Why do religions have to convert people?

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
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Glacier
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

Post by Glacier »

Everyone is trying to convert everyone else, and there's nothing wrong with that. Isn't it why we are on Castanet in the first place? Several of you have made a convert out of me on one topic or another, and possibly it's gone the other way as well.
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Hmmm
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

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*removed*
Last edited by Jo on Aug 8th, 2014, 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: off-topic
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Sneaksuit
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

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janalta wrote:What...you mean...scientists ?
The majority of non theists do not care what anyone's beliefs are...honestly...we really, really don't...as long as you're not trying to shove it down our throats constantly.
If you need your god to comfort you, to pray to, to make decisions you feel too weak to make, to make sense of this world...then have at it...just don't knock on my door or tell me that I need god in my life to have morals or be truly at peace and happy.

What I see the 'atheist movement' ( which has existed...well....longer than religion) is simply dispelling outdated religious myths with science, astronomy, archeology and common sense.
Never heard them say..believe now or burn forever.


Scientific materialism is the biggest myth of the 20th century. Why do you still follow that outdated religion?
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janalta
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

Post by janalta »

Sneaksuit wrote:
Scientific materialism is the biggest myth of the 20th century. Why do you still follow that outdated religion?


First off, anyone who suggests that science is a religion has absolutely no grasp of either concept.

Secondly, no where in my post did I even hint at the suggestion that I subscribe to the concept of scientific materialism. I am not a blind follower or supporter of those who push that belief, such as Hawkings, Dawkin and Sagan.
I do not believe that science has all of the answers to the universe...in fact, they're not even close yet.
They have theories. Theories with more supporting evidence than any religion has been able to deliver...but there are so many mysteries yet to solve before anyone can claim with 100% certainty that 'THIS' is how life began.

But...this thread is not a debate about scientific materialism...is it.
It is about why religions feel the need to try to convert people....so feel free to get back on topic if you have anything even remotely related to the original question to comment on.
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Sneaksuit
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

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janalta wrote:I do not believe that science has all of the answers to the universe...in fact, they're not even close yet.

But the fact that you say science does not have all the answers to the universe "yet" suggests you think it might one day be possible. Generally speaking, a materialist does not recognize qualities of the universe that reside outside the domain of scientific investigation as being real.

janalta wrote:But...this thread is not a debate about scientific materialism...is it.

It is, since scientific materialism can be defined as a religion and you are promoting it as truth in an attempt to convince us. Isn't that exactly what the topic is?
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janalta
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

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As I already stated...I do not subscribe to the constraints of scientific materialism. Sure as heck wouldn't attempt to convert anyone to believe it.
Not going to debate the issue in this thread.
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

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Religions are about money and power and the material concerns.

Would the kings of France (etc) have paid any attention to the Roman Catholic Church if they didn't control such a large following? Nope.

Faith is an entirely different matter and in a different sphere than religion.

There is an overlap. Where religions operate within that overlap, there is no tension with others.

Something like the concept that there are many paths to the top of the mountain, and each will get you there. The objective being to get to the top of the mountain - not worry about which path someone else chooses.
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
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annexi
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

Post by annexi »

Those engaged in a religious debate might be interested in reading the first chapter of the Quran for themselves at Quran.com. The first chapter has only 7 verses and talks about the nature of Allah. For uthe most part Allah sounds a lot like the God portrayed in Christianity. However there are 6 translations that differ quite significantly from each other in tone. This illustrates an aspect of Islam: the Quran requires of its reader an interpretation, the reader/studier of Islam is required to study it to find his own truth.
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Glacier
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

Post by Glacier »

There are two Qurans found within the book. The first one was written in Mecca, and taught such concepts as there is no compulsion in religion, but the second part was written in Medina, and instead of teaching a religion, it taught a totalitarian political ideology centered around jihad. As a religion, Islam was a failure as Muhammad only had 150 followers after 13 years, but as a political ideology it was a massive success. When Muhammad died every single Arabs was a Muslim. Of course, the ones who chose not to follow were dead, but that's a discussion for another day.
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

Post by I Think »

Oh dear, for every ounce of common sense here, there is a ton of rhetoric.
Somebody please enlighten this poor atheist, what the hell is scientific materialism???
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Sneaksuit
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

Post by Sneaksuit »

Glacier wrote:There are two Qurans found within the book. The first one was written in Mecca, and taught such concepts as there is no compulsion in religion, but the second part was written in Medina, and instead of teaching a religion, it taught a totalitarian political ideology centered around jihad. As a religion, Islam was a failure as Muhammad only had 150 followers after 13 years, but as a political ideology it was a massive success. When Muhammad died every single Arabs was a Muslim. Of course, the ones who chose not to follow were dead, but that's a discussion for another day.


If you're not going to read the Quran yourself, you might want to understand it through academic sources, rather than ignorant fundamental Christian rhetoric. Of course you could always provide your source...
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Glacier
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

Post by Glacier »

Sneaksuit wrote:If you're not going to read the Quran yourself, you might want to understand it through academic sources, rather than ignorant fundamental Christian rhetoric. Of course you could always provide your source...

Wow, so Wafa Sultan, Aayan Hirsi Ali, and Geert Wilders are fundamentalist Christians? I think you need to check their bios again.

Here's another fundamentalist Christian for you...

"No one has the right to apologize for something they did not do, and no one has the right to accept an apology if the wrong was not done to them."
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Sneaksuit
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

Post by Sneaksuit »

Glacier wrote:Wow, so Wafa Sultan, Aayan Hirsi Ali, and Geert Wilders are fundamentalist Christians? I think you need to check their bios again.

Here's another fundamentalist Christian for you...



I actually agree with almost everything Maher says but none of it supports the claims of your previous post. You're drawing your own those conclusions from his words. However, Maher does not mention many passages that promote violence are taken out of context, even by Muslims themselves that promote "killing the infidel", just as there are many in the Bible. Great video by the way!

Just so you know, I think Islam is the worst major world religion for many well known reasons. But there is plenty of evidence in the Quran that can inform people that its outdated without having to slander it, which can be counter-productive.

Anyone who's interested in learning what Islamic scholarship says about this topic might want to watch PBS, Islam - Empire of Faith - 3 hour doc!
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Glacier
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

Post by Glacier »

Ah, I see. My thoughts come from Wafa Sultan's A God Who Hates, Aayan Hirsii Ali's Infidel, and Geert Wilder's Marked for Death. To be clear, I have nothing against Muslims. They are are just like us, and most even peaceful. Muslims are people, and thus deserve respect; Shariah is bad and should never be given an inch in our country.

The problem that Ali, Sultan, and Wilders point to is with the fundamental teachings of Islam as taught in Medina, or as Sam Harris says, "the only problem with Islamic fundamentalists are the fundamentals of Islam."

________________________________________________________

The Story of the Poetess Asma bint [daughter of] Marwan and her Death

There was a poetess [in Medina] who wrote a poem against Mohammed and his new way of life, Islam. Mohammed said, “Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter?” One of his followers heard him and on that very night went to the woman’s home and killed her.

The assassin was able to do the work in the dark as the woman slept. Her other children lay in the room, but her babe lay on her breast. The stealthy assassin removed the child and drove the knife into her with such force that he pinned her to the bed.
In the morning, he went to Mohammed and told him [what he’d done]. Mohammed said, “You have helped Allah and his Apostle.” When asked about the consequences, Mohammed said, “Two goats won’t butt their heads together over this.”

Mohammed turned to the people in the mosque. He said, “If you wish to see a man who has assisted Allah and his Prophet, look ye here.” Omar cried, “What, the blind Omeir?”

“No,” said Mohammed, “call him Omeir the Seeing.”

From the Sira (the life of Mohammed).
"No one has the right to apologize for something they did not do, and no one has the right to accept an apology if the wrong was not done to them."
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averagejoe
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Re: Why do religions have to convert people?

Post by averagejoe »

Glacier wrote: Here's another fundamentalist Christian for you...



Glacier, which one are you calling a fundamentalist Christian? Bill Maher or Charlie Rose?
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