We Invented Jesus Christ

[Necro]

So what's your point?

We Invented Jesus Christ.

[averagejoe]

So what's your point?

We Invented Jesus Christ.

No evidence "We invented Jesus Christ" You need to disprove all that I have put forth to be a little credible....

I've asked for historical evidence. So far you only go to debunking sites. How about historians from the time of Christ's time. I have given two Romans who confirm Christ, the earthquake at the time of his death and the full eclipse of the sun....

[OREZ]

So what's your point?

We Invented Jesus Christ.

Sorry but you're not very good at this are you? The fact that a great many people celebrate Christ's birth on the wrong date doesn't prove or even mildly suggest that Christ never existed.

This thread has become just as silly as I thought it would.

[Necro]

Joe says - No evidence "We invented Jesus Christ" You need to disprove all that I have put forth

Nope.

You need to substantiate your *evidence* by providing fact based, peer-reviewed archeological *evidence* of your claim that jesus ever walked my/our earth.

I find it odd that a god came visiting and left so little *evidence*

Don't you?

[Necro]

Sorry but you're not very good at this are you? The fact that a great many people celebrate Christ's birth on the wrong date doesn't prove or even mildly suggest that Christ never existed.

This thread has become just as silly as I thought it would.

*rolls eyes

From your post I extrapolate phrases like "I know"

I expect ad hominem attacks but simple words like "silly" and "wrong date" and "if you only knew" mean nothing when simple words like "proof", carry such an ominous tone you'd rather attack than provide your own *evidence*, I understand your faith is nothing more than a weight.

I have patience, and hope, at some point, you will bridge the gap between "silly" and "evidence", tho I don't hold my breathe.

[Glacier]

The scholars largely agree that Jesus was a real person. That much we know. Whether or not he was who he claimed to be is a topic for another thread. The onus in this thread is on those who break with the experts by claiming Jesus was invented by man to mimic the likes of Horus and Krishana.

When asked to present evidence, we see memes like this:


Of course you're going to get attacked for posting that. Pretty much every single point is wrong on this meme including the last note that BCE is sometimes written as CE. Why not admit that you have invested so much into the theory that Jesus was invented by man that you'll post crack pot theories and falsehoods without doing an ounce of Googling simply because it fits your preconceived theory?

Once you've done that, dust yourself off, and promise to use Google before posting memes in the future. That way you can debunk your own theory before someone else does it for you. You might actually learn something (humans are more open to new information through self-discovery than by being told they're wrong on an internet forum).

[averagejoe]

Christian History being changed....

Actually it's:

B.C. Before Christ

and has now been changed to:

B.C. E. Before Common Era.

and

A.D. is Latin an abbreviation of anno Domini Nostri Jesu Christi, Latin for "in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ".

has been changed to:

C. E. Common Era

[Necro]

The scholars largely agree that Jesus was a real person. That much we know. Whether or not he was who he claimed to be is a topic for another thread. The onus in this thread is on those who break with the experts

(my bold)

Please provide expert links, names..

[Glacier]

Please provide expert links, names..

https://www.google.ca/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

The vast majority of scholars who write on the subject agree that Jesus existed,[5][6][7][8] although scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the biblical accounts, and the only two events subject to "almost universal assent" are that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.[9][10][11][12] Historical Jesus scholars typically contend that he was a Galilean Jew living in a time of messianic and apocalyptic expectations.[13][14] Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, whose example he may have followed, and after John was executed, began his own preaching in Galilee for about one to three years prior to his execution.

Please at least admit that you posted an erroneous meme that is completely debunked with simple Google searching. It's about the same level of stupidity as the earth being flat and moon landing being faked. Wanting something to be true doesn't make it true. Do your own research.

[Necro]

No archeological evidence exists proving jesus walked this earth.

none

[averagejoe]

No archeological evidence exists proving jesus walked this earth.

none

Please expand on your statement....you have been given accounts of Roman's giving accounts of Christ.
What do you mean by archeological? Personal belongs, archeological sites, physical evidence....please again expand. This is fun!

[Glacier]

No archeological evidence exists proving jesus walked this earth.

none

So you believe the meme you posted? You honestly think Hindus think Krishna was born on December 21st without a shred of evidence (archaeological or otherwise) to support your claim? Just wow! So much for the idea that atheists are rational thinkers.

P.S. There are lots of people in history that existed to which there is no archaeological evidence for. Archaeology is not the only method they use to investigate the past.

[averagejoe]

Such fun and interesting researching Jesus the Christ and what you find!

Story of finding the True Cross of Christ.


Finding the True Cross

The True Cross is the name for physical remnants which, by a Catholic tradition, are believed to be from the cross upon which Jesus was crucified.[1]

According to post-Nicene historians such as Socrates Scholasticus, the Empress Helena, mother of Constantine, the first Christian Emperor of Rome, travelled to the Holy Land in 326–28, founding churches and establishing relief agencies for the poor. Historians Gelasius of Caesarea and Rufinus claimed that she discovered the hiding place of three crosses that were believed to be used at the crucifixion of Jesus and of two thieves, St. Dismas and Gestas, executed with him, and that a miracle revealed which of the three was the True Cross.

According to Eusebius
Eusebius of Caesarea, in his Life of Constantine,[8] describes how the site of the Holy Sepulchre, originally a site of veneration for the Christian community in Jerusalem, had been covered with earth and a temple of Venus had been built on top. Although Eusebius does not say as much, this would probably have been done as part of Hadrian's reconstruction of Jerusalem as Aelia Capitolina in 135, following the destruction during the Jewish Revolt of 70 and Bar Kokhba's revolt of 132–135. Following his conversion to Christianity, Emperor Constantine ordered in about 325–326 that the site be uncovered and instructed Saint Macarius, Bishop of Jerusalem, to build a church on the site. In his Life of Constantine, Eusebius does not mention the finding of the True Cross.

With the Cross were also found the Holy Nails, which Helena took with her back to Constantinople. According to Theodoret, "She had part of the cross of our Saviour conveyed to the palace. The rest was enclosed in a covering of silver, and committed to the care of the bishop of the city, whom she exhorted to preserve it carefully, in order that it might be transmitted uninjured to posterity."


An injured young man is healed by the True Cross.


A relic of the True Cross being carried in procession through the Piazza San Marco, Venice.

According to Socrates Scholasticus
Socrates Scholasticus (born c. 380), in his Ecclesiastical History, gives a full description of the discovery[9] that was repeated later by Sozomen and by Theodoret. In it he describes how Saint Helena, Constantine's aged mother, had the pagan temple destroyed and the Sepulchre uncovered, whereupon three crosses and the titulus from Jesus's crucifixion were uncovered as well. In Socrates's version of the story, Macarius had the three crosses placed in turn on a deathly ill woman. This woman recovered at the touch of the third cross, which was taken as a sign that this was the cross of Christ, the new Christian symbol. Socrates also reports that, having also found the Holy Nails (the nails with which Christ had been fastened to the cross), Helena sent these to Constantinople, where they were incorporated into the emperor's helmet and the bridle of his horse.

According to Sozomen
Sozomen (died c. 450), in his Ecclesiastical History, gives essentially the same version as Socrates. He also adds that it was said (by whom he does not say) that the location of the Sepulchre was "disclosed by a Hebrew who dwelt in the East, and who derived his information from some documents which had come to him by paternal inheritance" (although Sozomen himself disputes this account) and that a dead person was also revived by the touch of the Cross. Later popular versions of this story state that the Jew who assisted Helena was named Jude or Judas, but later converted to Christianity and took the name Kyriakos.

According to Theodoret
When the empress beheld the place where the Saviour suffered, she immediately ordered the idolatrous temple, which had been there erected, to be destroyed, and the very earth on which it stood to be removed. When the tomb, which had been so long concealed, was discovered, three crosses were seen buried near the Lord's sepulchre. All held it as certain that one of these crosses was that of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that the other two were those of the thieves who were crucified with Him. Yet they could not discern to which of the three the Body of the Lord had been brought nigh, and which had received the outpouring of His precious Blood. But the wise and holy Macarius, the president of the city, resolved this question in the following manner. He caused a lady of rank, who had been long suffering from disease, to be touched by each of the crosses, with earnest prayer, and thus discerned the virtue residing in that of the Saviour. For the instant this cross was brought near the lady, it expelled the sore disease, and made her whole.

[averagejoe]

A HISTORY OF THE CHURCH
IN SEVEN BOOKS

SOCRATES

CHAPTER XVII
THE EMPEROR’S MOTHER HELEN HAVING ARRIVED AT JERUSALEM, FINDS THE CROSS OF CHRIST WHICH SHE HAD LONG SOUGHT, AND BUILDS A CHURCH

HELEN the emperor’s mother (from whose name Drepanum once a village, having been made a city by the emperor was called Helenopolis), being divinely directed by dreams went to Jerusalem. Finding that which was once Jerusalem, desolate as a Preserve for autumnal fruits, according to the prophet, she sought carefully the sepulchre of Christ, from which he arose after his burial; and after much difficulty, by God’s help she discovered it. What the cause of the difficulty was I will explain in few words. Those who embraced the Christian faith, after the period of his passion, greatly venerated this tomb; but those who hated Christianity, having covered the spot with a mound of earth, erected on it a temple to Venus, and set up her image there, endeavouring to abolish the recollection of the place. This succeeded for a long time; but it at length became known to the emperor’s mother, who having caused the statue to be thrown down, the earth to be removed, and the ground entirely cleared, found three crosses in the sepulchre: one of these was that blessed cross on which Christ had hung, the other two were those on which the two thieves that were crucified with him had died. With these was also found the tablet of Pilate, on which he had inscribed in various characters, that the Christ who was crucified was king of the Jews. Since however it was doubtful which was the cross they were in search of, the emperor’s mother was not a little distressed; but from this trouble she was shortly relieved by Macarius bishop of Jerusalem, whose faith solved the doubt, for he sought a sign from God and obtained it. The sign was this:—a certain woman of the neighbourhood, who had been long afflicted with disease, was now just at the point of death; the bishop therefore ordered that each of the crosses should be applied to the dying woman, believing that she would be healed on being touched by the precious cross. Nor was he disappointed in his expectation: for the two crosses having been applied which were not the Lord’s, the woman still continued in a dying state; but when the third, which was the true cross, touched her, she was immediately healed, and recovered her former strength. In this manner then was the genuine cross discovered. The emperor’s mother erected over the place of the sepulchre a magnificent church, and named it New Jerusalem, having built it opposite to that old and deserted city. There she left a portion of the cross, enclosed in a silver case, as a memorial to those who might wish to see it: the other part she sent to the emperor, who being persuaded that the city would be perfectly secure where that relic should be preserved, privately enclosed it in his own Statue, which stands on a large column of porphyry in the forum called Constantine’s at Constantinople. I have written this from report indeed; but almost all the inhabitants of Constantinople affirm that it is true. Moreover Constantine caused the nails with which Christ’s hands were fastened to the cross (for his mother having found these also in the sepulchre had sent them) to be converted into bridle-bits and a helmet, which he used in his military expeditions. The emperor supplied all materials for the construction of the churches, and wrote to Macarius the bishop to expedite these edifices. When the emperor’s mother had completed the New Jerusalem, she reared another church not at all inferior, over the cave at Bethlehem where Christ was born according to the flesh: nor did she stop here, but built a third on the mount of his Ascension. So devoutly was she affected in these matters, that she would pray in the company of women; and inviting the virgins enrolled in the register of the churches to a repast, serving them herself, she brought the dishes to table. She was also very munificent to the churches and to the poor; and having completed a life of piety, she died when about eighty years old. Her remains were conveyed to New Rome, and deposited in the imperial sepulchres.

[averagejoe]

Ancient historians or writers are the best for historical history as many of today's so called historians are corrupting history.
There twisting history to fit secular history.....

From Glaciers posting...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

Evidence of Jesus
See also: Historical reliability of the Gospels, Historicity of Jesus, Sources for the historicity of Jesus, Josephus on Jesus, Mara bar Serapion on Jesus, and Tacitus on Christ

There is no physical or archaeological evidence for Jesus. All sources are documentary, mainly Christian writings, such as the gospels and the purported letters of the apostles. The authenticity and reliability of these sources has been questioned by many scholars, and few events mentioned in the gospels are universally accepted.[39]

In conjunction with biblical sources, three mentions of Jesus in non-Christian sources have been used in the historical analyses of the existence of Jesus.[40] These are two passages in the writings of the Jewish historian Josephus, and one from the Roman historian Tacitus.[40][41]

Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, written around 93–94 AD, includes two references to the biblical Jesus Christ in Books 18 and 20. The general scholarly view is that while the longer passage, known as the Testimonium Flavianum, is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus, which was then subject to Christian interpolation.[42][43] Of the other mention in Josephus, Josephus scholar Louis H. Feldman has stated that "few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus' reference to Jesus in Antiquities 20, 9, 1 and it is only disputed by a small number of scholars.[44][45][46][47]

Roman historian Tacitus referred to Christus and his execution by Pontius Pilate in his Annals (written c. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.[48] Robert E. Van Voorst states that the very negative tone of Tacitus' comments on Christians make the passage extremely unlikely to have been forged by a Christian scribe[49] and Boyd and Eddy state that the Tacitus reference is now widely accepted as an independent confirmation of Christ's crucifixion,[50] although some scholars question the authenticity of the passage on various grounds.[49][51][52][53][54][55][56][57]

Other considerations outside Christendom are the possible mentions of Jesus in the Talmud. The Talmud speaks in some detail of the conduct of criminal cases of Israel and gathered in one place from 200-500 C.E. "On the eve of the Passover Yeshua was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy." The first date of the Sanhedrin judiciary council being recorded as functioning is 57 B.C.E