B.C. Election 2013

Discuss the upcoming provincial election. Keep it civil in here, people. It's not the Political Arena.
NAB
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by NAB »

Donald G wrote:In my opinion there is far too much political posturing and far too little political fact displayed in this NDP opened thread.


I'm not too sure how often you are going to quit these threads "Donald", but you are coming across (at least to me) as someone who is trying to hide your real motives and objectives for participating. As Steven points out, you might feel more at home in the Political Arena forum.

But I am curious to know how you come to assume that these are "NDP opened threads", particuarly when I have told you that I am a card carrying BC Liberal who has never voted NDP before and vote Conservative federally - (at least ever since the Chretien and Martin crews set the federal Liberals on the road toward extinction).

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Urbane
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by Urbane »

I've been suggesting that people put things into perspective and Craig McInnes does just that:

Craig McInnes: For a province rich in scandals, this one is small potatoes


BY CRAIG MCINNES, VANCOUVER SUN COLUMNIST MARCH 6, 2013

Media have begun referring to Premier Christy Clark’s government as ‘scandal-plagued’ in the wake of the controversial leaked ethnic voters’ strategy document. B.C. has a rich history of political scandals, and three living ex-premiers who stepped aside early because of scandals that erupted under their watch.

Would you vote for a scandal-plagued government? The question itself implies the answer. How could you?

The question also starts with a judgment.

The judgment is that the government has been hit by enough scandals to qualify for the use of scandal-plagued as an adjectival phrase. In other words, journalists can now use scandal-plagued as a shorthand in stories to describe the government without having to demonstrate that it is justified.

And once the question is asked, it’s a hard rap for the government to beat; once the phrase “scandal- plagued” enters common usage, it’s pretty much a signal that the game is all but over.

I was away for a couple of days over the weekend. While I was catching up on the news, the phrase “scandal-plagued” jumped out at me in my Google search of headlines in respect to Premier Christy Clark’s Liberal government.

It was being used in the context of the ethnic outreach memo leaked to the NDP. Even her own MLAs are admitting how damaging it is.

“This is a scandal, this document. We’re ashamed of it. I don’t know how many times we have to apologize for it,” Liberal MLA Kevin Krueger said on his way into a caucus meeting this week.

But a scandal-plagued government?

“I think that’s a ridiculous phrase. Look at all the things we’ve done well,” he said, adding, “I can’t think of any other scandals.”

The problem for Krueger and the Liberals is twofold: First, when scandals become the focus of political debate, accomplishments get lost. The news over the past few days has been all about the memo, with little mention of the legislation being debated and passed.

Second, while the often-bombastic Liberal member for Kamloops-South Thompson can’t think of any other scandals since Clark became premier, the judgment of others will not be so kind.

There has been a growing list of missteps that have knocked the Liberals off their agenda, although none that would qualify on its own as a major scandal in my book.

Now that we have a setback that even Liberals are willing to acknowledge as scandalous, fairly or not, past missteps will be upgraded to the scandal list.

Yet as scandals go in British Columbia, even the latest breach, serious though it is for the Liberals and their chances of re-election, will never make the top-10 list.

How could it in a province where there are still three living former premiers who stepped aside early because of scandals that erupted under their watch?

Bill Vander Zalm was found to have a personal conflict of interest in a case that involved a property called Fantasy Gardens and a bag of cash.

Former NDP premier Mike Harcourt decided he had to leave politics even though he personally had done nothing wrong after reading a forensic auditor’s report that detailed how the fundraising branch of the NDP in Nanaimo misused more than a million dollars in charity bingo funds.

Glen Clark, who followed Harcourt as NDP leader and went on to win the 1996 election, stepped aside after a police raid on his house that was part of a criminal investigation. He was subsequently found to be in a conflict of interest but acquitted of criminal charges.

Clark also launched the infamous fast ferries project, which as much as anything became a symbol of the NDP’s “scandal-plagued” final years in office in the 1990s.

B.C. is also home to the first minister of the Crown in the British Commonwealth to go to jail for bribery. Robert Sommers, a minister in the cabinet of Social Credit premier W.A.C. Bennett, was sentenced to five years in 1958 for accepting money in connection with the issuance of timber licences.

A namesake of mine — although no relation as far as I know — soiled the family name as lieutenant-governor in the late 1800s. Thomas Robert McInnes summarily fired two premiers in circumstances that were deemed to be self-serving and capricious before being removed from office himself.

And while sex scandals have been less common, we’ve had those as well, involving cabinet ministers, prostitutes and spouses other than their own. Details can be found in Scandal, 130 Years of Damnable Deeds in Canada’s Lotus Land, a useful reference book written by William Rayner, a former journalist who was once the legislature bureau chief for The Vancouver Sun.

So, given this rich history, does Clark’s government deserve to be called scandal-plagued?

Hardly.

[email protected]

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun


Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Craig+ ... z2NpIPWPYS
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Drip_Torch
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by Drip_Torch »

Holy Crap!

Craig McInnes may be well advised to get checked out by a doctor - as it appears he might have been in a coma for the last 12 years.

The fast ferries? Wow... TIC lost more than the total cost of the fast ferries, in one quarter betting on the derivatives market and the lib's decided not to disclose the loss on the financials.

BC rail was investigated by the RCMP and the arm's length belonged to a wife or sister - depending on which way you look at it. HST, a public service co opted by political operatives, the most non transparent and lawless government I've ever witnessed in this Province.

When I think scandal ridden I'm not considering Glen Clark, who was acquitted of all charges and went on to become Jimmy P's number 2, but I do start thinking 20 year open ended contract and 1 billion dollar headquarters.

(Oh and Donald G... I'm not currently affiliated with any political party in BC and haven't been since I tore up my BC liberal card in 2010.)
Last edited by Drip_Torch on Mar 17th, 2013, 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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George+
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by George+ »

If you say the words "scandal plagued government" to almost anyone.
They say Christy Clark.
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Urbane
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by Urbane »

    George+ wrote:If you say the words "scandal plagued government" to almost anyone.
    They say Christy Clark.
You really go around saying "scandal plagued government" to people in order to hear their response? That's a very odd thing to do but maybe these people you've been testing should read Craig McInnes' column.
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Urbane
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

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    Drip_Torch wrote:When I think scandal ridden I'm not considering Glen Clark, who was acquitted of all charges and went on to become Jimmy P's number 2, but I do start thinking 20 year open ended contract and 1 billion dollar headquarters.
Conflict of Interest Commissioner H.A.D. Oliver concluded[3] that Clark had violated conflict of interest laws in British Columbia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Clark
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Drip_Torch
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by Drip_Torch »

Clark was deputy premier at the time of the privatization of BC Rail and resulting scandal.[15] Clark was also the Co-Chair of the 2001 Liberal campaign, which included a platform that specifically promised not to sell BC Rail.[16] In 2009, Michael Bolton, defence attorney in the Basi-Virk trial, alleged that Clark had participated in the scandal by providing government information to lobbyist Erik Bornmann. These allegations were never proven or tested in court.[17] Her brother Bruce Clark was the subject of one of the warrants. Though confidential draft "Request for Proposal" documents relating to the bid process allegedly provided by Dave Basi were found in Bruce Clark's home no charges were laid against him.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christy_Clark
Last edited by Drip_Torch on Mar 17th, 2013, 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by NAB »

Contravention of the Members Conflict of Interest Act is not a criminal offense, and does not result in criminal charges or penalties.

Nab
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Urbane
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by Urbane »

    NAB wrote:Contravention of the Members Conflict of Interest Act is not a criminal offense, and does not result in criminal charges or penalties.

    Nab

I was responding to an erroneous comment that Clark was cleared of all charges. That is simply not true. He was found to have "violated conflict of interest laws."

Interesting that we have three former living premiers who resigned because of scandals, two NDP premiers and one Socred (the guy who led the anti-HST campaign), and yet we keep hearing about all the Liberal scandals. Craig McInnes really nailed it and put these "scandals" into their proper perspective.
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by NAB »

"violated conflict of interest laws" is not a chargable offense.
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steven lloyd
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by steven lloyd »

Drip_Torch wrote:Holy Crap! Craig McInnes may be well advised to get checked out by a doctor
- as it appears he might have been in a coma for the last 12 years.

It seems deflection ("hey - look over there") really is the last and only course left for the apologists. :127:
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Drip_Torch
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by Drip_Torch »

I was responding to an erroneous comment that Clark was cleared of all charges.


Yeah, by removing a passage from it's full context in an effort to create an alternate version of reality that suits your partisan purposes.

The very next line from Wikipedia states:

However, Clark was acquitted of all criminal charges


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Clark
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by flamingfingers »

Mr. McInnis should probably check the definition of 'scandal' with an authority:

scan•dal (sk n dl)
n.
1. A publicized incident that brings about disgrace or offends the moral sensibilities of society: a drug scandal that forced the mayor's resignation.
2. A person, thing, or circumstance that causes or ought to cause disgrace or outrage: a politician whose dishonesty is a scandal; considered the housing shortage a scandal.
3. Damage to reputation or character caused by public disclosure of immoral or grossly improper behavior; disgrace.
4. Talk that is damaging to one's character; malicious gossip.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scandal
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Urbane
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

Post by Urbane »

    NAB wrote:"violated conflict of interest laws" is not a chargable offense.
Who on here said that Glen Clark was found guilty of a criminal offence? Not me. Glen Clark was found to have violated conflict of interest laws. Do you put that in the same category as jaywalking Nab? I'm bemused by the standards that some of you set for NDP'ers and the other set of standards you set for the BC Liberals.
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Urbane
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Re: B.C. Election 2013

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    Drip_Torch wrote:Yeah, by removing a passage from it's full context in an effort to create an alternate version of reality that suits your partisan purposes.
Clark was found to have violated conflict of interest laws. You have a very low standard when it comes to your NDP friends. Not convicted of criminal offence and put in jail? Good enough! LOL.

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