Atheists in the Okanagan.

[Hmmm]

Farmmaa. Sorry for your loss. I'm sure you are a caring person, but one that can give no hope to a dying friend or parent. You had a good kick at the can, we all loved you and you'll be missed, bye forever. That wouldn't provide much comfort to many people in my opinion. As I look at the world and learn from history, I see where its really heading and its not good. We will not fix the big issues before we destroy the planet and millions more are killed. I have zero faith in mankind to accomplish it. I do have a strong belief that God will soon intervene in our affairs and he will fix things. That may be a false hope to you, but millions believe it and it does provide real comfort to many in their last days, or when they are contemplating the sad state of this planet and man. When you combine that belief with the feeling of Gods spirit infusing you and the sense of calm, joy, peace and love that is part of it, even in the hardest trials, then yes, it gives me and others a real hope. i can't imagine facing these things with the belief that out of thin air, purely by chance with no direction, everything came into existence. That to me would be hopeless. Caring people that beleive that are hopeless, as they have to trust mankind to solve these things and there is no help for the dying.

Anyway, I'm sure this subject will just get more cloudy if it continues and we will both misunderstand one another. Again, sorry for all you have been through, and my trying to explain my point may have been misdirected. I'm sure in person we could understand what we each mean, but such is life in the CN forums.

[Gixxer]

Imagine a world where the religious wack jobs didnt spend so much of their time trying to convince others that their god is the right and only god.

Better yet imagine if you will a world where no religion existed at all.

[averagejoe]

Better yet imagine if you will a world where no religion existed at all.

Yes it was called the Soviet Union and we all know what happened there with uncle Joe....

10's of millions of dead Christians.

[Farmmaa]

HHMMM... Here's what you need to try to understand - because I honestly do understand the need that people have to believe in god and heaven and a better place to go...I really do get it.
But, you need to understand that we don't all need that - we really don't.
Yes, we do accept that we have but one shot at life...and you do your best to be kind and loving to your fellow humans, the earth and all it's inhabitants. You do your best to enjoy every minute, live life to the fullest and find all that is beautiful in this world.
And, we accept that our life will end, just as all life forms on earth must end. We will return to the earth from which we came...and that's OK. It's really OK. We don't all need the comfort of an afterlife.
You do. I don't.
That doesn't make me hopeless...I don't see life as hopeless at all. I don't see our earth in the negative light that you do...I see beauty all around me.
I don't see humanity as a lost cause.
I see Syrian refugees gathering what small amounts of money they have to put on a huge banquet for all of the evacuees from Fort mac. I see the Sikh community in BC donate five semis full of brand new items...over one million dollars worth...to the evacuees.
Not hopeless at all.

Please understand that millions also do not need the kind of comfort and peace that you find in god. We find it in nature, in the people we love, in animals and the ocean and hiking to the top of a mountain.
Death is a natural part of life and some of us just accept that fact without fear....and without the need to believe in some sort of eternal life somewhere else.

It seems to me that your view of life and the world is a whole lot more hopeless than mine...without religion or god.

BTW - My mother was a Christian. She believed in god, she believed in heaven. She believed that she would be reunited with her parents. It brought her no hope and no comfort. It did not make her last days , hours or minutes any more peaceful. It did not make dying any easier.
All she cared about was that her family was there with her. That is what brought a small bit of comfort. Not god. Not religion, not heaven. People. Loved ones....just being there for her.

[Gixxer]

Yes it was called the Soviet Union and we all know what happened there with uncle Joe....

10's of millions of dead Christians.

A fraction of all the deaths caused by religion.

Here's a list of religiously motivated wars and genocides and their death tolls.

The Crusades: 6,000,000
Thirty Years War: 11,500,000
French Wars of Religion: 4,000,000
Second Sudanese Civil War: 2,000,000
Lebanese Civil War: 250,000
Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
Armenian Genocide: 1,500,000
Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
Eighty Years' War: 1,000,000
Nigerian Civil War: 1,000,000
Great Peasants' Revolt: 250,000
First Sudanese Civil War: 1,000,000
Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
Islamic Terrorism Since 2000: 150,000
Iraq War: 500,000
US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
Aztec Human Sacrifice: 80,000
AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
Spanish Inquisition: 5,000


TOTAL: 195,035,000 deaths in the name of religion.

[zzontar]

I doubt, for example, that all the Nazis were basing what they did on their religion as opposed to be scared sh**less by Hitler. If a bunch of people do a bunch of bad things and say it's in the name of Gixxer, does that make Gixxer the culprit?

[Gixxer]

I doubt, for example, that all the Nazis were basing what they did on their religion as opposed to be scared sh**less by Hitler. If a bunch of people do a bunch of bad things and say it's in the name of Gixxer, does that make Gixxer the culprit?

Whats your point?

You cant denie that many have died or been murdered in the name of religion.

[zzontar]

Whats your point?

You cant denie that many have died or been murdered in the name of religion.

Does that make religion the culprit, the same way if someone murdered someone in the name of Gixxer it would be your fault?

[Gixxer]

Does that make religion the culprit, the same way if someone murdered someone in the name of Gixxer it would be your fault?

Gixxer isnt a religion so your question is pointless.

[zzontar]

Seems you missed the point, but it's more likely you got it and don't want to acknowledge it.

[Gixxer]

Seems you missed the point, but it's more likely you got it and don't want to acknowledge it.

There's no point. Youre trying to deflect and make excuses for the fact that many people have been killed in the name of religion.

[zzontar]

There's no point. Youre trying to deflect and make excuses for the fact that many people have been killed in the name of religion.

George Bush said God told him to invade Iraq. Do you think he said that to get more support, or do you think he actually heard God say that, and if so, do you consider the invasion of Iraq to be a religious war?

[OREZ]

You cant denie that many have died or been murdered in the name of religion.

You can't deny that science has provided the means to cause death and horrific suffering to millions of people. Are all scientists guilty? Should we get rid of science?

[Gixxer]

You can't deny that science has provided the means to cause death and horrific suffering to millions of people. Are all scientists guilty? Should we get rid of science?

Believers are hilarious.

You cant accept the fact that hundreds of millions of people have died in the name of religion.

Yes science has provided the means to cause death. Its happening right now as we speak. Is it safe to say that believers are using this very science to kill in the name of their religion?

[OREZ]

Okay, so you're going to go on missing the obvious point no matter how someone puts it to you. Fine.