A Question of the Path to Heaven

[cliffy1]

So what colour was Jesus Christ? I have others telling me the same thing with no back up. I would like to see your and others
evidence....I'm actually really interested in your evidence.

[averagejoe]

"Christianity is the Monsanto of religions. Its goal is the monoculture of belief. Christianity is roundup ready." - Spade

And I thought you were a spiritual man. Me thinks I see a lot of anger instead......

[averagejoe]

I stopped watching when the guy says there is no description of Christ....come on, give some good evidence as to what colour he was. Some historical evidence.

[cliffy1]

And I thought you were a spiritual man. Me thinks I see a lot of anger instead......

You see anger because you are mirroring, looking through the filters of your own personality.

[cliffy1]

I stopped watching when the guy says there is no description of Christ....come on, give some good evidence as to what colour he was. Some historical evidence.

There is no historical evidence, no body to exhume, all we have is what remains of art of that historical time frame and that says he must have been dark skinned and black haired.

[averagejoe]

Where does it say he was dark skinned and black hair? That is only your opinion. You give no evidence to back up our claim. Sorry a grainy video doesn't cut it. Where are statements, letters, drawings, Old paintings etc...
Jesus the Christ was from the Tribe of Judah. The Holy Bible gives Jesus's linage, http://www.chabad.org/library/article_c ... /Judah.htm all the way back to Judah.

Abraham to Jacob/Israel

http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/map-of-l ... jesus.html

Jacob to Jesus

http://www.ldolphin.org/2adams.html

Both Mary and Joseph were from the line of Judah. So both sides of the family were from Judah.

[cliffy1]

The bible is no more an historical document than the Flintstones was a documentary.

[Bsuds]

I have a question. If you are on the path to Heaven and you click your heels together and say "there's no place like home"
do you go to Kansas?

[cliffy1]

I have a question. If you are on the path to Heaven and you click your heels together and say "there's no place like home"
do you go to Kansas?

Heaven is a state of mind. Hell is too. Both are right here in this material life time. I'm sure you meet both types of people in your every day life, those that are miserable and those who sail through life with a smile, who are compassionate and caring.

[averagejoe]

Tom Harpur use to write in the religious section of the Vancouver Sun or Province. I read his articles. He was no big deal. This guy is anti-Christian and he writes about Christianity. But you could tell way back in his writings.
Why doesn't he mention that Armenia (Province of Parthia) became the first Christian nation in History?

Armenia was the first Christian Nation. Christianity was introduced to Armenia are 60 -68 AD. That's around 30-35 years after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. How did that happen if Jesus is a myth? Here is a good read for you.

http://www.welcomearmenia.com/armenia/f ... ian_nation

The bible is no more an historical document than the Flintstones was a documentary.

[alexoliversen]

Fair enough. There are many ways to divide the pie, or to sort out the peoples of the world. One could further divide things down further. I was merely breaking it down one way. Similarly, one could divide politics into the left-wing worldview and the right-wing world view, but as we know, each wing could further be divided depending on how specific a person wants to get. Heck, some divisions can have overlap. I wouldn't get too hung up on that division, though notice that even though the majority of Canadians are Christians, I lumped most Christians into the eastern worldview. Ie. There are many paths to truth.

Anyway, we could say that there are two views on how people get to heaven. The first is by works, and the second is by grace.

According to the Christian bible, a person is saved by grace, not works. When we think of grace, we think of mercy or favour, but grace actually means "God's ability" within a biblical context.

Many people within the church and outside the church suggest ‘grace’ means "freedom to sin," but this not what it means. "Faith without works is dead." This means that if you truly accept the gift of grace through faith, then you actions will change for the better. In other words, you don’t change your actions because you want to change, but rather, because your wants changed. Hear the words of that great preacher Charles Spurgeon:

Does a sin easily beset us? We are doubly warned to lay it aside. More grace is needed and more grace may be had. Never suppose that God has given to you a licence for any sin, so that you may live in it as long as you please; no, believe that Jesus has come to save us from our sins. I have received no intimation from the Lord to deal delicately with any man’s sins, or to become an apologist for transgression.

There are really two different reasons why people improve their behavior. The first is because they are afraid of being caught doing wrong or afraid of missing out on heaven, or afraid of hell. The second is because they have a change of heart, and truly want to do what is right.

Change because you are afraid of the law or of being punished or embarrassed is generally a short term improvement. As soon as no one is looking or the cops are over at the doughnut shop you jump back in your own ways. Permanent change only comes with a change of heart. A government can pass all the laws in the world, but if the people don't actually have an internal change, the law will be ineffective.

The message that Jesus taught was one of the heart. This is the opposite of the one taught by the Pharisees who believed hat following the rules was what mattered. The reason for the rule were secondary. Jesus came along and said, “no, you are a brood of vipers who follow the rules to make yourself look good in front of others, but inwardly your hearts are wicked.” Jesus also say, "if you love me you will keep my commandments." Love comes first. The works based systems is like being married, following the rules of the house, but not loving your wife. Sure you’re not cheating and such, but what’s the point if you have not love?

The religious leaders in Jesus’ day (and dare I say many religious leaders today) tried to make things better by making all kinds of rules, but it didn’t work because people’s hearts were not into it. Actually, many non-religious leaders through history have also tried to make things better with this same approach, but it really never works very well. Trying to change yourself on your own steam simply to follow a rule just doesn’t work very well. Making all the laws against marijuana or even cocaine will do almost nothing to change human behavior. The only way to change human behavior is to change the condition of the heart. We can see this in society when it comes to smoking and drunk driving. It wasn’t the laws that caused the changes, but rather, the attitudes of the people that changed.

This is basically what Jesus was saying about entering the kingdom of God. His message was that “love is the answer,” and as we know love is a condition of the heart. The Pharisees believed that it was enough not kill your enemy, but Jesus said, that if you so much as want to kill someone, you have committed murder in your heart, which is the same thing. It is also written that that god “resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” This means that if you are arrogant and proud, and think you can make it into heaven on your own steam, you’re on the wrong path, but if you humble yourself before god, and admit that you are a fallible human who needs the grace of god to better yourself, god freely gives you his grace (ability) to make it through the present situation. It says that God resists the proud, but give grace to the humble. It is the act of humbling oneself before god, and accepting the gift available to all of humanity that gets your name written into the “lamb’s book of life.”

Glacier you sound like you have a very enlightened understanding of what I was wondering about, thank you!

According to a letter from from Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar.

His golden colored hair and beard gave to his appearance a celestial aspect. He appeared to be about 30 years of age. Never have I seen a sweeter or more serene countenance.

Majority of these pictures and drawings show Jesus with golden colored hair. Hummmmm....

https://www.google.ca/search?q=jesus&so ... 00&bih=772

This comment on other hand sounds like the beginning of racism. What is holy shouldn't be what is the color of skin, your hair, your race, or creed. Sounds like just racist politics. Isn't this what you call idolatry in disguise - Worshiping physical manifestations instead of the spirit?

[masen]

Humility probably is the ultimate answer, however along with it is the necessary plane of mind. This ensures that it is not a grovelling attitude. Heaven is probably not a final resting place, but a Being state similar to God when he said my name is I AM THAT I AM. Heaven is not 'somewhere' where we sit around eating ice cream all day, but a state of Being.

[averagejoe]

According to a letter from from Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar.

His golden colored hair and beard gave to his appearance a celestial aspect. He appeared to be about 30 years of age. Never have I seen a sweeter or more serene countenance.

Majority of these pictures and drawings show Jesus with golden colored hair. Hummmmm....

https://www.google.ca/search?q=jesus&so ... 00&bih=772

This comment on other hand sounds like the beginning of racism. What is holy shouldn't be what is the color of skin, your hair, your race, or creed. Sounds like just racist politics. Isn't this what you call idolatry in disguise - Worshiping physical manifestations instead of the spirit?

Who Are you calling a racist? Governor Pontius Pilate or Tiberius Caesar?

[alexoliversen]

I am sorry. I am not calling you racist, but commenting on the overall sentiment on the boards of saying one race or color of skin is better than another. There is personal taste of what we like but that is not what I consider holy, as that is dependent upon the individual and changes.

On a more positive comparison of different religions: Did anyone ever read the Jodo Shinsu Shogyo? I noticed in there that they state one should "mix" with each other till we all achieve a golden tan complexion. The same light golden tan skin and dark brown hair ideal as Christ in many accounts. But personally, I don't think I am that holy as I have my own likes. Thus brings into question what is holy? Looks? Fashion? Or something else?

Also on the Chinese zodiac which has a little story with Buddhahood in it, has the goat/sheep as one of the wisest animals of the zodiac as it is considered the object of beauty in that it is wise, which is also the symbol of the Lamb of God.

I would like to think that our common beliefs raise man to new heights as opposed to create friction among us.

[annexi]

... The only way to change human behavior is to change the condition of the heart. ...

I believe there is a deep truth to this statement. A simple statement that can be understood and experienced on so many levels. I think, I hope, I choose to believe that living by the credo of love is the path to heaven.

Thank you OP for starting this thread.