Kelowna one of the most godless places in the world

[LANDM]

I am sad to see what is happening to this world. Who wouldn't be. It's in a mess. And getting worse. I prefer to think back to the times when your children were safe at a young age to play In the streets with their friends.
They still are. Whether you are too afraid to let them is your issue.

When you didn't have to worry about them seeing porno on basic cable anytime of the day.
I don't see porno on basic cable without a consumer having to pay. However, there is much more extreme material on basic cable.


When there was no school shootings at all, nevermind on a weekly or monthly basis.
I don't see school shootings on a weekly or monthly basis.

When there was no ISIS.
There have been violent religious events and groups throughout history. Whether they were called ISIS is irrelevant.

When one didn't have to nearly get molested before they can board an airplane.
Yes, airplane security has gotten tight. Do you yearn for the good old days where everyone could order unlimited free drinks and smoke throughout the flight also?


When the police were not so busy with bar fights at 3 am they could get to someone in trouble.
Don't know what to say to this as I don't believe this is based on any stats. I believe they can get to someone in trouble.

When you didn't have to lock your car doors or even your homes.
You still don't. It's your choice. I know many who do not.


When kids respected their parents and answered yes mam and no sir.
My kids respect me. Virtually all of their friends respect their parents and the parents of their friends. They answer how I have taught them.

When kids could say a prayer before a football game.
They still can. They just have to do it individually or go to a faith based school.

Back to when there was no GMO.
Back to when we were lacking any of a huge number of technological advances......such as griping on the internet about days gone by.

Back before cell phones when parents listened to their kids instead of texting.
I listen to my kids. It also allows me to communicate instantly when they are away.

Back to when you didn't have to return every item you buy in the stores Cuz it's rotten or broken or missing parts or was recalled.
I dont have to return every item. I cannot remember the last time I had to return anything, I feel quality has gone up for products in general.


Back to when school dances had zero tolerance for alcohol.
I don't think there was every a time where that has been successfully implemented in the last century.

Back to when families only had one working parent because they didn't feel they had to have the newest fad and the extra income to spent on electronics, and where the mom was home when they came home from school.
Every family makes a choice when it comes to income and stay at home parenting. That has not changed.

Back in the 20's to the 40's when the majority of families did go for church on Sunday's. Cuz back then, the world was a much better and safer place. It's only when atheism was not a bad thing, and we decided we didn't need God, that things started to crumble. And gets worse with every decade to be sure. But those days are long gone,I only wish I had been young in those days.
But I don't live in fear nor do I live a sad life. But if this is all there was to life, if I had no hope of better things to come,then I would be a hopeless cause.

You actually do seem to live in fear and as someone has suggested, maybe it is your problem that you cannot unplug and look around to see what actually is affecting you. You yearn for days that you actually did not experience, instead idealizing those times in a way that isn't truly reflective of how those times were.

[FreeRights]

While the motives of the Crusades were largely secular, the rallying cry was religious. There was debate at the time over whether or not the Crusades should be a secular sponsored effort or a religious one. Many people like Martin Luther argued that the Crusades would be a secular effort. Ultimately, the Pope won the argument, and the Catholic church was the main force behind the effort. In hindsight, most people today -- even Catholics -- would agree that mixing religion and politics is a bad idea.

P.S. People often make the mistake of equating atheism with secularism, but they are not the same thing. Wars motivated by atheism would fall under a religiously motivated wars since the motive is to stamp out other religions (which is what all religiously motivated wars have in common). Most wars are neither caused by religions nor atheism. Instead, they are caused by secular totalitarian ideologies like fascism and communism. Both religious people and atheists can be motivated by secular ideologies (both good and bad).

PPS. Just remember that this is not a debate about religion. The term godless in the thread title is meant to get your attention. As described in the OP, it means that Kelowna has a large percentage of the population with no religious affiliation.

And you're absolutely right, but - and I could be wrong - but I cannot think of a single war that was motivated by an atheist mindset, though I can think of several that were motivated by a religious one.

[Glacier]

And you're absolutely right, but - and I could be wrong - but I cannot think of a single war that was motivated by an atheist mindset, though I can think of several that were motivated by a religious one.

That's a good point. Some people, irrespective of where they fall on the religious spectrum, are authoritarian and totalitarian, and thus have done some horrific things to ensure their ideas about religion are the only acceptable ones. I would say that they are motivated by an authoritarian ideology in almost all cases, and not a religious ideology. The one exception would be the one religion, which shall go unnamed, that integrates war into their religion.

[binky11]

I was going to type a response to each of your concerns, you almost got me...If you are a troll, congrats.

If your not a troll, STOP WATCHING RATED NEWS CHANNELS. Go outside, read a book, and would it kill you to meet a few atheists? We are nice people. I do not let my son watch porn, I value the outdoors, and I am sure we actually have stuff in common.




Every thing you listed has a different reason and cause. None of which is Atheists.

Gee it wasn't a trick question. I wanted to know what yours, and others opinions might be for the country falling apart. I was truly interested in knowing.

Thank you landm for your thoughts. I might not agree with most of them, but that's ok.
Wrong doings, greed, the desire for power, corruption of the people in power and in the governments, all the things that lead to immoral disgrace, are ALL things that a TRUE Christian would take no part in. Not for money, power or anything! That's the problem though, there are too few real Christians anymore. It's no wonder people are disgraced by so called Christians of today, I am myself. But it still leads to the question then.......why have our morals evaporated? Because everyone is so desensitized to the evils of this world that it must be ok, because every ones doing it. Any woman today who said they were saving themselves for marriage would be considered a prude, a freak even. Wouldn't be considered normal for sure. Peoples morals today are slightly more liberal than they used to be. And is that a bad thing? In most people's minds....no. And there lies the problem.

[JonyDarko]

Our morals have not evaporated.

Morals are not universally excepted things.

They differ from nation to nation, culture to culture, and house to house.

Does the world have problems? Sure it does...always has and most likely always will.

It might not seem like it, but the amount of war in the world is at an all time low. Children today have NO IDEA about diseases that claimed many lives a few generations ago, and most of the world is more tolerant than ever.

[Geckonidae]

I am sad to see what is happening to this world. Who wouldn't be. It's in a mess. And getting worse. I prefer to think back to the times when your children were safe at a young age to play In the streets with their friends. When you didn't have to worry about them seeing porno on basic cable anytime of the day. When there was no school shootings at all, nevermind on a weekly or monthly basis. When there was no ISIS. When one didn't have to nearly get molested before they can board an airplane. When the police were not so busy with bar fights at 3 am they could get to someone in trouble. When you didn't have to lock your car doors or even your homes. When kids respected their parents and answered yes mam and no sir. When kids could say a prayer before a football game.Back to when there was no GMO. Back before cell phones when parents listened to their kids instead of texting. Back to when you didn't have to return every item you buy in the stores Cuz it's rotten or broken or missing parts or was recalled. Back to when school dances had zero tolerance for alcohol. Back to when families only had one working parent because they didn't feel they had to have the newest fad and the extra income to spent on electronics, and where the mom was home when they came home from school. Back in the 20's to the 40's when the majority of families did go for church on Sunday's. Cuz back then, the world was a much better and safer place. It's only when atheism was not a bad thing, and we decided we didn't need God, that things started to crumble. And gets worse with every decade to be sure. But those days are long gone,I only wish I had been young in those days.
But I don't live in fear nor do I live a sad life. But if this is all there was to life, if I had no hope of better things to come,then I would be a hopeless cause.

You just have a twisted and ignorant world view. Most of what you say is just plain wrong. You have no facts to back any of this up, it's all just your opinion. If this is the kind of nonsense they spew at your church, you should consider staying home on Sundays. Lots of people live with this feeling that everything used to be better, everything is terrible now, and things are only going to get worse. Of course it's all because everyone doesn't follow your religion. Or maybe it's just because you pay too much attention to the bad news. Stop and think about it. You now have instant access to all the terrible news from all over the globe. 50 years ago, people didn't hear about every bad thing that happened everywhere on the planet. Now you do. School shootings happened when you were a kid, and they happened when your grandpappy was a kid, but unless it happened in your neck of the woods you were oblivious!

I doubt you'll take the time to read any of this, but lets go point for point just for the hell of it.

1) Small children playing in the streets? That's just as safe now as it ever was...that is to say, it was always a stupid idea. But parents now are now more aware of the risks. Perhaps we value children more now then parents 50 years ago.

2) Yes...technology has progressed. There are new ways to discover pornography. Back in the day, kids would just trade around porn magazines. Of course, parents wouldn't even dream of talking to their kids about sex back in the glorious 20s and 40s, and that created other problems. But whatever...porn...there's more of it and it's more accessible. Perhaps we should be more concerned about violence...but whatever.

3) School shootings have been going on for as long as we've had guns and schools. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States Don't forget about the Bath school disaster in 1927. So, if you truly want to go back to a time when there were no school shootings at all, you probably have to go back to a time when there was nothing that could be used to shoot someone.

4) Go back before ISIS, and you'll find other crazy religious groups finding reasons to kill people. Heck, go to Castlegar in the 20s and there were Christian offshoots committing terrorist acts. (Bombings and arson)

5) I'll give you this one, but you can't blame atheists for airport security. How many atheists are responsible for hijacking planes and flying them into buildings? Oh wait...religious extremists did that.

6) Geez...do you actually have any evidence that police response times are worse than they used to be, or that response times at 3AM are worse than they used to be specifically because of bar flush? Just another assumption.

7) If you fail to lock your doors, it doesn't mean someone will magically show up to break into your home. I have left my back door open or my front door unlocked on many occasions. Never had a home invasion because of it. Locking your doors is a sensible precaution, regardless of the place or time you live.

8) Teach your kids to say sir and ma'am if you like...personally I think that's a little out-dated. It's entirely possible for kids to be respectful without using those specific words.

9) Kids can still say a prayer before a football game. They can pray at school if they want to...nobody is forcing them to be godless heathens at school. Schools however, cannot lead these prayers or pick one religion over another. Nobody is going to stop some kids from praying before a football game, unless they turn it into some disruptive stunt.

10) You don't understand what GMO is do you? This isn't something new that just popped up recently.

11) Right...technology is evil...every parent is ignoring their kid and texting all day long. Can't we go back to the 20s and 40s, when kids were just window dressing? When a father could come home from work and read the paper without being bothered by his kids? Or the 60s, when parents would shush their kids so they could watch or listen to the news. Parents sure were swell back then.

12) Buy better stuff! Seriously...this one is our fault as consumers. If you only want to buy the cheapest products, you're only going to get cheap crap. That's consumer demand, and it's a trend that started in the 40s.

13) Now I'm starting to think that you're trolling. Tell me which schools don't have a zero tolerance for alcohol? There is no possible way that you could make the argument that schools now and more tolerant of drinking on school property.

I'll leave it there for now. Maybe you can provide some examples of bad things that happened that were directly caused by atheism.

[averagejoe]

Maybe you can provide some examples of bad things that happened that were directly caused by atheism.

Maybe we could start with around 100 million first......

[Geckonidae]

Maybe you need a little education on atheism....Soviet policy towards Christians 101

Persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union

Throughout the history of the Soviet Union (1922-1991), Soviet authorities suppressed and persecuted various forms of Christianity to different extents depending on the particular era. Soviet policy, based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism, made atheism the official doctrine of the Soviet Union. Marxism-Leninism has consistently advocated the control, suppression, and the elimination of religious beliefs.

The state was committed to the destruction of religion and destroyed churches, mosques and temples, ridiculed, harassed and executed religious leaders, flooded the schools and media with atheistic teachings, and generally promoted atheism as the truth that society should accept. The total number of Christian victims of Soviet state atheist policies, has been estimated to range between 12-20 million

You aren't qualified to educate anyone on atheism, it's a concept you clearly don't understand.

Atheism is not a set of beliefs. Atheism does not tell you how to behave. Atheism does not tell you to kill people. So if a political leader who happens to be an atheist pursues a policy that involves rounding up and killing groups of people, the motivation is coming from somewhere else. A leader who is only interested in increasing and maintaining their own power is likely to attack any movements that could undermine their power. Religions and churches do have a habit of becoming political, so that would motivate someone like Mao to stamp them out. Politics, power, and greed are responsible for those deaths, not a lack of belief in gods.

Killing in the name of atheism makes as much sense as killing in the name of stamp collecting. Oh wait...maybe Mao was a philatelist! Stamps are responsible for millions of deaths!

Going back to the biased bit of text you quoted. What exactly are atheistic teachings? Would those be passages from the atheist bible? Maybe the atheist gospel songs we sing when we get together on our non-existent sabbath to make sure we atheists are all preaching the same thing when we go out on our atheist missions to recruit other atheists.

[annexi]

While the motives of the Crusades were largely secular, the rallying cry was religious. There was debate at the time over whether or not the Crusades should be a secular sponsored effort or a religious one. Many people like Martin Luther argued that the Crusades would be a secular effort. Ultimately, the Pope won the argument, and the Catholic church was the main force behind the effort. In hindsight, most people today -- even Catholics -- would agree that mixing religion and politics is a bad idea.

P.S. People often make the mistake of equating atheism with secularism, but they are not the same thing. Wars motivated by atheism would fall under a religiously motivated wars since the motive is to stamp out other religions (which is what all religiously motivated wars have in common). Most wars are neither caused by religions nor atheism. Instead, they are caused by secular totalitarian ideologies like fascism and communism...

Very interesting Glacier. I think one could say wars are caused by religion or politics. Tolstoy in War and Peace tackled the question of what drives man to war.

[annexi]

Maybe you need a little education on atheism....Soviet policy towards Christians 101

Persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union

Throughout the history of the Soviet Union (1922-1991), Soviet authorities suppressed and persecuted various forms of Christianity to different extents depending on the particular era. Soviet policy, based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism, made atheism the official doctrine of the Soviet Union. Marxism-Leninism has consistently advocated the control, suppression, and the elimination of religious beliefs.

The state was committed to the destruction of religion and destroyed churches, mosques and temples, ridiculed, harassed and executed religious leaders, flooded the schools and media with atheistic teachings, and generally promoted atheism as the truth that society should accept. The total number of Christian victims of Soviet state atheist policies, has been estimated to range between 12-20 million

You aren't qualified to educate anyone on atheism, it's a concept you clearly don't understand.

Atheism is not a set of beliefs. Atheism does not tell you how to behave. Atheism does not tell you to kill people. So if a political leader who happens to be an atheist pursues a policy that involves rounding up and killing groups of people, the motivation is coming from somewhere else.

Yes, I think this might be the authoritarian politics Glacier referred to. I'd say it's closer to the truth that the Soviet's authoritarianism killed Christians than to say atheism killed them.

[averagejoe]

Maybe try and read what I posted, instead of some liberal agenda BS your pushing....

[annexi]

Maybe try and read what I posted, instead of some liberal agenda BS your pushing....

To whom is your comment addressed?

[averagejoe]

Maybe try and read what I posted, instead of some liberal agenda BS your pushing....

To whom is your comment addressed?

Who do you think?

[Geckonidae]

Who do you think?

That's some first class trolling right there. No attempt to argue specific points, just a general statement that someone didn't read what you posted. You don't even identify which person because you want to agitate as many people as possible. What you lack in debate skills you more than make up for in trolling and crazy talk.

[averagejoe]

What you lack in debate skills you more than make up for in trolling and crazy talk.

Well lets try my debating skills.....

Let's start with this comment of yours that brushes off atheists attempt to kill all or most Christians in the Soviet.

Geckonidae wrote: I'd say it's closer to the truth that the Soviet's authoritarianism killed Christians than to say atheism killed them.