The Atheists' Conundrum

[pepsilover]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=yo ... &FORM=VIRE

No guys, you are never gonna be as big as Jesus. Deal:)

[cliffy1]

The Beatles were bigger than Jesus. So was Pink Floyd.

[pepsilover]

The Beatles were bigger than Jesus. So was Pink Floyd.

No. John Lennon took that back.

[cliffy1]

No. John Lennon took that back.

You have a link to that? Even if he did, it was still true.

[Farmmaa]

With only 31% of the world's population believing in Jesus - I don't think he's as big as you think he is.

[Donald G]

I might be a bit slow but I do not understand how any of the comments relate to an atheist's conundrum ??

Is the poser identifying how atheists should view The Beatles in view of John Lennon's comment ??

[cliffy1]

I might be a bit slow but I do not understand how any of the comments relate to an atheist's conundrum ??

Is the poser identifying how atheists should view The Beatles in view of John Lennon's comment ??

It is a troll thread, pure and simple. Pepsi and Healthy have been trolling each other for weeks, which, seems to indicate a conundrum on both sides. Would be nice if people could just have a conversation without getting their egos all bent out of shape.

[pepsilover]

I might be a bit slow but I do not understand how any of the comments relate to an atheist's conundrum ??

Is the poser identifying how atheists should view The Beatles in view of John Lennon's comment ??

John Lennon was a strawman not brought up by me, the person who posted the thread.

Did you listen to the lyrics of the song in post #1? It is a take on the human psyche, the ego of man, which is all the atheist has, their own ego. SUCH a conundrum indeed.

[pepsilover]

You have a link to that? Even if he did, it was still true.

LOL anybody who is a true Beatles fan knows that. I don't need a link. But your slip is showing:)

[JLives]

John Lennon was a strawman not brought up by me, the person who posted the thread.

Did you listen to the lyrics of the song in post #1? It is a take on the human psyche, the ego of man, which is all the atheist has, their own ego. SUCH a conundrum indeed.

What do you mean an ego is all an atheist has? Are you one of those people who think atheists don't have a moral code?

[pepsilover]

What do you mean an ego is all an atheist has? Are you one of those people who think atheists don't have a moral code?

LOL that's quite an interpretation. But no, I am not 'one of those' (who are 'those' by the way? Sounds like you have people pretty compartmentalized).

What I mean is that atheists are like He-Man, they consider themselves the "Masters of Their Universe", which speaks to HUGE ego. But alas, 'never gonna be as big as Jesus'. Not even the 'big rock stars'.

Since they don't believe in any kind of higher power, they make all their own rules, and believe that they decide their destiny in ALL things (unless it's a BAD thing, then they like to blame the non-existent God it seems). Only somebody with an out of control ego would believe that they CONTROL everything in their world. No fate, no '*bleep* happens', no 'weird coincidence', NAH none of that 'cause 'YOU GOT THE POWER'. Yeah. EGO. Easing God Out.

If I'm wrong, tell me what you believe, if not totally in yourself.

[JLives]

LOL that's quite an interpretation. But no, I am not 'one of those' (who are 'those' by the way? Sounds like you have people pretty compartmentalized).

What I mean is that atheists are like He-Man, they consider themselves the "Masters of Their Universe", which speaks to HUGE ego. But alas, 'never gonna be as big as Jesus'. Not even the 'big rock stars'.

Since they don't believe in any kind of higher power, they make all their own rules, and believe that they decide their destiny in ALL things (unless it's a BAD thing, then they like to blame the non-existent God it seems). Only somebody with an out of control ego would believe that they CONTROL everything in their world. No fate, no '*bleep* happens', no 'weird coincidence', NAH none of that 'cause 'YOU GOT THE POWER'. Yeah. EGO. Easing God Out.

If I'm wrong, tell me what you believe, if not totally in yourself.

Our moral code is derived from hundreds of generations of memetic evolution. We believe murder, theft, rape, assault and those sorts of things are wrong because it causes harm to another person. I would guess if you were not a believer you wouldn't go right out and murder someone. Because we know deep in our bones, it is wrong. We knew this before religion was ever invented. Now if you think that you would go out and murder if wasn't for your belief in the bible, than I would be extremely alarmed.

I follow two rules in life. So long as it doesn't harm others, do what you will. And treat others as you would have them treat you. It pretty much covers everything. So, no, I don't make my own rules. I live by the ones society deems important to abide by.

I don't believe in destiny, or that a plan is laid out for my life, but other atheists may. As has been said before, the only thing atheists have in common is lack of belief in a deity. Outside of that we come in all different stripes. I have met atheists who believe in ghosts or souls for example. I work hard to create a good life (is this what you are calling control?) but sometimes life throws you curve balls that you just have to roll with. So, no, it's not really about control either.

I accept that I am part of something. I am part of the universe and I really feel connected to something greater than myself. There is literally the material from the death of stars inside of our bodies. And when our bodies die our energy goes back into the universe to take another form but it never goes away completely. I find that truly amazing and wonderful.

I'm not a person who feels I know all of the answers. I am a person who sees an answer and finds more questions. I was raised German Mennonite and my mother's side was Protestant so I have had religious influence in my life but it was the asking of questions in my teen years that didn't have evidence to back up the answers given that led me to atheism. Should evidence for a deity turn up, I will be first to accept it as true. In the meantime, I can not accept the possibility of a god existing.

[cliffy1]

LOL anybody who is a true Beatles fan knows that. I don't need a link. But your slip is showing:)

No slip. I wasn't quoting John, I was making a statement.
If you need a god to be a good person then maybe you should be the one looking in a mirror. We are born with a moral code. We don't need religion to give us one, unless you are a sociopath, then maybe.

[whatwhat]

Our moral code is derived from hundreds of generations of memetic evolution. We believe murder, theft, rape, assault and those sorts of things are wrong because it causes harm to another person. I would guess if you were not a believer you wouldn't go right out and murder someone. Because we know deep in our bones, it is wrong. We knew this before religion was ever invented. Now if you think that you would go out and murder if wasn't for your belief in the bible, than I would be extremely alarmed.

I follow two rules in life. So long as it doesn't harm others, do what you will. And treat others as you would have them treat you. It pretty much covers everything. So, no, I don't make my own rules. I live by the ones society deems important to abide by.

I don't believe in destiny, or that a plan is laid out for my life, but other atheists may. As has been said before, the only thing atheists have in common is lack of belief in a deity. Outside of that we come in all different stripes. I have met atheists who believe in ghosts or souls for example. I work hard to create a good life (is this what you are calling control?) but sometimes life throws you curve balls that you just have to roll with. So, no, it's not really about control either.

I accept that I am part of something. I am part of the universe and I really feel connected to something greater than myself. There is literally the material from the death of stars inside of our bodies. And when our bodies die our energy goes back into the universe to take another form but it never goes away completely. I find that truly amazing and wonderful.

I'm not a person who feels I know all of the answers. I am a person who sees an answer and finds more questions. I was raised German Mennonite and my mother's side was Protestant so I have had religious influence in my life but it was the asking of questions in my teen years that didn't have evidence to back up the answers given that led me to atheism. Should evidence for a deity turn up, I will be first to accept it as true. In the meantime, I can not accept the possibility of a god existing.

Really well written Jlives.

For some reason our society loves to stereotype all different groups of people. Of course there are extreme Atheists, as there are extreme Christians and Muslims. But to hold the actions of a few to the whole group is ignorant.

I have met hateful Atheists, but I have also met very open-minded ones. I have met very hateful Christians, and also met very open-minded ones. That is just how society and people work. I would never treat every single Christian I meet on the base-line of the few hateful ones out there.

[pepsilover]

Our moral code is derived from hundreds of generations of memetic evolution. We believe murder, theft, rape, assault and those sorts of things are wrong because it causes harm to another person. I would guess if you were not a believer you wouldn't go right out and murder someone. Because we know deep in our bones, it is wrong. We knew this before religion was ever invented. Now if you think that you would go out and murder if wasn't for your belief in the bible, than I would be extremely alarmed.

I follow two rules in life. So long as it doesn't harm others, do what you will. And treat others as you would have them treat you. It pretty much covers everything. So, no, I don't make my own rules. I live by the ones society deems important to abide by.

I don't believe in destiny, or that a plan is laid out for my life, but other atheists may. As has been said before, the only thing atheists have in common is lack of belief in a deity. Outside of that we come in all different stripes. I have met atheists who believe in ghosts or souls for example. I work hard to create a good life (is this what you are calling control?) but sometimes life throws you curve balls that you just have to roll with. So, no, it's not really about control either.

I accept that I am part of something. I am part of the universe and I really feel connected to something greater than myself. There is literally the material from the death of stars inside of our bodies. And when our bodies die our energy goes back into the universe to take another form but it never goes away completely. I find that truly amazing and wonderful.

I'm not a person who feels I know all of the answers. I am a person who sees an answer and finds more questions. I was raised German Mennonite and my mother's side was Protestant so I have had religious influence in my life but it was the asking of questions in my teen years that didn't have evidence to back up the answers given that led me to atheism. Should evidence for a deity turn up, I will be first to accept it as true. In the meantime, I can not accept the possibility of a god existing.

Thank you for that honest and well-thought out reply. Something I can actually discuss with somebody. Let me say first off that I obviously do not agree with your beliefs but I will not call them myths, stupid, fantasies, or imply that you are a *bleep*. Because I know what it's like to have those kinds of names thrown around towards me and mine, and the people I love (including God, whom I love). I know I do not deserve that, and I know that you don't either.

Back to your original query and what I meant. I think this is the true crux of what I don't respect about atheism, is that there seems to be this element of 'I know my own destiny', 'I'm big enough and strong enough to handle anything and everything that comes my way, I DON'T NEED to believe in a god which is a CRUTCH for people" (this is the attitude that comes across from many, generally younger people but not always), when you leave God (or any belief in a higher power) out of the equation. For me it reeks of arrogance to think that we always are in control of what will happen in our lives. Trust me, we don't. I know you get that, but some don't seem to from what I have read.

Who are you (collective 'you') to say Christians are using crutches or are not as strong as you are? I find that extremely arrogant and ignorant. Because it is. After reading your post, I do not believe you are like that, but there are a few in here who I do think are like that.

It boils down to two words 'destiny' and 'moral code', ok three words lol. Glad you explained that not all atheists believe the same because that is part of the confusion from where I sit. You believe the moral code came via evolution, another atheist believes we are 'born with it' (which I will address separately to him/her).

I believe that the moral code we live with today came from religion, from the Bible. The 'Golden Rule' of society that you speak of had its origins in biblical scripture. This is historical fact from where I sit. Don't you ever wonder where it came from, how it started? Or do you believe we are born with a good moral code, genetically? I don't believe that because I see things on the internet every day that shock me and make me ask 'How can human beings be this way? How can they do those things'? Some are just plain evil. Ted Bundy, Clifford Olsen, people such as that.

I believe that the moral code that has been generated throughout the generations came from scripture. I mean it's all there in scripture. Prior to 5,000 years ago people were pretty barbaric, well they still are, but it was everyday living back in those days.

People have often accused me, because I am a Christian, of being 'born into it'. I just laugh at this because first of all it isn't true, and second of all I have no idea what being 'born into being a Christian' means. I came to Christ on my own, with my own study, my own faith, my own experiences. I have found Christ to be faithful. I have experienced miracles in my life, at least miracles in my opinion. I have prayed for things and had those prayers answered, in God's time ALWAYS not in my time NEVER! Frustrating, yes. But I keep the faith. And I don't allow anybody to try and take that away from me whether it is via bullying on an internet board or otherwise. It's just who I am.

My experience of atheists in real life is that they just don't care what anybody else believes but they don't target Christians and bash them. They might make a joke about it once or twice then let it go. I just don't 'get' where all this bashing of Christians comes from, and I find it rather frightening when you look at the shape the world is in today. We idolize movie stars, sports stars, cars, drugs and alcohol, each other. Wow, the list could go on and on. I find those kinds of idolatry totally meaningless.

I've also studied the Bible and researched a lot. I am a skeptic by nature, I do not 'sell' easily. I think that s/b obvious by now to anybody who reads my posts. My conclusions are that God is real, VERY real. And my faith is steadfast.