Tic toc . . . tic toc . . . Israel

[unclemarty]

As we move steadily towards a major clash with global implications, thought some might be interested in keeping track of happenings in the hotspot center of the universe. Some may want this moved to the "religion" section...until it becomes a clear "World" topic. Whatever suits best.

Caroline Glick, deputy managing editor of The Jerusalem Post said: "Today Israel is threatened with annihilation and the U.S. Jewish community is suffering from more blatant and organized anti-Semitic attacks than it has seen in the past fifty years. ... Israel's next government will be called on to defend Israel against Iran and its Palestinian, Syrian and Lebanese proxies, And it will be called to act at a time when the U.S. is led by an Obama administration pledged to appease these forces. Israel will have to rally all of its supporters in the U.S. to its side in order to stand up for its survival. In light of the American Jewish vote, it is an open question whether Israel will receive the help of its American Jewish brethren in its hour of need."

God says: "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. ... "On that day I will make the leaders of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume right and left all the surrounding peoples, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place." (Zechariah 12:2-3,6).

The Jerusalem Connection says: In noting the future waning support for Israel, Caroline Glick has also revealed the future mission of the Christian Zionist -- "to stand up for its (Israel's) survival." Not only will Israel's survival be challenged, but also the survival of those who support Israel. Let's face it, God's people, Christian and Jew, will be refined by fire before Messiah returns. May His grace enable us to be faithful to His call.

[Jo]

I have removed everything from this thread except the OP. And put it in here, where there's a chance that the topic can be discussed in a reasonable and sane manner.

[Glacier]

Another site that shall go unnamed also has a "Riposte & Parry" section (perhaps some of it applies here as well):

Special high standards apply in this forum. Riposte & Parry is meant for respectful, intelligent, serious, well thought-out, slower-paced debates about all kinds of interesting issues. This forum is not limited to politics. There will be no tolerance for insulting other posters, personal attacks on politicians or others, and trolling.

This is not the place for distorting your opponents' statements, one-liners, snarky posts, charged language, polls, nitpicking, chatter, tired jokes, or answering without reading the whole thread. For example, instead of using charged wording in calling your opponent's statement a "lie," you should be writing that this statement is "untrue," "incorrect" or "mistaken." Only respond if you have a new argument or viewpoint to add, not just to reiterate previous points or to say that you agree or disagree.

Things to avoid:

*the use of ALWAYS

*the use of NEVER

*exaggeration

*presenting opinions as facts ...if it is an opinion, admit it

*saying "you are WRONG" ...there are softer ways of saying the same thing and still getting the point across

*disagreeing with obvious truths

Endeavor to:

*use MANY or SOME rather than MOST

*quote sources and cite references

*stress the positive

*concede minor points

Moving on...

[occasional thoughts]

Over time, and it is glacial in personal terms, I've come to realize what happened in Palestine/Israel after WWII, and I have come to understand why the Palestinians are so angry. They had a nation, and it was taken away. The world over, peoples are fighting for nationhood (Kurds, Sikhs, Quebecois, Scots) where they have been included in other nations of western ilk and design or other history where they may be significant minorities or even majorities. The Kurds are an excellent example of a nationless people and Iraq is an excellent example of a bizarre compendium of peoples forming a nation, none of their own natural choosing.

The Palestinians lost their nation, thanks to the US and GB and I don't believe this fight is EVER going away until something is redressed, I wish I had the wisdom to say what appropriate redress would be. The Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, etc., etc. of Eastern Europe went through decades and even centuries of intermittent or non-nationhood yet their nationalism survived all that passage of time until historical wrong were redressed within living memory. Palestinians will never forget, and so Israel will never be secure or happy in their state.

[Glacier]

The Palestinians lost their nation, thanks to the US and GB and I don't believe this fight is EVER going away until something is redressed, I wish I had the wisdom to say what appropriate redress would be.

That's quite the statement there. When did the Palestinians lose their nation? Did you watch the video above?

[unclemarty]

Israel sets up field hospital for wounded Syrians

Israel has reportedly established a large field hospital in the northern Golan Heights to treat Syrian's wounded in their country's ongoing civil war.

In recent weeks, 11 Syrians have crossed into Israel after being wounded in fierce gun battles between rebels and those forces still loyal to dictator Bashar Assad. Until now, the wounded have all been taken to Ziv Hospital in the northern town of Safed. Eight have been successfully treated and returned to Syria, while three remain in Israel for ongoing treatment.
Israeli officials expect the number of wounded crossing the border to increase significantly as the fighting moves closer to the frontier. Hence the need for a field hospital.

This news once again refutes claims that Israel is a racist, apartheid state that hates Arabs. In fact, Israel is the only state in the region that would go out of its way to help wounded citizens from a neighboring nation with which it is still officially at war.

Israel Today

[Thinktank]

*You would be WELL advised to read the Riposte & Parry terms before posting in here again/Jo*

[Homeownertoo]

Over time, and it is glacial in personal terms, I've come to realize what happened in Palestine/Israel after WWII, and I have come to understand why the Palestinians are so angry. They had a nation, and it was taken away. The world over, peoples are fighting for nationhood (Kurds, Sikhs, Quebecois, Scots) where they have been included in other nations of western ilk and design or other history where they may be significant minorities or even majorities. The Kurds are an excellent example of a nationless people and Iraq is an excellent example of a bizarre compendium of peoples forming a nation, none of their own natural choosing.

The Palestinians lost their nation, thanks to the US and GB and I don't believe this fight is EVER going away until something is redressed, I wish I had the wisdom to say what appropriate redress would be. The Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, etc., etc. of Eastern Europe went through decades and even centuries of intermittent or non-nationhood yet their nationalism survived all that passage of time until historical wrong were redressed within living memory. Palestinians will never forget, and so Israel will never be secure or happy in their state.

The Palestinians never had a nation. They were offered one in 1947 but rejected it. Actually, it was rejected by what was considered more broadly the Arab nation, including Egypt, Arabia, Joran, Iraq and Syria. That is one of the bedrock facts of the Mideast, and a fact that is widely known. And there is nothing to redress except, perhaps, the continued assaults upon the nation of Israel for simply existing and the pathetic condition in which Arab nations have, for political purposes, held the refugees of 1947-48 and their offspring.

You are on more solid ground with Iraq.

Now that this topic has been moved to this section, it is expected to be addressed on a more responsible level than it was by some participants in its earlier incarnation. That, to me at least, means participants have a responsibility to bring a higher level of understanding of the issues to the discussion, or, failing that, an interest that incorporates a willingness to learn from those who do have that understanding.

[unclemarty]

Israel: Our peace partners can't, won't keep promises

Israeli defense officials say the killing of two IDF soldiers in recent days again demonstrates that the Palestinian Authority either can't or won't honor its security obligations as part of any peace agreement.

Israel's primary goal in the peace process is to end decades of Arab violence against the nation's Jewish population. Even the demand that the Palestinian Authority officially recognize Israel as the Jewish state is tied to this goal, as it will blunt arguments that terrorism against Israel is justified because the Jews are foreign usurpers.

But the Palestinian Authority's current behavior betrays the fact that its intentions are not in line with Israel's in this regard.
"Over the past few months, there have been numerous instances in which terror attacks were foiled, but all were foiled solely by the Israelis," a senior defense source told the left-leaning Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz.
That same source noted that the Palestinian Authority has done little to arrest the perpetrators of recent acts of violence against Israeli Jews, and that not one terrorist had been tried by Palestinian courts over the past year.

The situation again leaves many Israelis to wonder, if the Palestinian Authority either cannot or will not fulfill its primary peace obligations, what is the point of the peace process in the first place?

Israel Today

[unclemarty]

The speech the world needed to hear

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not go the United Nations with a set of gimmicks. The prime minister chose a serious, tough and disillusioned speech; almost extraordinary during a time when the world seems to be more interested in fantasy. Iranian President Hasan Rouhani provided that in spades in his speech last week. Netanyahu took it upon himself on Tuesday to do the unpleasant thing and show us the harsh reality that is the Iranian nuclear program.

It was not the speech the world wanted to hear, but it was the speech it needed to hear. Netanyahu was not looking to make friends in his speech Tuesday. He was looking to give the world the truth -- and the truth sometimes hurts. Clearly, the world would rather live in the Iranian bubble, which Netanyahu came to burst Tuesday...
Boaz Bismuth - Israel Hayom

Netanyahu to U.N. General Assembly - full text & video:
http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newslet ... p?id=12291

[unclemarty]

IDF relief team on way home from Philippines
Israel Hayom

Over the past two weeks, Israel Defense Forces doctors in the Philippines treated 2,686 patients, including 848 children • IDF team trains local education officials on how to help teachers and students cope with the effects of Typhoon Haiyan.

The Israel Defense Forces disaster relief team was expected to arrive back in Israel on Wednesday afternoon after a two-week mission to the Philippines to provide assistance in the wake of Typhoon Haiyan. One of the IDF team's activities in the Philippines was training local educational personnel in how to handle mental health issues that would arise in the aftermath of the disaster.

IDF Mental Health Department head Col. Dr. Eyal Fruchter took part in seminars that more than 120 local education officials attended. The seminars focused on how to help teachers and students cope with the effects of the storm.
"This is not the first natural event to happen in the region, but it was a huge event that came a month after a major earthquake," Col. Fruchter said of Typhoon Haiyan. "We gave them a model, which helped them realize they were not alone. They have an optimistic outlook on the world."

According to the IDF Blog, the IDF team was scheduled to land at Ben-Gurion International Airport at 3 p.m. on Wednesday. Two Filipino children are being brought to Israel for further medical care. The IDF said that, over the past two weeks, 2,686 patients, including 848 children, were treated by IDF doctors at a field hospital in Bogo City. Some 60 surgeries were performed and IDF gynecological personnel were involved in more than 30 births.

The IDF left behind some medical and rescue equipment in the Philippines, including tents, generators, various types of medicine and an X-ray machine. The IDF team also helped repair schools damaged in the storm. Four schools were repaired and reopened entirely, the IDF Blog said.

[unclemarty]

Thousands Fled Jerusalem During Massive Winter Storm
Israel Today

The massive three-day winter storm that slammed Israel over the weekend finally came to an end on Sunday, though its effects were still being felt throughout the country, especially in Jerusalem and the Galilee.

During the height of the storm, hundreds of people were stranded on the roads leading in and out of Jerusalem, and thousands fled the capital via train. In fact, Israel Railways took the unprecedented step of running trains into and out of Jerusalem during Shabbat to help people escape the worst of the storm.

In Jerusalem, thousands of homes were without power, many of them for over 48 hours as fallen trees had snapped many lines. The situation was similar in the north of the country. Even on Sunday morning, with clear skies and the sun shining, over 19,000 homes in Israel remained disconnected from the power grid.

Public transport was also slow to come back online. With well over half a meter (two feet) of snow in most parts of Jerusalem over the weekend, much ice remained by Sunday morning, leaving the capital virtually cut off from the rest of the country. Black ice was a major threat, even on streets that appeared to be clear, and the public was warned to refrain from using private vehicles throughout the morning.

Another unusual site during the storm was the presence of IDF armored personnel carriers on the streets of Jerusalem. With so many drivers stranded and freezing, and normal rescue vehicles unable to come to their aid, the military was called in to aid the situation.

Every year, the residents of Jerusalem hope and even pray for a bit of snow. But, as they say, you can certainly have too much of a good thing, and everyone in this city is breathing a sigh of relief now that the storm has passed.

[unclemarty]

The Dangerous Divided Jerusalem Fantasy
By Jonathan Tobin

47 years ago this week Israeli forces ended the division of Jerusalem. The city had been split during the Arab siege of the capital in 1948 and it remained cut in half by an ugly wall as well as by dangerous no-man's-land zones.

The victory in the Six-Day War ended an illegal occupation of the eastern portion of the city as well as the walled Old City by Jordan that had lasted for 19 years but was not recognized by the world. In breaking down the barriers, the Israelis not only reunited the city but opened access to its religious shrines—including the Western Wall and the Temple Mount—which had been off limits for Jews during the Jordanian occupation.

But as Israelis celebrated what is known as "Jerusalem Day", support for the push to reinstate the division of the city in the international community has grown. Every Middle East peace plan proposed in the last 15 years, including the three Israeli offers of statehood that the Palestinians turned down, included a new partition of Jerusalem even though both sides remain murky about how that could be accomplished without reinstating the warlike atmosphere that prevailed before June 1967.
But for those who believe that such a partition is essential to peace, the process by which a city that has grown exponentially in the last five decades, with Jews and Arabs no longer neatly divided by a wall, could be split is merely a matter of details. To fill in the blanks for its readers, Haaretz published a Jerusalem Day feature that provided the answer to the question.

Highlighting a complicated scheme put forward by a Jerusalem architectural firm, the paper asserted that most Jerusalemites wouldn't even notice the difference if their city was re-partitioned. On the surface the plan, which has been funded by a variety of left-wing sources, seems practical if complicated and expensive. But it is not only completely unrealistic; it is based on a fantasy that the real problem in Jerusalem is primarily one of engineering, aesthetics, and logistics.

Like every other element of other utopian peace plans that are sold to both the Israeli and Western publics as the solution that "everybody knows" must eventually happen, this vision of Jerusalem ignores the fundamental problem of peace: the fact that the Palestinians don't want it. The conceit of the divided Jerusalem scheme is that the old "green line" that once cut through the city as well as the West Bank is alive and well. Since the second intifada, Jews largely avoid Arab sectors of the city and Arabs do the same in Jewish sections.

The only problem then is how to "soften" the appearance of a division so as to codify the reality of a divided city without actually reinstating the ugly and perilous military fortifications that served as the front lines for the Arab-Israeli wars from 1949 to 1967. There is some truth to the notion that Jerusalem is currently divided in this manner. But it is a fallacy to assert that it is anything as absolute as the authors of the plan and their media cheerleaders claim. Contrary to the notion popularized by the terminology used by the media, there is no real east or west Jerusalem. The city is built on hills with much of the "eastern" section actually in the north and south where Jewish neighborhoods on the other side of the green line have existed for over 40 years.

The idea that this can all be easily sorted out by handing out the Jewish sections to Israel and the Arab ones to "Palestine" won't work. It is a falsehood to assert that 40 percent of Jerusalemites can't vote in municipal elections. Residents of Arab neighborhoods could vote but don't. If they did participate they would hold real power, but for nationalist reasons they choose to boycott the democratic process and the result is that they have been shortchanged.

While current Mayor Nir Barkat opposes division of the city, he has rightly argued that Israel has to do better in serving Arab neighborhoods because with sovereignty comes responsibility. But what the plan's authors also leave out of the equation is that a division would deprive many of these same Arabs of their employment and health coverage since a great number work on the Israeli side or get their medical treatment there. Will they give that up for Palestine? Just as when the security barrier was erected, many Arabs will clamor to stay on the Israeli side of any divide for obvious reasons.

Left unsaid in the piece is the fact that there are actually a number of interlocked Jewish and Arab neighborhoods. Nor does it explain how the Hebrew University campus on Mount Scopus (which was isolated as a Jewish enclave during the Jordanian occupation) could be reached from what they propose to be Israeli Jerusalem or how Jerusalemites could access the scenic Sherover/Haas promenade in the city. And those are just a few of the anomalies that go unsolved or unanswered in a scheme that treats transportation patterns and border security as if they were mere blots on the map rather than avoidable facts.

There's also no mention here about how security in this intricately divided city could be administered. Would Israelis really be prepared to cede the security of their capital to foreign forces? Could peace monitors be relied upon to respect Israeli sovereignty over the Jewish neighborhoods if they become, after peace, the object of a new intifada whose purpose would be to chip away at the rump of the Jewish state? Nor is there any reason to believe the newly partitioned city would be one in which religious freedom at the holy places would be respected, especially since the Arab side of the new wall will almost certainly be declared a Jew-free zone by the Palestinian Authority and its Hamas allies/antagonists.

Just as important, rather than allowing a city that has grown by leaps and bounds to continue to thrive, a new partition would create more than political barriers. It would strangle the city's economy, a common fate for all divided cities. That is something that would damage both Jews and Arabs. But even if we were to concede that all these problems could be somehow miraculously worked out to the satisfaction of all sides, one big obstacle remains to the implementation of this plan: Palestinian cooperation. This is, after all, pretty much the same plan that Ehud Olmert offered to PA leader Mahmoud Abbas in 2008.

Abbas fled the negotiating table rather than be forced to respond to a plan that would have involved recognizing the legitimacy of a Jewish state no matter where its borders are drawn. Compromise is always possible when both sides desire an outcome in which each will get some but not all of what they want. But so long as Palestinian national identity is still inextricably linked with the war on Zionism, no plan, no matter how reasonable sounding, can work. It is telling that although groups dedicated to co-existence liberally funded the partition plan, there is not one Palestinian Arab architect associated with it. That is not an accident. Had the Palestinians wanted to accept a divided Jerusalem as part of their new state they could have had one in 2000, 2001, 2008, or even this year had they chosen to negotiate seriously with a Netanyahu government that was already prepared to cede most of the West Bank. But they didn't take it and there's no indication that they will change their mind anytime soon.

The obstacle to dividing Jerusalem isn't one of aesthetics or engineering or even the problem of drawing a border in a place that causes the least harm to both sides. It is about a conflict that won't be resolved until the Palestinians give up their fantasy of eradicating the Jewish state.

When that happens, then perhaps utopian designs such as this one will be feasible and Israelis will be willing to give up their rightful claim to all of their historic capital and share sovereignty. But until then, the only point of such plans is to undermine Jewish claims to the city in a manner that undermines hope for peace.

[unclemarty]

Don’t Miss…tonight at 7

ISRAEL INDIVISIBLE
Laurie Cardoza Moore’s new ground-breaking film exposing Israel’s rights to her ancient homeland!

Date: Monday, Aug. 4
Time: 7:00 pm

live streaming available here:

http://elshaddaiministries.us/livestream.html

[unclemarty]

Excellent performance by the IDF








...like usual.