Evolution or Creation?

[cliffy1]

Do you believe in magic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaqRwFyoGgQ

[Glacier]

Hmmm, what about the Sherlock Holmes doctrine (which has recently been banned by a UK court)? Can't Bayesian probabilities be used to disprove or discredit the Bible?

..when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
(Sherlock Holmes in The Sign of the Four, ch. 6, 1890)

[Hmmm]

So, you are not aware of anything scientific in the Bible that is clearly wrong? So far no one has presented anything except, things that are presented as miracles. The Bible does have many statements that are of a scientific slant. As an example, in some religious books the earth is on a turtle or elephants, the Bible is free of such ideas.

I'll save you all the trouble, the Bible presents nothing in a scientific way that is proven wrong today. Miracles aside, as they're presented as such. Remember this part of the discussion started when someone said the Bible was flat out wrong (as in proven) about such things. I asked about what? So far I'm waiting for the what.

[fluffy]

How about Adam and Eve? Adam made from dust and Eve made from a rib taken from Adam while he slept? I don't find that particularly believable. Or the ensuing conversations with a snake.

[cliffy1]

How about Adam and Eve? Adam made from dust and Eve made from a rib taken from Adam while he slept? I don't find that particularly believable. Or the ensuing conversations with a snake.

But that is a miracle. Nothing scientific about it so it can't be debated according to Hmmmmer. You can't talk about turning water into wine or walking on water either... nope, not scientific.

[1nick]

Scientifically speaking,where did Cain find a wife?
Creationists argue that you can't get something from nothing...you know you can apply that arguement to creationism also.

[Glacier]

Scientifically speaking,where did Cain find a wife?

Presumably he married his sister.

I think this is a pointless debate because on one side we have claims of miracles that could have been performed by an omnipotent God, but on the other side we have the assertion that no such God exists, and thus no such miracles were done. Around and around we go.

[janalta]

But that is a miracle. Nothing scientific about it so it can't be debated according to Hmmmmer. You can't talk about turning water into wine or walking on water either... nope, not scientific.

So...realistically....one man and his sons could be capable of building a boat large enough to house two of every species of animals in the world, with enough food for all of them for forty days and forty nights?
That wasn't pitched as a 'miracle'.

Scientifically speaking....it is possible for a black death to take the lives of no one but the first born sons ...unless of course, you painted lamb's blood over your doorway. Haven't seen mention of that particular medical cure in any modern textbooks.

I've always been curious as to exactly why, for those who believe in all of the spectacular miracles the bible portrays.....why have there been no repeat performances for the past 2000 years?
You'd think with today's technology and mass media...god could get his word out a lot more effectively now.

[cliffy1]

So...realistically....one man and his sons could be capable of building a boat large enough to house two of every species of animals in the world, with enough food for all of them for forty days and forty nights?
That wasn't pitched as a 'miracle'.

Scientifically speaking....it is possible for a black death to take the lives of no one but the first born sons ...unless of course, you painted lamb's blood over your doorway. Haven't seen mention of that particular medical cure in any modern textbooks.

I've always been curious as to exactly why, for those who believe in all of the spectacular miracles the bible portrays.....why have there been no repeat performances for the past 2000 years?
You'd think with today's technology and mass media...god could get his word out a lot more effectively now.

I agree. Did you miss the cynical tone of my remark?

[janalta]

I agree. Did you miss the cynical tone of my remark?

I realize we are both on the same cynical scale here.....just responding to your question anyhow, as hypothetical as it may have been

[fluffy]

Remember this part of the discussion started when someone said the Bible was flat out wrong (as in proven) about such things. I asked about what? So far I'm waiting for the what.

Actually what I said was that for me there were stories in the Bible that exceeded believability to the extent that they must be either flat out wrong or never meant to be factual in the first place. I gave an example as requested, it's your turn now.

[Hmmm]

I gave an example as requested, it's your turn now.

If you're saying according to your beliefs you consider somethings flat out wrong, then you're right, we're all entitled to our opinions. I thought that there were things 100% proven wrong by science the Bible contains, like the example of 4 elephants standing on a giant turtle holding the earth up. Most if not all other religious books when referring to things science can prove are wrong somewhere in them contain such 100% wrong ideas. They reflect the misconceptions of the times they were written in. I'm personally happy to say, that no such, 100% proven wrong by science myths are in the Bible.

I of course am not saying everything in it is proven by science there just not dis-proven by it.

[fluffy]

You're the one who brought science into the discussion, I was just talking about the overall believability of many biblical stories, the ones that tend to go against what we widely regard as fact. Like the talking snake thing.

I'm not saying that there isn't a lot of wisdom in the bible, I'm just saying that it contains so many obvious stretches of imagination that it makes more sense to view it as a metaphorical representation than a literal account of history.

[Glacier]

http://www.av1611.org/genesis.html

According to some, Genesis had 11 different authors... http://www.trueorigin.org/tablet.asp

[Graham Adder]

According to some, Genesis had 11 different authors...

I had no idea.
11 eh?
I only knew of Tony Banks.