Question to Atheists

[JLives]

It does not require faith. It requires EVIDENCE.

[Sneaksuit]

Jenny, as I asked earlier, please say what is evidence to you?

[Geckonidae]

I agree with much of what you say but your argument is faulty for the fact that the rejection of a belief in deities is also the belief that no deities exist, otherwise you are agnostic. That certainly requires faith. Read William James if you haven't before you argue against that. I also suspect that your arbitrary division between christianity and atheism with respect to faith is due to your faith in the human capacity to reason and that reason can access all knowledge.

Fine...some guy wrote a book and you agree more with how he defined some words than how I define those words. I'm OK with that. There are lots of people smarter than us who cannot agree on these definitions; just don't try to tell me what I personally think about a topic based on which definition you subscribe to and we're good. And yes, I suppose I must have faith in my ability to reason, and maybe that's the closest I'll ever get to the faith that some have in their religious views. That still doesn't mean that I have that type of "faith" that no gods exist, or that type of "faith" that evolution is factual. Seriously though, if you're trying to make me shut-up and go away, turning this thread into Philosophy 101 is exactly how you do it.

[Geckonidae]

Jenny, as I asked earlier, please say what is evidence to you?

I have a superpower, but I'm not going to tell you what it is. What would you consider to be evidence of my superpower?

[Glacier]

I don't know if you legitimately know what Fluffy meant by "hard-line atheist" or if you are just making your own assumptions. In any case, I can't speak for right wing people on either side of the theological fence, but I can tell you that being confident and opinionated isn't limited to being conservative.

Honestly I can't even tell what your point was other than slotting various people into categories.

I was putting forward my opinion on the matter, just as you are. To summarize: some people believe in objective truth (there is only one right answer), while others believe in subjective truth (all roads lead to heaven so to speak). Which is the better path? I don't mean to sound liberal, but that depends upon which camp you sit it.

[zzontar]

This is how much sense your challenge makes to me:

I may or may not have just farted a magic blue cloud. Either you believe that I did in fact fart the magic cloud, or you are an afartist who sees no evidence that I farted the magic cloud.

I'd like to challenge the self-proclaimed afartists here to describe the Fart they choose not to believe in. For that matter, the "believers" could chime in on the same subject. Put a scent on your Fart/no Fart for all to smell.

If you see an elevator door open and there is a group of people who believe in God, you will see how this moves them, you will see the confirmation of existence in their eyes... it is a power that brings some to their knees, something that can be shared by many, and also scorned by many for being a vengeful killer. The same could be said if someone farted in the elevator... just because you can't prove it for sure doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[fluffy]

It's been my experience that trying to explain any form of spiritual enlightenment to someone who has already decided that it's all a load of bunk is a hopeless endeavour.

[janalta]

If you see an elevator door open and there is a group of people who believe in God, you will see how this moves them, you will see the confirmation of existence in their eyes... it is a power that brings some to their knees, something that can be shared by many, and also scorned by many for being a vengeful killer. The same could be said if someone farted in the elevator... just because you can't prove it for sure doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The look in their eyes, falling to their knees, the warm feeling in their hearts- are not confirmation of god's existence.
They are all confirmation of human emotion and conditioning.
If you are told, over and over again, from early childhood ( by the parents, grandparents and authority figures that you trust and respect ) that when a certain feeling comes over you, it is proof that god is with you.....you're going to believe that it's true.....even if what you are feeling is simply a natural human emotion that is shared by people of all religious beliefs, as well as those who do not believe at all.

The same explanation can be given for those who say that when they look to god for answers and guidance in helping to sort out or solve life's tough problems - he answers them, he shows them the path to follow.
It's simple really - in the time and energy you are putting in to 'talking to god', praying, searching the heavens for answers....you are playing the situation over in your own mind. Much like meditation....you are clearing your mind of the daily clutter and concentrating on that one problem.....and in doing so, your subconscious brings you solutions that you hadn't been able to come up with before.
God didn't fix anything, he didn't answer your prayers or guide you.....you did it all on your own.
You've just been programmed all your life on what to call it when this happens.

[1nick]

It's been my experience that trying to explain any form of spiritual enlightenment to someone who has already decided that it's all a load of bunk is a hopeless endeavour.

That's a two-way street fluffy.

[zzontar]

The look in their eyes, falling to their knees, the warm feeling in their hearts- are not confirmation of god's existence.
They are all confirmation of human emotion and conditioning.

I was kind of bored and playing with my words... kind of like

If you see an elevator door open and there is a group of people and one just farted, you will see how this moves them, you will see the confirmation of existence in their eyes... it is a power that brings some to their knees, something that can be shared by many, and also scorned by many for being a vengeful killer.

... but whatever.

[Omnitheo]

except you can find out who farted, based on chemical composition of the air, and analyzing the bacteria in the guts of the people within the elevator. through science we can not only prove the existance of a farting event, but also discover who farted, and how long ago based on the dispersion through the air.

[WeatherWoman]

I love that faith in religion is being compared to a fart.

[Geckonidae]

except you can find out who farted, based on chemical composition of the air, and analyzing the bacteria in the guts of the people within the elevator. through science we can not only prove the existance of a farting event, but also discover who farted, and how long ago based on the dispersion through the air.

Smart Feller.

[fluffy]

Modern science is not the be-all-end-all to human knowledge, there's still a lot that's filed under "unknown". Science has yet to fully explain human consciousness, a phenomenon we all know to exist. And there is still that pesky old question of just what started this whole show. The point is that without any definitive proof one way or the other there can be no right or wrong answers, the best we can do is come up with some way to wrap our heads around it that feels right to each of us. My current feeling is that there is something more than what science has to offer so far, and that the current religious interpretations are not to be taken literally. For me, the word "God" is not synonymous with the thought of some guy on a throne somewhere with the cosmic control panel at his fingertips, but more of a collection of the unknowns we still have in front of us. I understand if that doesn't work for everybody else, but for the time being it's a tidy place for me to file a bunch of questions I know I can't answer.

[Rosieodonell]

We can also use the tried and tested method of,

He who smelled it, dealt it.

For those that are religous you can read the New New Testament, which states:

Do not question the fart, for the holy spirit gives off a wonderous scent when it embraces you. May it fill you with its glory!