Freedom from religion is a human right

[sunshine11]

This post was removed by the author since it did not meet posting rules (contained all caps)

[kibbs]

The point is NOT to ban religion, but to ban attempts to FORCE your religion on me.

How does one force religion on you .At one point in history religious doctrine was the law and many aspects of our law are still based on it.Thou shall not murder.We like that one but it does not mean you are forced to be religious if you agree with it.

[Sneaksuit]

Sneaksuit YOU need to substantiate how it is similar, which you have not done so. I do not need to establish "How is that distinct from your view of religious belief?" until you have done so.

I have already done so in the statement that political policies rooted in politician's beliefs that have no support in science or the academics in general are the same as religious belief - they need not entail gods. I gave two examples, one being that marijuana is bad. This view, in fact, is found in certain religious beliefs, such as Islam, in which the Quran condemns the use of intoxicants [5:90] . Now in this perspective, since marijuana is not found to be bad by science or experience, and is illegal in some religions, how is the Conservative party (among others) who have caused much suffering because of it different than those religions?

[sunshine11]

How does one force religion on you .At one point in history religious doctrine was the law and many aspects of our law are still based on it.Thou shall not murder.We like that one but it does not mean you are forced to be religious if you agree with it.

How does one force religion on you? An incredible question after I have repeatedly given examples. Please do take the time to read my posts.

Much of the Old Testament law, which many wrongly attribute to being invented by the ancient Israelites, actually predates their civilization. The oldest deciphered writings that have been found date back about 4000 years (Google the story of Gilgamesh) and those laws existed fully formed then. That means that their origins have been lost in pre-history (no recorded evidence found). That means the ancient Canaanites adopted those laws as their own before a family/tribe went to Egypt to escape a drought.

That means that your assumption that "thow shalt not murder" is a religious based law is incorrect. We do not actually know the source which probably was around the same time as humanity became organized enough to build permanent settlements. You can clearly see that human organization required a code of conduct including a proscription on illegal killing, adultery, and care for one's old folks.

But then again evidence that Neanderthals cared for their old ones and had some sort of religious belief system also exists, so the code could be ancient indeed and cross human species.

Realize that all of modern humanity can be traced back to ONE FAMILY who left Africa about 70,000 yrs ago. Perhaps they had a different way of doing things that caused them to flee the motherland seeking a safe place to practice their unique laws and faith?

But, more realistically, what you are actually asking is: that, considering that much of our liberal and socialistic fabric of western society sprang up out of religious beliefs (e.g.: feed the hungry, care for the sick, look after those less advantaged), that such a human right as I am proposing would interfere with a continued evolution of said political reality.

[kibbs]

e.g.: feed the hungry, care for the sick, look after those less advantaged), that such a human right as I am proposing would interfere with a continued evolution of said political reality.

True spiritual expression through law can never deter the advancement of justice.You cannot blame religion for its corruption,no more than politics causes corruption.Its the choices of man that determines whether these things are bad.You may choose to abhor all religion and what its true meaning is and throw the baby out with the bath water.To deny religion and all its past is to deny who we are and where we came from.
Perhaps its the perversion of the literal followers of religion that have you worried.There are still many who are enlightened by its teaching and do good work.
Don't let the media infused biased harden your opinion of all religion.Sacred ritual is inherit ,if you don't find one you like you will make your own. I've found its an experience best shared.
When reading the book "a year of living biblically" the author noticed his oc tendencies disappeared when he took up religious sacred ritual.Food for thought.
Happy Sabbath to all if today is yours.I will bike to church and focus my spiritual energy together with all my peeps for the betterment of mankind and recharge my belief in my eternal spiritual being while I journey on through this human plain of existence.
I hope that the ritual you find on your journey is better than just hating religion on this thread.

[sunshine11]

I hope that the ritual you find on your journey is better than just hating religion on this thread.

removed by author as it too closely appears to be a personal attack

[kibbs]

I think you completely and almost totally misunderstand my position here. Accusing me of hating religion is misplaced and a typical kneejerk reaction to this idea

I 've reread and am still not convinced you have any idea of what is going on in the world or what spiritualism is.The wall you keep running into is at the end of your own narrow pathway of thinking.You might not hate religion but you seem very non accepting .
The road to enlightenment is lightening up.

[sunshine11]

This post was removed by the author since it did not meet posting rules (contained all caps)

[kibbs]

It is not me who should "lighten up" but perhaps you who should become more aware of the world outside of your comfortable religious assumptions and prejudices.

I'm not religious nor do I sit comfortably.Miles before I sleep. I'm an all faith spiritualist. What is your source that blankets all people of religion as robbers of freedoms.The heart of my belief is forgiveness that means acceptance of all peoples .even if their belief and prejudice is stuck in the dark ages.

[Fancy]

An All faith spiritualist still believes in God - isn't that also religion?

[Captain Awesome]

I wish there was a right of freedom from stupid people. And people obsessed with other people's business. And people who take things too seriously. And people who talk insane concepts about which they have no idea besides what they picked up on Internet. And people who go on and on about conspiracy theories, politics, false logic arguments, and quick ways to solve humanity problems by doing this ONE thing. And people who just argue endlessly from two very polarized points of view and never agree on anything. And people who can't seem to talk about anything else but one thing - Christy Clark, or drug legalization, or corruption of RCMP.

Seriously, after all that - good old Jesus/Buddha/Allah - they don't seem so bad.

[JLives]

So you want freedom from people who discuss ideas?

[sunshine11]

This post was removed by the author since it did not meet posting rules (contained all caps) as follows:" As IF SUCH A HUMAN RIGHT WAS RECOGNIZED!"


This is my last attempt at achieving enlightenment in you. If this fails our conversation is over.

[Captain Awesome]

So you want freedom from people who discuss ideas?

Not all ideas are good. In fact, most are just awful. Just like most people are not exactly smart. Think how dumb an average person is...and imagine that half the people are even dumber than that.

[JLives]

So you want freedom from ideas you don't agree with?