stick with for any length of time.

Just so you know, eating full proteins and fats as well as platefuls of above ground veggies (exception being things like corn which is too high in sugars) has also proven to level off blood sugars and get people off metformin and insulin injections (as well as bringing cholesterol numbers to optimum and solving a lot of other health issues). In other words, it's not about meat or fats being the issue at all (no matter how much squealling PETA does), it's about sugars/starches. Clear just those two things out of the diet and type II diabetes, heart disease, and a few other things aren't an issue for people any more.

Full proteins, which include quinoa, hemp hearts, chia, and other plant sources (broccoli is actually 30% proteins) are easy to find in a plant-based diet. Beans are an excellent source of protein, but they also contain something that animal proteins don't: fiber! The fiber in plant-based foods keeps people from feeling hungry, and when the appetite is tamed (because blood sugars don't dip too low) people are less likely to indulge in high fat, sugary sweets. Since animal proteins don't contain a scrap of fiber, pieces are often more likely to remain lodged in the large intestine, creating problems (such as inflamed polyps) down the road. Essential fatty acids are also available in hemp hearts, flaxseeds, chia seeds, etc. These are not supplements, but rather whole foods that can be added to cereals, salads, and other dishes. Vitamin B12 may be the only supplement some vegans need to take, but most nut milks and meat alternatives contain enough B12 to make supplementation unnecessary for proper blood production.

The fats in animal protein prevent glucose from doing its job properly. When fat particles enter our cells and interfere with insulin's ability to open the cell membrane to glucose, the glucose ends up back in our bloodstream, rather than inside the cells providing fuel. When this glucose builds up in the bloodstream, it can then damage the delicate blood vessels in the eyes, kidneys, heart, and legs.

Furthermore, when it comes to protein consumption, the reason that plant proteins are more easily digestible than animal proteins has to do with the types and strengths of the acids in each. The acids in plant proteins (including oxalic, pyruvic, citric, and acetylsalicylic) do not tax the liver and kidneys in the same way that acids (such as sulfuric, uric, and phosphoric) in animal proteins do. The liver and kidneys have no trouble neutralizing plant acids, but animal acids often end up stored in your tissues, and since cancer cells love an anaerobic environment (created by too much acid) this increases the risks of cancer. The weaker plant acids do not interrupt the alkalizing and oxygenated environment (which cancer cells hate!) created by a diet rich in the enzymes from live foods (raw/steamed/slightly sautéed veggies).

This has nothing to do with animal rights (even if that can be an important motivation for some when choosing to eat a plant-based diet), and it has everything to do with providing people with the tools to prevent and reverse chronic diseases.

[daria]

Except for those people with type 2 diabetes who adopt a plant based and are able to completely level out their blood sugars and stop taking metformin.

The idea that meat causes diabetes is way too far-fetched. If you had said a high intake of processed "meat" can help cause diabetes that would be more believable.

When you adopt a plant-based diet you knock out a lot of things, not just meat. You get rid of the dairy, the breads, the processed junk. Which is great! But any health benefits you've gotten from it are because you cut out the sugars, grains, and processed foods, not meat.

You're arguing against our evolution Daria. We've been designed over millions of years to eat plants and meat. To have all these new diseases today and put the blame solely on something we've been eating for that long is absurd. It makes more sense to say the relatively NEW foods are giving us the NEW health problems, not the OLD foods (foods we've eaten for our entire evolution) are giving us NEW health problems.

What does bread have to do with being vegan? Most breads don't contain eggs or dairy (especially breads worth eating, such as rye and spelt!). Actually, it's industrialized farming that's creating such a sharp increase in chronic diseases.

You do realize that it is unlikely that our hunting and gathering ancestors ate meat on a daily basis? Also, are you not certain we're not evolving to be vegetarians? I challenge you to give a two year old an apple and a rabbit. If the child eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, then you've got yourself a carnivore. If the child does what is perfectly natural (eats the apple and plays with the bunny!), I think you've got yourself a herbivore!

Speaking of evolution:

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." ~ Albert Einstein

[UnknownResident]

You do realize that it is unlikely that our hunting and gathering ancestors ate meat on a daily basis? Also, are you not certain we're not evolving to be vegetarians? I challenge you to give a two year old an apple and a rabbit. If the child eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, then you've got yourself a carnivore. If the child does what is perfectly natural (eats the apple and plays with the bunny!), I think you've got yourself a herbivore!

Our ancestors had no choice but to eat meat, considering during the ice ages (the majority of our evolution) there was very little of anything else to eat. Cute antics are funny Daria, but the fact is we had no choice but to eat meat. The child will eat the rabbit when giving no other option.

I agree with you about industrialized agriculture, it's clear that is the problem. We've made it very easy to get what we want in large quantities and very cheap, at the cost of quality. But I've said from the get go I don't believe you can get health by eating a sick animal. That's why I only eat the best quality meat. There's meat-based diets that are very unhealthy, and there a plant-based diets that are very unhealthy. If you eat good quality meats and veggies you don't need to worry about supplementation, to me that's a sure fire sign that's how we're meant to eat. To you, maybe not so much, maybe you think flax seeds (33% conversion to omega-3s), and hemp hearts are found in abundance in nature.

There's a lot of issues with a plant-based diet. I recommend listening to "The Great Health Debate" most vegan health experts will admit you need to be very careful and supplement properly.

[daria]

Question: Where do you get your meats from? How do you know they're the "best quality?" Because unless you saw Bessie being raised from calf to cow, and know exactly what she was fed prior to slaughter, and know the exact circumstances of how she was slaughtered (meaning, did any of her fecal matter [containing E. coli] end up in the meat, when they sliced open her belly?), how do you know that the cut of meat you're eating is "safe" and the "best quality." I am actually quite curious.

Certainly, our ancestors ate meat, due to its high fat and thus high calorie content. Today, however, when it is unnecessary to eat animal products for survival, why shouldn't humanity evolve into non-meat eaters? We could actually feed a lot more people on this planet if 1/3 of our land wasn't being used for animal agriculture. The 2000 lbs of grains used annually to feed one livestock could be divided amongst 5 human beings (who can eat about about 400 lbs of grains annually).

[UnknownResident]

Question: Where do you get your meats from? How do you know they're the "best quality?" Because unless you saw Bessie being raised from calf to cow, and know exactly what she was fed prior to slaughter, and know the exact circumstances of how she was slaughtered (meaning, did any of her fecal matter [containing E. coli] end up in the meat, when they sliced open her belly?), how do you know that the cut of meat you're eating is "safe" and the "best quality." I am actually quite curious.

Certainly, our ancestors ate meat, due to its high fat and thus high calorie content. Today, however, when it is unnecessary to eat animal products for survival, why shouldn't humanity evolve into non-meat eaters? We could actually feed a lot more people on this planet if 1/3 of our land wasn't being used for animal agriculture. The 2000 lbs of grains used annually to feed one livestock could be divided amongst 5 human beings (who can eat about about 400 lbs of grains annually).

A few things here... First, yes I have been to the ranch where my meat comes from. They are free to roam in big open pastures eating grass all day. And they are processed on the same ranch. So I'm very certain that they are of the best quality.

Now moving on to your second paragraph... You have now moved to admitting our ancestors ate meat. Why they ate meat is not important, the fact is we evolved to eat meat. This process of evolution is not an overnight thing, it takes a long time, we simply cannot "evolve into non-meat eaters". That takes millions of years of evolution. Just like with industrialized agriculture, we never could eat grains until industrialized agriculture, and certainly not as much are we are getting today. Thanks to that and the addition of some fancy science we now use corn, a big bundle of starch, for HFCS and a number of other things (all those abstract sounding ingredients are made from corn). But we have not had access to this stuff for the large majority of our evolution, so we're getting a tremendous amount of health issues from it.

[Imagination]

...Certainly, our ancestors ate meat, due to its high fat and thus high calorie content. Today, however, when it is unnecessary to eat animal products for survival, why shouldn't humanity evolve into non-meat eaters? We could actually feed a lot more people on this planet if 1/3 of our land wasn't being used for animal agriculture. The 2000 lbs of grains used annually to feed one livestock could be divided amongst 5 human beings (who can eat about about 400 lbs of grains annually).

Unfortunately this type of argument has nothing to do with health (the aim of the eating guide the thread started with) but more with belief systems. If humanity could evolve into non-meat eaters, don't you think they already might have...some where in this world? There is a reason it hasn't and that is because nature did not intend it and societies who have been forced (think famines for instance) or tried found they did not survive well. The game after all is not just surviving, but thriving in good health. Certainly in a climate like Canada has there is no way to feed a population based solely on plants. Our seasons just won't support it. Our grain supporting system has not supported proper veggies in the same way at all because they are harder/more expensive to grow. Meanwhile we have many examples of people's who have lived eating primarily an animal diet and they thrived without the type of disease and conditions our population is plagued with.

I don't buy the grains would feed more people idea at all. It might sound good on paper, but it doesn't really work all that well. You can see it in N. America where the emphasis has been on growing things like wheat and corn and telling us they were super for us (see the big end of the typical pyramid food guide). Unfortunately that effort to fill stomachs on economical filler is exactly what has damaged our health now.

That one animal being fed you mention would also feed a lot of people and much more efficiently (from our body's standpoint) than all that grain. Humans are not intended to eat grains by nature (hence the need to have them processed in some way because we can't digest them in their natural state. They are about as useful as wood chips are to us in their natural form.). We'd all be a lot healthier if grains weren't regarded as a staple. They are simply an inexpensive filler that is easy to grow compared to other crops and we've been snowed by our own gov't into thinking it's actually of some benefit to us. Also most ranchers who do grass feed are often feeding those animals on land that can't be used for other crops. Where they do use their growing land, they rotate grazing and growing land because that grazing land is replenished by those animals with vital nutrients to make it rich for future crops.

The real argument is why we are not growing and raising things better. Our present system is not good for our land or our bodies. When mixed farming was the norm vs factory farms, all worked as it was intended. We (humans) had a more balanced diet and better food. Now so much of it is full of fillers (grains/corn) etc. things are not what they should be but it certainly wouldn't be better for us if we all went vegan. For sure it's just not possible in a climate like ours unless you want to ship nearly all our food in from other places. It's just not sustainable on a grand scale.

[grammafreddy]

Geezuz, folks ........ how about "Moderation in all things." ???

We may be animals, but we really don't need to eat like pigs! (who, incidentally, do eat meat)