Human / Religious origins

[averagejoe]

Oh now your being silly......Read the Bible. Give some scriptures....

I personally think there were people here. Just not God's servant people...the Israelite's!

You are telling us that people showed up out of nowhere and built cities and empires. Who's silly now ?

Go forth and multiply!

[SmokeOnTheWater]

Go forth and multiply!

Adam and Eve ... 6000 BC.
Mesopotamia ... 6000 BC.
How many years does it take to go from 2 to hundreds of thousands ?

[averagejoe]

From your website you posted...

http://www.bjreview.com.cn/print/txt/20 ... 636559.htm

The Timeline of Chinese History in the authoritative Cihai dictionary identifies 841 B.C. as the start of recorded Chinese history. However, A Chronology of Chinese and Foreign History, compiled by Chinese historian Jian Bozan (1898-1968) in 1961, defines it as 2297 B.C. when the legendary Emperor Yao ascended to his throne as the start of Chinese civilization. Both versions allude to the fact that China has the shortest past among the major ancient civilizations of the world. Could that be true?

That's not as old as the Mesopotamia civilization.

We have gone over the Indian Sub continent already. Go back and read my answer a few pages ago on that one...your dates are all wrong.

And as for the Mesoamerican civilization! 21,000 years...where are the zillions of hunters and gathers? What do they look like?
What happened to them? How do you know they existed? I have seen no proof of archaeological sites? Just a bunch of guessing on the secular side of things...

[averagejoe]

Go forth and multiply!

Adam and Eve ... 6000 BC.
Mesopotamia ... 6000 BC.
How many years does it take to go from 2 to hundreds of thousands ?

Go back and read my answer....

[looking4one]

c. 8000 BC—World population: 5,000,000.[1]

c. 5100 BC: Temples founded in South Mesopotamia.

QUESTION: What is the oldest known copy of the Bible?

ANSWER:

The oldest known copy of the Bible (complete Bible) in the world is the Codex Sinaiticus, dating from the 3rd or 4th century A.D. The Codex, while not only translating Hebrew and Greek manuscripts into all Greek, documents the dramatic shift of preserving texts in a bound book form rather than the tradition of writing on scrolls. There is speculation this book was written in Egypt.

When the Emperor Constantine of the Eastern Empire (Greece) adopted Christianity, he commissioned the compilation of Greek versions of the principal Jewish and Christian scriptures. Although history records 50 manuscripts were written under the guidance of Eusebius, we're not totally sure this is one of those copies.

MADRID, Spain — A small piece of jawbone unearthed in a cave in Spain is the oldest known fossil of a human ancestor in Europe and suggests that people lived on the continent much earlier than previously believed, scientists say.
The researchers said the fossil found last year at Atapuerca in northern Spain, along with stone tools and animal bones, is up to 1.3 million years old. That would be 500,000 years older than remains from a 1997 find that prompted the naming of a new species: *bleep* antecessor, or Pioneer Man, possibly a common ancestor to Neanderthals and modern humans.

[Farmmaa]

That's not as old as the Mesopotamia civilization.

We have gone over the Indian Sub continent already. Go back and read my answer a few pages ago on that one...your dates are all wrong.

And as for the Mesoamerican civilization! 21,000 years...where are the zillions of hunters and gathers? What do they look like?
What happened to them? How do you know they existed? I have seen no proof of archaeological sites? Just a bunch of guessing on the secular side of things...

Right, everyone's dates are wrong, because they do not correspond to Joe's beliefs.
The only correct dates are those Joe has supplied - because...the bible says so. To prove this is true, read the bible.

There are mountains of evidence to prove ancient sites existed tens of thousands of years ago. Science is not about guessing....these are not theories....they are facts.
Humans from 21,000 years ago looked like - humans.
Your question about what happened to ancient civilizations has been answered ten fold...you just choose to dismiss anything that doesn't agree with your narrow view of the world.

[averagejoe]

c. 8000 BC—World population: 5,000,000.[1]

c. 5100 BC: Temples founded in South Mesopotamia.
QUESTION: What is the oldest known copy of the Bible?

ANSWER:
The oldest known copy of the Bible (complete Bible) in the world is the Codex Sinaiticus, dating from the 3rd or 4th century A.D. The Codex, while not only translating Hebrew and Greek manuscripts into all Greek, documents the dramatic shift of preserving texts in a bound book form rather than the tradition of writing on scrolls. There is speculation this book was written in Egypt.

The stories and history of the Bible were compiled for centuries by the Levi Tribe of the Israelite's. They were the Holy Tribe of the Israelite's and were in charge of recording everything. So it took time especially after Jesus the Christ to compile the continence of the Bible....

MADRID, Spain — A small piece of jawbone unearthed in a cave in Spain is the oldest known fossil of a human ancestor in Europe and suggests that people lived on the continent much earlier than previously believed, scientists say.
The researchers said the fossil found last year at Atapuerca in northern Spain, along with stone tools and animal bones, is up to 1.3 million years old. That would be 500,000 years older than remains from a 1997 find that prompted the naming of a new species: *bleep* antecessor, or Pioneer Man, possibly a common ancestor to Neanderthals and modern humans.

Where is the rest of the body? Where are these peoples village? Please show this site where they found this stuff.....The only people that lived in Europe before the main migration of the Celts in 650 B.C. were the Picts of England and the Basques of Spain who migrated from Lake Van and guess where Lake Van is....Mesopotamia.

[looking4one]

A little something about the Mesopotamia civilization:

Edited for length, source cited below.

Government of Ancient Mesopotamia

One of the most remarkable things about Mesopotamian civilization is that here, right at the dawn of recorded history, we find states which organized their populations more tightly than all but a very few in subsequent ages. In truth, this situation is the result of gradual steps taken over hundreds, even thousands, of years, and only appears to arrive fully formed as written records begin to shed their light; however, the sheer scope of the state's control over the lives of the people is astonishing.

Priests and bureaucrats

In early Sumerian cities, the temple stood at the very centre of public life, both political and religious. The god of the city was held to own the city; in practice, this translated into the temple controlling the productive land of the city-state. There are indications that the common people (who were also owned by the god, an therefore under the temple's authority) brought what they grew to the temple, and received back what they needed to live on from the priests. If this is correct, then we have here as near a communist state as we ever get in history.

Religion

Mesopotamian religion was polytheistic; more than 2,000 gods and goddesses have been identified. The chief of the gods varied from period to period. For the Sumerians, it was Enlin, the Sky God. The Babylonians worshipped Marduk above all others, and Ashur was the supreme god of the Assyrians. Other notable gods and goddesses were Ishtar, goddess of love and fertility, Tiamat, god of the sea and chaos, and Sin, the moon god.

http://www.timemaps.com/civilization/An ... a#overview

[averagejoe]

Right, everyone's dates are wrong, because they do not correspond to Joe's beliefs.
The only correct dates are those Joe has supplied - because...the bible says so. To prove this is true, read the bible.

Or read some actual history...not secular history.

There are mountains of evidence to prove ancient sites existed tens of thousands of years ago. Science is not about guessing....these are not theories....they are facts.

Well if there are mountains of evidence of proven sites. Show me. I have already showed your wrong in Scandinavia. I asked to go to other parts of the world.....just because your college professor says so. Doesn't mean he's right. Go try and find any ancient history of the European peoples and there massive migration into Europe. The German's call it
"The great Wandering!" Good luck!

Humans from 21,000 years ago looked like - humans.
Your question about what happened to ancient civilizations has been answered ten fold...you just choose to dismiss anything that doesn't agree with your narrow view of the world.

Narrow minded....

[averagejoe]

Thanks for posting this website again and for proving me right....

http://www.timemaps.com/civilization/An ... a#overview

[looking4one]

On one hand we have the JKV:

Genesis 5King James Version (KJV)

5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:

7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:

8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.

9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:

10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:

11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.

12 And Cainan lived seventy years and begat Mahalaleel:

13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:

14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.

15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:

16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:

17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.

18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:

19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.

21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:

22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech.

26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:

27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:

29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed.

30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:

31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.

32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

And then we have the LDS version:

In the Garden of Eden[edit]
Adam and Eve's bodies were created by God the Father and Jesus Christ and were placed in the Garden of Eden,[1] which Joseph Smith taught was located in or near Jackson County, Missouri.[7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14] When they were created, their bodies were not mortal and they could not die or have children, and they did not know right from wrong.[1]

God commanded Adam and Eve to have children, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and have dominion over … every living thing that moveth upon the earth".[1][15] God told them they could eat of any tree in the garden except for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and that the day they ate the fruit from that tree they would die.[1][16] Adam was made “lord or governor of all things on earth, and at the same time [enjoyed] communion … with his Maker, without a veil [sic] to separate between.”[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve_(LDS_Church)

[Farmmaa]

Or read some actual history...not secular history.



Well if there are mountains of evidence of proven sites. Show me. I have already showed your wrong in Scandinavia. I asked to go to other parts of the world.....just because your college professor says so. Doesn't mean he's right. Go try and find any ancient history of the European peoples and there massive migration into Europe. The German's call it
"The great Wandering!" Good luck!

Ironic, isn't it...someone who thinks that Christian based history - a religion which is only 2,000 years old, trumps all other history.
I prefer to follow science and evidence based history...which is neither secular or religious, but based on more than just stories.

You did nothing to show me wrong about Scandinavia. Stating that you had a phone conversation with someone at a university in Stockholm ( a secular university ) and they agreed with you...is NOT proof of anything.

Your biblical notion that humans just suddenly appeared 7,000 years ago and built a great civilization is absurd at best.
There are ruins around the world that are twice as old as that.

BTW - I've never stated that human civilization began in what is now Europe.

[looking4one]

At best, we’ve all read a bad translation—a translation of translations of translations of hand-copied copies of copies of copies of copies, and on and on, hundreds of times. About 400 years passed between the writing of the first Christian manuscripts and their compilation into the New Testament. (That’s the same amount of time between the arrival of the Pilgrims on the Mayflower and today.) The first books of the Old Testament were written 1,000 years before that. In other words, some 1,500 years passed between the day the first biblical author put stick to clay and when the books that would become the New Testament were chosen. There were no printing presses beforehand or until 1,000 years later. There were no vacuum-sealed technologies to preserve paper for centuries. Dried clay broke, papyrus and parchment crumbled away, primitive inks faded.

[averagejoe]

On one hand we have the JKV:

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

And then we have the LDS version:
In the Garden of Eden[edit]
Adam and Eve's bodies were created by God the Father and Jesus Christ and were placed in the Garden of Eden,[1] which Joseph Smith taught was located in or near Jackson County, Missouri.[7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14] When they were created, their bodies were not mortal and they could not die or have children, and they did not know right from wrong.[1]

God commanded Adam and Eve to have children, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and have dominion over … every living thing that moveth upon the earth".[1][15] God told them they could eat of any tree in the garden except for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and that the day they ate the fruit from that tree they would die.[1][16] Adam was made “lord or governor of all things on earth, and at the same time [enjoyed] communion … with his Maker, without a veil [sic] to separate between.”[17]

Maybe to answer your question, call local Mormon Temple in Glenmore. They could explain it to you. Or even better, have one their group of Missionaries drop by your place.

[averagejoe]

At best, we’ve all read a bad translation—a translation of translations of translations of hand-copied copies of copies of copies of copies, and on and on, hundreds of times. About 400 years passed between the writing of the first Christian manuscripts and their compilation into the New Testament. (That’s the same amount of time between the arrival of the Pilgrims on the Mayflower and today.) The first books of the Old Testament were written 1,000 years before that. In other words, some 1,500 years passed between the day the first biblical author put stick to clay and when the books that would become the New Testament were chosen. There were no printing presses beforehand or until 1,000 years later. There were no vacuum-sealed technologies to preserve paper for centuries. Dried clay broke, papyrus and parchment crumbled away, primitive inks faded.

Don't get so upset. It's just a forum discussion.....