So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
Farmmaa
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by Farmmaa »

zzontar wrote:
I figure if atheists can have experiences with ghosts even though there is no proof they exist nor even a theory of how they came to be, it would seem childless to find fault in someone who has experiences with "God."


To add to the previous answer - not believing in god isn't all about not having proof of it's existence.
It's certainly one of the reasons, but there are as many reasons as there are people who do not believe.
whatwhat
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by whatwhat »

OREZ wrote:I agree with you to some degree but you must realize that you are in the minority among atheists therefore asking how you could believe in "ghosts" without any proof and yet completely reject the idea of God is a reasonable question in my opinion.

It begs the question, do you in fact completely reject the possibility of the existence of God? And if so, why? I know you stated earlier that atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in God but to be honest, to a lot of people it often seems to be more of an assertion that God doesn't exist. In other words, a belief that God does not exist.

(Forgive me if you're already answered this question, I haven't read the entire thread)


I personally have no idea if I am in the minority, as I don't know all atheists and their beliefs. But most atheists I know are still spiritual people, they just believe in other things. So in my experience, I would be in the majority. But isn't that the funny thing about correlation.

Do I completely reject the possibility of a God? No, I don't. I have no idea what there is beyond our existence, but believing in God and religion doesn't fit in my life right now (it may later in life). I try my best to live my life I see best (this included pre-martial sex, living in sin, supporting gay marriage etc), and that doesn't harms others to the best of my ability. But I do those things not for God but for the goodness of others. One day when I die, if I find out that God exists I hope he/she can see I lived a good life, and did good.

Now this is just MY PERSONAL belief. Other atheists may have similar beliefs, or completely different ones. I can't expect all atheists to have the exact same beliefs as I.
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cliffy1
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by cliffy1 »

zzontar wrote:^^ Cliffy, I noticed you failed to respond to my question on another atheist thread about how atheists can explain how believing in ghosts is accepted. If you don't want us to talk to ourselves perhaps responding to posts is a good first step.

How would I know? I'm not an atheist. How many times do I have to tell you guys? I just don't believe in the god of the bible.
Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck milk from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long.
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zzontar
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by zzontar »

cliffy1 wrote:How would I know? I'm not an atheist. How many times do I have to tell you guys? I just don't believe in the god of the bible.


If someone writes about the god you believe in and twists the facts, then does it make whatever god you believe in any less?
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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cliffy1
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by cliffy1 »

zzontar wrote:If someone writes about the god you believe in and twists the facts, then does it make whatever god you believe in any less?

What I believe is my business. I really don't care what others believe or what they believe about my beliefs. I am secure in my knowledge and what others think of me and my beliefs is none of my business. I know what I know, that's it. What I object to are those who feel they are obligated to force everybody else to believe as they do through legislation. That goes for those who want to instill sharia law, stop gay marriages and abortion. It is really not cool to show up at abortion clinics and harass emotionally distraught women for seeking help. Or shooting abortion doctors or any number of interferences in other people's lives.

I have spent hundreds of hours talking to people of many different faiths and have met very few who understood the teachings and lived accordingly. Most tried to tell me that I was a minion of Satan and condemned me to an eternity of hell. It doesn't bother me, but when I see them doing that to others who may not be as secure in their faith, I get rather irate. I can sympathies with atheist. I know what they've been put through by the self righteous and, yes, some of them can be just as self righteous but sometimes I think it is a matter of self defense.
Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck milk from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long.
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zzontar
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by zzontar »

cliffy1 wrote:What I believe is my business. I really don't care what others believe or what they believe about my beliefs.


If you didn't frequently post in this forum that would be so much easier to believe.
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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maryjane48
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by maryjane48 »

Glacier wrote:Really weird title choice.

Bangladesh is a Hell Hole these days. India has built the world's longest wall - a double walled 3,000 km barb wire fence - because they are tired of the Islamists coming and killing Hindus. By your title you seem to be implying that because Islamists don't like atheists they someone like Christians. The Christian population in the Middle East has gone from 20% 100 years to 4% today because of peace and love? You and your buddy HealthySkeptic (if you aren't the same person) are really hard to follow.

Everybody knows that Islamists don't take kindly to atheists. Everybody knows that atheists technically don't get to live as dhimmis under the Shariah because they get the same punishment as apostates - death. Everybody knows that the dice are loaded. Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed. Everybody knows that the war is over. Everybody knows the good guys lost. Everybody knows the fight was fixed. The poor stay poor, the rich get rich. That's how it goes. Everybody knows.

*removed*
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cliffy1
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by cliffy1 »

one truth.jpg


Buddha was not a Buddhist. Jesus was not a Christian. Muhammad was not a Muslim. Krishna was not a Hindu. Rumi was not a Sufi mystic.They were #teachers who taught love. #Love was their religion.
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Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck milk from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long.
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sobrohusfat
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by sobrohusfat »

i never heard of Buddha - Jesus - Krishna - Rumi beheading their "enemies" and raping their daughters.

"...one of these things is not like the others..." there's another song for ya.
The adventure continues...

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Farmmaa
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by Farmmaa »

sobrohusfat wrote:i never heard of Buddha - Jesus - Krishna - Rumi beheading their "enemies" and raping their daughters.

"...one of these things is not like the others..." there's another song for ya.


Nope, no genocide or mass murders in biblical history...no way - only Muslims do that crap.

Oh...wait....oops


Exodus 12:29

29 At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.


Chronicles 13:15-18

15 and the men of Judah raised the battle cry. At the sound of their battle cry, God routed Jeroboam and all Israel before Abijah and Judah. 16 The Israelites fled before Judah, and God delivered them into their hands. 17 Abijah and his troops inflicted heavy losses on them, so that there were five hundred thousand casualties among Israel’s able men. 18 The Israelites were subdued on that occasion, and the people of Judah were victorious because they relied on the Lord, the God of their ancestors.

Numbers 16:41-49

41 The next day the whole Israelite community grumbled against Moses and Aaron. “You have killed the Lord’s people,” they said.

42 But when the assembly gathered in opposition to Moses and Aaron and turned toward the tent of meeting, suddenly the cloud covered it and the glory of the Lord appeared. 43 Then Moses and Aaron went to the front of the tent of meeting, 44 and the Lord said to Moses, 45 “Get away from this assembly so I can put an end to them at once.” And they fell facedown.

46 Then Moses said to Aaron, “Take your censer and put incense in it, along with burning coals from the altar, and hurry to the assembly to make atonement for them. Wrath has come out from the Lord; the plague has started.” 47 So Aaron did as Moses said, and ran into the midst of the assembly. The plague had already started among the people, but Aaron offered the incense and made atonement for them. 48 He stood between the living and the dead, and the plague stopped. 49 But 14,700 people died from the plague, in addition to those who had died because of Korah.


Genesis 7:21-23

21 Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.


Matthew 24:37-42

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.


Deuteronomy 2:32-35

32 When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, 33 the Lord our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed[a] them—men, women and children. We left no survivors. 35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves.


Should we continue ? there's plenty more...
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Glacier
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by Glacier »

Farmmaa wrote:Nope, no genocide or mass murders in biblical history...no way - only Muslims do that crap.

Oh...wait....oops

Ah yes, another Muslim apologist. You'd love Anjem Choudary and Reza Aslan.

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maryjane48
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by maryjane48 »

sobrohusfat wrote:Read your title. By implying that because others also die at the hands of islamic nut-jobs, there's no need to mention the very real and current bloody persecution of Christians, you continue to display your contempt.

Gays and atheists are killed ...and... Christian communities get raped and slaughtered - why must one negate the disgusting reality of the other in your head. It's just weird.

Maybe if they were only being forced to either bake cakes celebrating Ramadan or go out of business it'd be just a "theory"...

and innocent palestinian kids get killed by jews so your right.
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Glacier
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by Glacier »

Nah, I'm just giving Farmmaa a hard time for not being able to read things in context. Here's another that explains the context and the subtle differences that most atheists don't seem to be able to understand.

"No one has the right to apologize for something they did not do, and no one has the right to accept an apology if the wrong was not done to them."
- Douglas Murray
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zzontar
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by zzontar »

Farmmaa wrote:
21 Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.


[/quote]

Ironic how you'll say the bible isn't factual history, and then use something like this to "prove" how cruel Christianity is, and compare something that can't be true to the horrors caused by Muslims which are true.
They say you can't believe everything they say.
Farmmaa
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Re: So much for the whole Christian persecution theory..

Post by Farmmaa »

zzontar wrote:
Ironic how you'll say the bible isn't factual history, and then use something like this to "prove" how cruel Christianity is, and compare something that can't be true to the horrors caused by Muslims which are true.


I did not include this to prove it is true...simply that those who believe in the bible seem to be able to overlook the countless acts of genocide contained in their religion's history.

A Muslim sympathizer ? Really ?
Did I actually defend the actions of any religious genocide ??????
Did I deny or defend that beheadings occur ??
I don't recall saying anything of the sort.

I do however find it ridiculous that you are all so very quick to dismiss any and all atrocities related to the history of Christianity because there are many.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Last edited by ferri on May 9th, 2016, 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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