The push to end homelessness.

[sanfish]

The only problem with the barracks idea, Is they would consider this a jail. The druggies can't expect the dealers to deliver to the door. The drunks would not expect the liquor board to deliver to the door, So they would have to go down town shopping.Now if people do not want to see them on the street, then you would have to keep them against their will. ( hence just like jail).So no that idea will not work. How would the ones who beg for a living make out?? they would be bored stiff.I guess they could play catch all day with their dogs. I really apologize for being so harsh with my thoughts towards drunks, druggies and beggars, It was only because people are sick and tired of seeing them on our streets,and are even afraid to go near where they hang out. The beggars follow the people. so I have no idea about what we should do about them. Perhaps if you write your MLA we could get a law passed which would not allow begging on the streets,( oops forgot,we already has that. It didn't work because we infringed on their rights, so it was allowed) I wonder how many beggars are standing outside the Parliament buildings in Ottawa.? I think someone told them Kelowna has nicer weather lol. As I have stated earlier, If you want them off our streets, so they are not visible and don't bother you, Not to mention how much the tourists enjoy their company, then their is only one way. The same way it worked here for years and years. As I mentioned in earlier posts. It is the ONLY way. Try as you might. No other programs will work. Do you think, they all haven't been tried . But perhaps the new wave of younger people have a different view, Let' wait ten ten twenty years and see if it works.

The other glaring problem with the "Barracks idea" is that includes the use of "Barracks". One cannot hope to solve a problem with the same energies that created it in the first place. Building any kind of "Barracks" on the outskirts of town only leads to further marginalize people already having a hard go of it. This shouldn't be about "getting bums off the streets" or pretending to help them so we can "keep them out of sight". One need only take a step back for the solution to become self evident. As a society we have failed.....and miserably at that. We need only to stop allowing the practices which lead directly to these conditions. We have allowed a privatization of profits ( which in the case of the BILLIONS the banks make aren't even subject to income tax) while socializing their losses ( which in the case if the banks is due to the greed shown while working hard to devalue the purchasing power of our currency through the hidden tax called inflation). We have 2 sets of rules: one for the disadvantaged we let the elite called "entitled", and another for the self appointed/entitled elite. We need to create better economic practices that leaf to more jobs /manufacturing rather than the extraction of our wealth and resources . We need to provide proper education to those who want it rather than increasing the cost of edu-indoctrination. We need to spend money helping people to feed themselves rather than spending more money killing them .in short, we need only start acting like we believe we already are

[Trigger69]

No need for outrage, I didn't mean any offence (apologies) and yes I admit I did scan-read through this. Multitasking...too busy.

Tell me more regarding June Springs. I looked at that property a while ago with some friends, when the ranch was on the market. We were looking at a business investment, but ended up kicking tires. Looked OK at the time and there was no real sign of any shenanigans.

June Springs was just a suggestion or an example. There has been many things in the past that has happened at "the ranch" that are to say the least "shady". What I am suggesting is there are plenty of places in the areas I suggested that could be utilized for nothing more than to remove the individuals..because thats what they are...people... from the areas (down town) where they affect so many others. Remove them from the drug dealing equation and I think it may help put a dent in the problem. I know this sounds crappy but I am only calling it like I see it. Yes these people are troubled, addicted and for a large part suffer from MH issues. By no means am I suggesting a "jail" or the like. I am suggesting a place where these people can seek shelter, medical/mental help and work at becoming contributors to society once again. Long term the project could be expanded to job training and parenting skills as well. The post that speaks of students and people apprenticing to help offset the cost is spot on. This is something that could be carried forward with the people taught new skills once in the program.....to keep the facilities funtioning at an acceptable level. I will say this...I think you are correct when you were speaking about the police. I feel they have little to no power when it comes to this problem at hand to know fault of their own. If a facility was implimented the courts could come on board as well and instead of handing down 30 day sentences for buying drugs...give these people a second chance at life. This would IMO open the door for the courts to actually hand down meaningful sentences to those caught selling their poison to these people. This is a dream of mine that could be implimented....with or without gov't funding.

[sanfish]

So to recap, the solution(s) tithe homelessness problem is/are

A) Do nothing as there is no problem because people that are homeless are happy to be "milking the system" for a whopping $600/month

B) Do nothing as there is no solution because SOME people want to be homeless "milking the system " for a whopping $600/month

C) Build Barrack type housing out if the way somewhere (akin to an animal farm perhaps) to remove these unsightly people from where we like to stroll while pretending these problems don't exist

D) Some combination of all if the above

Wow! Nope we haven't failed as a society at all

Ending poverty/homelessness/etc isn't as hard as its made out to be. Perhaps , as a society, we could stop allowing the very practices that cause these problems? As for the ones who "really want to be there", wouldn't the problem solve itself ( read there'd be no problem with their homelessness because they wouldn't have a problem with it seeing as how they'd "want to be there" so bad. For the ones actually causing harm and breaking the Law, we already have systems in place for that. Criminal behaviour is one thing, but criminalizing behaviour is actually CRIMINAL

[Trigger69]

So to recap, the solution(s) tithe homelessness problem is/are

A) Do nothing as there is no problem because people that are homeless are happy to be "milking the system" for a whopping $600/month

B) Do nothing as there is no solution because SOME people want to be homeless "milking the system " for a whopping $600/month

C) Build Barrack type housing out if the way somewhere (akin to an animal farm perhaps) to remove these unsightly people from where we like to stroll while pretending these problems don't exist

D) Some combination of all if the above

Wow! Nope we haven't failed as a society at all

Ending poverty/homelessness/etc isn't as hard as its made out to be. Perhaps , as a society, we could stop allowing the very practices that cause these problems? As for the ones who "really want to be there", wouldn't the problem solve itself ( read there'd be no problem with their homelessness because they wouldn't have a problem with it seeing as how they'd "want to be there" so bad. For the ones actually causing harm and breaking the Law, we already have systems in place for that. Criminal behaviour is one thing, but criminalizing behaviour is actually CRIMINAL

No your recap is completely bogus and you know it. Re-read many of the good posts and you will see some think these people are nothing more than trash but then there are a lot of other posts with really good ideas that know that these people are people who need some sort of help to escape the life they are trapped in. And as for your Criminal system already in place....you tell me how that system helps people break the revolving door of homelessness....I will tell you it DOES NOT!

[sanfish]

No your recap is completely bogus and you know it. Re-read many of the good posts and you will see some think these people are nothing more than trash but then there are a lot of other posts with really good ideas that know that these people are people who need some sort of help to escape the life they are trapped in. And as for your Criminal system already in place....you tell me how that system helps people break the revolving door of homelessness....I will tell you it DOES NOT!

I'm unsure which is worse: your comprehension of my post or the assumptions you drew from it. I'd first like to point out that obviously our definitions of a "good idea" must be completely different. Many of the ideas ( ill admit right now I can't be certain that I've read every single post on this thread) have had more to do with ending the unsightlyness of the homeless than it has to do with getting people adequate shelter.

"As for my criminal justice system"? It's certainly not my system , but ill do my best to address your "point". Some posters on here have mentioned the crimminal element among the homeless . My point was that many are not criminals at all! Most are doing the best they can with the situations they find themselves in. I'll go further to say that this "revolving door" you speak of is directly due to what I called criminalizing behaviour ( as opposed to actual crimminal behaviour that breaks the Law). In fact ,it would be cheaper if these resources were freed up and instead used to fix the problems that lead to homelessness before it does.

To often people make the mistake if tying to unrelated /loosely related issues together and drawing a conclusion from there. Homelessness and criminality , while sadly often coexisting, are 2 completely separate issues. One is a physical reality, the other is how some may choose to deal with said reality. I was merely pointing out for the far Right from centre posters that we can still fix most ( if not all of society's problems) without being held hostage by criminals .

In short, you completely misread/misunderstood my whole post and couldn't have got it more wrong if you tried ( like some posters on here. No need to mention any names as the trolls already know who they are)

[Trigger69]

.....repeated post

[Trigger69]

I'm unsure which is worse: your comprehension of my post or the assumptions you drew from it. I'd first like to point out that obviously our definitions of a "good idea" must be completely different. Many of the ideas ( ill admit right now I can't be certain that I've read every single post on this thread) have had more to do with ending the unsightlyness of the homeless than it has to do with getting people adequate shelter.

"As for my criminal justice system"? It's certainly not my system , but ill do my best to address your "point". Some posters on here have mentioned the crimminal element among the homeless . My point was that many are not criminals at all! Most are doing the best they can with the situations they find themselves in. I'll go further to say that this "revolving door" you speak of is directly due to what I called criminalizing behaviour ( as opposed to actual crimminal behaviour that breaks the Law). In fact ,it would be cheaper if these resources were freed up and instead used to fix the problems that lead to homelessness before it does.

To often people make the mistake if tying to unrelated /loosely related issues together and drawing a conclusion from there. Homelessness and criminality , while sadly often coexisting, are 2 completely separate issues. One is a physical reality, the other is how some may choose to deal with said reality. I was merely pointing out for the far Right from centre posters that we can still fix most ( if not all of society's problems) without being held hostage by criminals .

In short, you completely misread/misunderstood my whole post and couldn't have got it more wrong if you tried ( like some posters on here. No need to mention any names as the trolls already know who they are)

Then I stand corrected. I share the same thoughts, well many of the same thoughts as you regarding criminality as it relates to being homeless etc. I guess my point is when I read your post, I felt you didnt read the good posts and you neglected to add that to your "to sum it up" idea. If you were being sarcastic with your post I took it as not being such and again I stand corrected if this is the case. I work closely with the people we speak and I frequent down town and know the pain they suffer as well as the advantages the dealers reap when they pray on them. I also know the issues associated to the business owners down town who have to wake many people up just to get into their shops in the morning. If this is happening to the business owners who have a vested interested in actually being down town can you imagine what it does to the people who CHOOSE to go down town....I will tell you...they CHOOSE not to and this hurts us all. By no means am I suggesting I have all of the answers....on the contrary...I support group thought and would only hope some would actually see this is a problem that has both a solution as well as deserves one.

[Prestige Mike]

Perspective from one homeless man from Chicago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... JQ3Bgh8PE4

How do you post videos on castanet?

[james-d]

That is sooooo sad, It's a good thing something like that doesn't happen here in Canada. In the US a single man cannot collect welfare ,As they can here in Canada. And the welfare system will ensure you have a place to sleep, Go to edmonton or Toronto and you will find this is the case, Here in Kelowna, Being the small town we are , We do not have the resources or the facilities to house these people. Perhaps the churches who profess to be so kind to their fellow man would open their doors to the homeless. What. No one to man them, Won't allow drugs or alcohol on the premises, Why not these people have rights, Oh I forgot it's not because the churches can't do it. It is because they won't.do it !!There are NO!!! excuses for these hippocites not to do it. There are enough people who will say they are doing the christian thing and slip them a few bucks, But ask them to volunteer at the church.NOT on your life!!It has been proven that the homeless can't stay in the church because most of them do not wish to follow the rules. HMMMMM go figure.

[james-d]

I would like to see someone interview some of our homeless, On our streets, then post it on here, And I don't mean searching for one or two that have mental issues,I mean the beggars with their girlfriends and two dogs to support. And the young strapping young men who can't or won't work when offered a job. But they love do frequent city park on nice days to visit their drug connections, Oh, Another nice thing for our tourists to see makes you wonder why people don't like to go downtown to shop in Kelowna or walk the streets in the evening . At least not many older people, Because they are afraid!!
They want to build nice high rise buildings downtown, Well that's nice As long as they keep the doors locked down. I guess people have forgotten the problems on 97 where the Mac Donalds used to be near Abbott, Because between there and city park there were away to many of these nice young people hangin out. And y the buisnesses suffered. We Must keep them OFF our streets, Any Ideas on how we can manage such a thing to keep the citizens of Kelowna Happy????

[CorkSoaker]

That is sooooo sad, It's a good thing something like that doesn't happen here in Canada. In the US a single man cannot collect welfare ,As they can here in Canada. And the welfare system will ensure you have a place to sleep, Go to edmonton or Toronto and you will find this is the case, Here in Kelowna, Being the small town we are , We do not have the resources or the facilities to house these people. Perhaps the churches who profess to be so kind to their fellow man would open their doors to the homeless. What. No one to man them, Won't allow drugs or alcohol on the premises, Why not these people have rights, Oh I forgot it's not because the churches can't do it. It is because they won't.do it !!There are NO!!! excuses for these hippocites not to do it. There are enough people who will say they are doing the christian thing and slip them a few bucks, But ask them to volunteer at the church.NOT on your life!!It has been proven that the homeless can't stay in the church because most of them do not wish to follow the rules. HMMMMM go figure.

Something stinks a little like *bleep*. The welfare system does not ensure everyone has a place to sleep. That is more contingent on bed availability and shelter space which are usually non-profit. They are also not a permanent residence or housing solution. Our system compared to the US may seem generous but on a whole our welfare system is pretty lacking.

Go take a walk down Hastings street between Main and Cambie street in Vancouver and tell me our welfare system ensures everyone has a place to sleep. Kelowna is not the only city lacking in resources; it is a country wide issue.

[james-d]

YOU better take a walk, Montreal and Toronto don't have as large a problemas BC does and if you went down to hastings you would find druggies on the dole gettin free hits at our expense!!

[CorkSoaker]

YOU better take a walk, Montreal and Toronto don't have as large a problemas BC does and if you went down to hastings you would find druggies on the dole gettin free hits at our expense!!

Well if that is true it isn't something to be proud of.

Who is providing them with these free drugs?

[james-d]

Our govt, they are called methadone treatment centers, You are helping to pay for it.

[james-d]

I'm not sure I may be corrected, The NDP may have shut theses clinics down, They drew away to many drug users for free drugs.