Question to theists.

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
User avatar
JLives
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 19662
Joined: Nov 27th, 2004, 10:53 am

Re: Question to theists.

Post by JLives »

You can read it 1000 times with a degree and it still doesn't provide proof of a deity.
"Every dollar you spend is a vote for what you believe in."
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good."
User avatar
JLives
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 19662
Joined: Nov 27th, 2004, 10:53 am

Re: Question to theists.

Post by JLives »

removed double post
Last edited by JLives on Jul 9th, 2014, 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Every dollar you spend is a vote for what you believe in."
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good."
User avatar
steven lloyd
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 19172
Joined: Dec 1st, 2004, 7:38 pm

Re: Question to theists.

Post by steven lloyd »

averagejoe wrote: Maybe you should read what I posted.

Joe, absolutely nothing you have listed proves there is a deity. You are going on and on about histories of people and their mythology but that only proves people and their mythology existed. Just because some guy wrote it down doesn't mean it is actual fact. It is just what they believed. Could you imagine if they had access to chemtrail conspiracy websites ? (LOLOLOL)
Geckonidae
Fledgling
Posts: 124
Joined: Jun 11th, 2008, 7:50 pm

Re: Question to theists.

Post by Geckonidae »

averagejoe wrote:So you have come conclusion that everything is a fake?

The ancient nation of Israel was fake
The fall of Judah by the Babylonians and taken into captivity was fake
The fall of the Northern Nation of Israel by the Assyrians was fake
Jesus is a fake
12 Apostles are fake
Josephus the Jewish historian is a fake
Israelite People are fake
King Solomon's Temple is a fake
Stone of Israel is a fake
40 years of wondering by the Israelite's in the desert is fake.
King David is a fake
10 Commandants is fake
Stone of Israel is fake
All the Israelite names of towns and Cities in Modern Israel are all fake names
All the Israelite names in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq are fake
The King Solomon Mountain range is a fake mountain range
All the fake history of Jesus visited Glastonbury England
The fake fall of the Persian Empire when Constantine destroyed the their Empire to get the Cross of Jesus back


No, you're making the assumption that I've come to that conclusion about "everything". And you have constructed a list that includes items from different categories. You want me to say that It is all fake so that you can provide evidence for the few things in your list that actually are true and do have evidence. Mixing a few truths and possible truths in with the BS doesn't make the BS true.

Here, I can paste something I found online too:

However, archaeology reveals a different story of the origins of the Jewish people: they did not necessarily leave the Levant. The archaeological evidence of the largely indigenous origins of Israel in Canaan, not Egypt, is "overwhelming" and leaves "no room for an Exodus from Egypt or a 40-year pilgrimage through the Sinai wilderness", according to Biblical minimalists.[4] Many archaeologists have abandoned the archaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit".[4] A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has arguably found no evidence that can be directly related to the Exodus narrative of an Egyptian captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness, leading to the suggestion that Iron Age Israel—the kingdoms of Judah and Israel—has its origins in Canaan, not Egypt:[5][6] The culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult-objects are those of the Canaanite god El, the pottery remains in the local Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet used is early Canaanite. Almost the sole marker distinguishing the "Israelite" villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones, although whether this can be taken as an ethnic marker or is due to other factors remains a matter of dispute.[7]

According to the Bible, after their emancipation from Egyptian slavery, the people of Israel wandered around and lived in the Sinai desert for a span of forty years before conquering Canaan in 1400 BCE under the command of Joshua. While living in the desert, according to the Biblical writings, the nation of Israel received the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai from YHWH, carried by Moses. This marked a beginning for normative Judaism, and contributed to the formation of the first Abrahamic religion. After entering Canaan, portions of the land were given to each of the twelve tribes of Israel. For several hundred years, the Land of Israel was organized into a confederacy of twelve tribes ruled by a series of Judges. After that, notes the Bible, came the Israelite monarchy. In 1000 BCE, the monarchy was established under Saul, and continued under King David and his son, Solomon. During the reign of David, the already existing city of Jerusalem became the national and spiritual capital of Israel. Solomon built the First Temple on Mount Moriah in Jerusalem. However, the tribes were fracturing politically. Upon his death, a civil war erupted between the ten northern Israelite tribes, and the tribes of Judah (Simeon was absorbed into Judah) and Benjamin in the south. The nation split into the Kingdom of Israel in the north, and the Kingdom of Judah in the south. Israel was conquered by the Assyrian ruler Tiglath-Pileser III in the 8th century BCE. There is no commonly accepted historical record of the fate of the ten northern tribes, sometimes referred to as the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, although speculation abounds.


I'm done replying to you Joe, you are quite frankly the worst debate partner ever, and you're taking all the fun out of this. I do respect your dedication though, you are an ultimate Bible geek. Just like a Star Wars geek who can tell you absolutely everything about anything in the Star Wars universe, so it is with you and the Jesus universe. Or would that be the Abrahamic Universe? It's not a geek topic I'm particularly fond of; I would categorize it somewhere below My Little Pony and above Twilight, but I respect everybody's right to geek out about something important to them. Just because something is fictional, doesn't mean you can't be passionate about it...just look at how some people are with wrestling.
Triple 6
Moderator
Posts: 21069
Joined: Jan 14th, 2005, 2:30 pm

Re: Question to theists.

Post by Triple 6 »

People, please stop posting off topic comments and websites. We will start deleting.
"A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself." -- Josh Billings
User avatar
averagejoe
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 17296
Joined: Nov 23rd, 2007, 10:50 pm

Re: Question to theists.

Post by averagejoe »

Geckonidae wrote:No, you're making the assumption that I've come to that conclusion about "everything". And you have constructed a list that includes items from different categories. You want me to say that It is all fake so that you can provide evidence for the few things in your list that actually are true and do have evidence. Mixing a few truths and possible truths in with the BS doesn't make the BS true.

Here, I can paste something I found online too:

However, archaeology reveals a different story of the origins of the Jewish people: they did not necessarily leave the Levant. The archaeological evidence of the largely indigenous origins of Israel in Canaan, not Egypt, is "overwhelming" and leaves "no room for an Exodus from Egypt or a 40-year pilgrimage through the Sinai wilderness", according to Biblical minimalists.[4] Many archaeologists have abandoned the archaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit".[4] A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has arguably found no evidence that can be directly related to the Exodus narrative of an Egyptian captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness, leading to the suggestion that Iron Age Israel—the kingdoms of Judah and Israel—has its origins in Canaan, not Egypt:[5][6] The culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult-objects are those of the Canaanite god El, the pottery remains in the local Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet used is early Canaanite. Almost the sole marker distinguishing the "Israelite" villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones, although whether this can be taken as an ethnic marker or is due to other factors remains a matter of dispute.[7]

According to the Bible, after their emancipation from Egyptian slavery, the people of Israel wandered around and lived in the Sinai desert for a span of forty years before conquering Canaan in 1400 BCE under the command of Joshua. While living in the desert, according to the Biblical writings, the nation of Israel received the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai from YHWH, carried by Moses. This marked a beginning for normative Judaism, and contributed to the formation of the first Abrahamic religion. After entering Canaan, portions of the land were given to each of the twelve tribes of Israel. For several hundred years, the Land of Israel was organized into a confederacy of twelve tribes ruled by a series of Judges. After that, notes the Bible, came the Israelite monarchy. In 1000 BCE, the monarchy was established under Saul, and continued under King David and his son, Solomon. During the reign of David, the already existing city of Jerusalem became the national and spiritual capital of Israel. Solomon built the First Temple on Mount Moriah in Jerusalem. However, the tribes were fracturing politically. Upon his death, a civil war erupted between the ten northern Israelite tribes, and the tribes of Judah (Simeon was absorbed into Judah) and Benjamin in the south. The nation split into the Kingdom of Israel in the north, and the Kingdom of Judah in the south. Israel was conquered by the Assyrian ruler Tiglath-Pileser III in the 8th century BCE. There is no commonly accepted historical record of the fate of the ten northern tribes, sometimes referred to as the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, although speculation abounds.


I'm done replying to you Joe, you are quite frankly the worst debate partner ever, and you're taking all the fun out of this. I do respect your dedication though, you are an ultimate Bible geek. Just like a Star Wars geek who can tell you absolutely everything about anything in the Star Wars universe, so it is with you and the Jesus universe. Or would that be the Abrahamic Universe? It's not a geek topic I'm particularly fond of; I would categorize it somewhere below My Little Pony and above Twilight, but I respect everybody's right to geek out about something important to them. Just because something is fictional, doesn't mean you can't be passionate about it...just look at how some people are with wrestling.


It's to bad your leaving. I know it was one sided. You should have given some better evidence. Oh well.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

Thor Heyerdahl Says: “Our lack of knowledge about our own past is appalling.
Geckonidae
Fledgling
Posts: 124
Joined: Jun 11th, 2008, 7:50 pm

Re: Question to theists.

Post by Geckonidae »

Hmmm wrote:removed.


This was removed before I had a chance to read it, so I only skimmed it...didn't see anything worthy of removal though.

There was something about me not being religious and why I felt the need to mock.

Well, no, I'm obviously not religious in any way shape or form. I respect your right to be religious though. If you recall, I only started contributing in the Religion and Spirituality discussions when someone asked atheists why they were atheists. So I was invited in. :) It's not like I jump in all the time to dump all over religious people. I mock because I'm human. It's a valid form of human interaction. People have made comments that openly mocked me, and I laughed at them when they were funny. I especially enjoyed the comment about watering my pet rocks until they grow gills.

This thread, being a question to theists was obviously a loaded question. So why would you even take the bait? I think you understand by now that you don't have anything that would be considered evidence in a scientific or scholarly sense. You aren't going to convince anyone by saying that you have personal anecdotal evidence that you don't want to share because it will be mocked. It would have been more sensible for all theists to just ignore this thread entirely. I was comfortable sharing my atheist experience in the other thread and taking any jabs and criticism that would come my way. You shouldn't wade into a discussion like this unless you are completely OK with someone being critical of your views.

Oh yeah, you said I was a hater. Maybe that's why your comment was removed. If you want to repeat what you said for clarity, that's fine, I can take it.

Here's the thing, when someone is religious, it makes up a very important part of their identity. Your religious views are tied to your sense of self. So if I criticize your religion, you are naturally going to take that personally. It's not possible for me to attack your religious views without you feeling the attack is personal. From my perspective though, the attack is absolutely not personal. For me this is no different than arguing with someone over which is better, Harry Potter or Lord of The Rings. (LOTR obviously) I can have that argument with a friend, I could mock them, I could call them a fool of a Took (I would say it just like Gandalf of course), and I could still be friends with them. Neither one of us would take any of that personally, there would be no hard feelings, because ultimately it isn't important. And neither of us would call the other a hater...that's a pretty harsh thing to say about someone you don't know from Adam.
User avatar
averagejoe
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 17296
Joined: Nov 23rd, 2007, 10:50 pm

Re: Question to theists.

Post by averagejoe »

Triple 6 wrote:People, please stop posting off topic comments and websites. We will start deleting.


The OP original question:

Where is your,
substantiated, quantifiable, peer reviewed, logical evidence,
that any god(s) exist?

You deleted my evidence in my belief that God wrote the 10 Commandments and were given to Moses, built the Ark of the Covenant and then King Solomon built his Temple to house for the Ark 400 years later as the center piece for the Temple.

Why was my postings removed for making my point.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.

Thor Heyerdahl Says: “Our lack of knowledge about our own past is appalling.
I Think
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 10452
Joined: May 29th, 2008, 6:12 pm

Re: Question to theists.

Post by I Think »

Proof that god exists???
As reported in Huffington today.


"Bob Murphey used to say, ‘You know, I feel so bad for atheists, I do,'” Gohmert recalled at "Celebrate America,” a three-week-long revival event. “‘Think about it, no matter how smart they think they are, an atheist has to admit that he believes the equation: nobody plus nothing equals everything.’”

"How embarrassing for an intellectual to have to say 'Yeah, I believe that,'" Gohmert said, citing Murphey. "Nobody plus nothing equals everything."

Gohmert delivered his final point to a chorus of applause as he concluded, "You couldn't get everything unless there was something that was the creator of everything and that's the Lord we know.” Gohmert did not elaborate on how he leapt from something to nothing to everything to the "Lord we know" rather than to, say, a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Gohmert also neglected to explain who would have created the Lord he knows, or whether the Lord created Himself before He existed.
We're lost but we're making good time.
hobbyguy
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 14032
Joined: Jan 20th, 2011, 8:10 pm

Re: Question to theists.

Post by hobbyguy »

http://www.myrkothum.com/the-meaning-of-the-finger-pointing-to-the-moon/

"“Truth has nothing to do with words. Truth can be likened to the bright moon in the sky. Words, in this case, can be likened to a finger. The finger can point to the moon’s location. However, the finger is not the moon. To look at the moon, it is necessary to gaze beyond the finger, right?”"

And as a panelist on CBC radio said, "people see the finger pointing and look at the finger".

""Nobody plus nothing equals everything." is the same thing that believers believe, and that essence is in every creation myth I have looked at.

It is also the infinite chaos that I admit I can't get my head around. That's why we have creation myths, or not.
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
User avatar
cliffy1
Übergod
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mar 5th, 2011, 12:41 pm

Re: Question to theists.

Post by cliffy1 »

The argument between creationists and atheists is a complete waste of time and energy. There was no beginning. Time is a human construct. Infinity has no beginning or end. It is infinite and to even begin to think that our finite brain can fathom the depth of infinity is like a flea trying to rape an elephant. It is ludicrous times infinity.

The biblical creation story and the Big Bang theory are the same story. It takes the same amount of magic, belief and faith to believe either one. Both require something from nothing and a beginning. The Universe is infinite. It has no beginning or end. People believe god is infinite with no beginning or end. Everybody is arguing about semantics. If they would stop and actually listen to what one another mean by what they are saying, they would realize they are talking about the same thing.

Why are people arguing about something that is impossible to comprehend with such limited awareness and consciousness? Step back for a minute and try to see how miniscule we are compared to the vastness of just what we can see of the Universe and ask yourself: How could I even begin to think that this tiny, insignificant speck of dust think that i could possibly understand anything more than a tiny, insignificant speck of dust? We are not much more than a quark floating around space on a proton. Do you really think that an infinite being would possibly care what you think or believe? Try to get some perspective on how ludicrous this argument is.
Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck milk from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long.
Volkh
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Jul 25th, 2014, 10:58 pm

Re: Question to theists.

Post by Volkh »

Of course there are 'gods'. They're not divine though. Who's to say that there wasn't a Prometheus who instructed early man to make fire? Ever since the library in Alexandria burned down, and other instances, %99 of what we knew before the Christian era is either gone or modified.
User avatar
cliffy1
Übergod
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mar 5th, 2011, 12:41 pm

Re: Question to theists.

Post by cliffy1 »

Volkh wrote:Of course there are 'gods'. They're not divine though. Who's to say that there wasn't a Prometheus who instructed early man to make fire? Ever since the library in Alexandria burned down, and other instances, %99 of what we knew before the Christian era is either gone or modified.

Christianity is a Readers Digest version of many former religions: Egyptian, Pagan, Buddhism, to name a few. Yes, much of the old knowledge was lost, but much of it is hidden in the Vatican vaults.
Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck milk from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long.

Return to “Religion & Spirituality”