Sask. Bus Accident

[my5cents]

I think everyone is in agreement that the truck blew the stop sign. Only thing I want to know is if that sun played any part in it. I have my doubts given other people on the scene said it wasn't. So If not, then he is lying, and that brings into play a whole new set of charges that should be laid against him.

Lying to the police isn't an offence. His credibility will be shot, but I don't think he would present well anyway.

[GordonH]

Police don't start court proceedings that's Crown

[Fancy]

The truck driver may disremember events. He may genuinely remember the sun even if it wasn’t there (if that’s what he said). Brain can play some horrible tricks in catastrophic situations.

[Urban Cowboy]

Its up to each family if they want to pursue with a wrongful death action. Now if the investigation concludes the driver was in the wrong, then the Crown in Saskatchewan I suspect would lay charges.

Anyone suing would sue for negligence.

The truck driver will likely be charged, but "the driver being in the wrong" doesn't factor in the decision to charge.

With so many eyes focused on this, and so many fatalities, I'd venture a huge part of the discussion is what charges to lay, if it's proven the rig blew through the stop sign.

My guess they'd go with the most severe, but there are various options I can think of that could easily apply. Criminal negligence being one, but perhaps even sixteen counts of vehicular manslaughter.

[burnedatstake]

maybe we should pray about it. if you swing one way you could pray a pox on the driver and his family for say......7 generations. or if you swing the other way you could pray for mercy and forgiveness. im sure that god will only be annoyed 50 percent of the time with 50 percent of the prayers. god may be sovereign - but we plebes sure try to sell our own carnal desires.......

[Snman]

The truck driver may disremember events. He may genuinely remember the sun even if it wasn’t there (if that’s what he said). Brain can play some horrible tricks in catastrophic situations.

Very true. It's called confabulation and it is not at all uncommon, even in events that might be less than catastrophic.

[Fancy]

Lying to the police isn't an offence.

That depends. Lying to police could result in perjury, making a false statement or public mischief charges.

[Fancy]

There is a petition that has garnered over 10,000 signatures requesting changes at that intersection. I don't know what a 4 way stop would do as people still blow through those. Rumble strips might be of help.

[my5cents]

With so many eyes focused on this, and so many fatalities, I'd venture a huge part of the discussion is what charges to lay, if it's proven the rig blew through the stop sign.

My guess they'd go with the most severe, but there are various options I can think of that could easily apply. Criminal negligence being one, but perhaps even sixteen counts of vehicular manslaughter.

You'd have to be a little further South to charge "vehicular manslaughter". Just like a "wrongful death suit", wrong country.

The most serious would be Criminal Negligence Causing Death X 16 and Crim Neg Causing Bodily Injury X 13.

The type of charge could run the gamut. Several years ago, a woman was operating a van transporting farm workers. It was overloaded, the seats were wooden planks, no seat belts, she killed, I think 6. She was charged with Driving Without Due Care and Attention, (a Motor Vehicle Act charge [Provincial Statute]) and got a fine, and I believe didn't even pay that.

The licensing of truck drivers in Alberta is the wild wild west. (The accident involved a Calgary truck) There are many immigrants to Canada who converted their foreign class 5 licenses to BC licenses, straight across. In some of these countries getting a driver's license is like getting a fishing license here, there is no fishing test to get a fishing license.

They would then try to obtain a class 1 BC and failed miserably. All of a sudden they would "move" to Alberta and a few weeks later would "move" back to BC and want to convert their brand new Alberta class 1 to a BC class 1.

The outcome of the entire investigation will be interesting to say the least.

[Fancy]

Food for thought:

https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/ ... egligence/
https://www.canlii.org/en/mb/mbca/doc/2 ... bca25.html

[my5cents]

Food for thought:

https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/ ... egligence/
https://www.canlii.org/en/mb/mbca/doc/2 ... bca25.html

Yes, the first link describes the more serious charges available throughout Canada for driving.

"Careless Driving", called "Driving Without Due Care and Attention" in BC, is a Provincial Statute charge, available in all provinces with very minor difference, except the name. It is punishable by "Summary Conviction", meaning a maximum of a $2000 fine and 6 months in jail. Jail time for this offense is rare indeed.

"Dangerous Driving", "Dangerous Driving Causing Bodily Harm", and "Dangerous Driving Causing Death"

"Criminal Negligence", "Criminal Negligence Causing Bodily Harm" and "Criminal Negligence Causing Death".

Both the Dangerous Driving charges and the Criminal Negligence charges are Criminal Charges under Canada's Criminal Code. As you can read in the second link the penalty can be quite lenient but it can also be very harsh.

On top of the penalties assessed by the courts and subsequently the licensing authority of the province of residence, Criminal charges result in the accused having a criminal record that will restrict travel.

It was interesting to read in the case law that the accused in the Dangerous Driving conviction case, where a 22 year old male, killed 3 people and injured 1 after blowing a stop sign.

This was obviously a case where the results of a traffic violation, dictated the serious charge. If police had observed the young man blow the stop sign and not hit anything, he would have received a ticket. There was no evidence of impairment, or even speeding.

His sentence also reflected that although the severity of the results of blowing the stop sign dictated a severe charge, the sentence was lenient in the extreme. (2 years suspended sentence, probation and a driving prohibition and 100 hours community service).

[swanterky]

The front of the bus was not crushed as it would have been if the truck had stopped, and was moving slowly across the road. The pictures of the bus show that the front of the bus was sheared off, which would indicate that the sides of the trailers literally ripped the front of the bus off. The metal on the drivers side of the bus was bent outward, showing the direction of the forces, but the front of the truck, and it's drivers side, showed little or no damage. The skid marks, and the final position of the bus, show that the truck was moving very quickly across the highway, which caused the bus to move almost straight sideways after impact. It would appear the the impact of the bus flipped and swung the trailers, which threw their cargo in the direction the truck had been traveling. and flipped over and slid, pulling the back of the tractor around with them, until the trailers and the tractor were at 90°to the roadway of the secondary highway. One of the surviving players nearer the back said that in a split second, the front of the bus was just gone. It is a terrible shame that the previous accident only caused the addition of a light on top of the stop sign, and that more effective devices to alert drivers about the coming stop were not installed, such as rumble strips, starting 1/4 mile or more from the intersection, and becoming higher, and closer together nearer to the intersection, and a much larger stop sign, perhaps located in an island in the middle of the secondary road, right at the intersection, as a trucker suggested. It was only a matter of a couple of seconds that caused the death of so many people; it would be a crime if this intersection has one more terrible accident like this one, as a similar accident killed a whole family back in 1997. Something, at least rumble strips, should have been installed 20 years ago! Also, I believe that it is time for Canada to have a Federal Truck licensing program, with complete testing in urban and highway areas, with all types of trailers, including B-trains. We see lots of great pro truckers in BC, but also many who block roadways in winter by refusing to chain up in in icy conditions, stopping traffic for hours when the units skid across highways when traction is lost. Drivers must not drive past any time period where they lose their alertness, as well. We don't need any more accidents like this latest one anywhere in Canada, again! Just watch the videos of the shaken parents who have lost their kids to this unnecessary tragedy, that has destroyed so many lives! We must never forget the loss of these fine young people, and the parents who must now put their shattered lives back together.

[my5cents]

The only thing you missed that also contributed to the debris travelling and ending up on the North West corner is that also, the bus driver saw the truck (too late) at the last second or so before impact and turned to the left also contributing to the direction of travel of the debris.

I agree with you, the nature of the damage indicates that the truck was not just starting up from a stopped position at the sign.

The trouble with rumble strips is that they are no good during snow, but I agree that would be one of the warning devices I would have installed, perhaps large "Stop Ahead" signs and perhaps flashing amber lights with the stop ahead signs.

As I said before I hope the RCMP have addressed the "sun was in my eyes defense", because it's BS.

[swanterky]

One of the parents, whose name I forget, said that he was there quite shortly after the accident, and that the sun was still high in the sky, so could not have been an issue. I don't think that the driver of the bus had much time to turn, the violence of the impact with the truck just spun it around in an instant, throwing many of the riders out into the snow. It makes me wonder, looking at this photo, if more of the victims would have survived if they were belted in. I always feel vulnerable, when riding on a bus, esp. when I think of it stopping suddenly. I wonder why buses don't have seat belts? The shearing impact force, acting from the right to left side of the bus, is shown clearly in this photo: download/file.php?mode=view&id=34345

[my5cents]

One of the parents, whose name I forget, said that he was there quite shortly after the accident, and that the sun was still high in the sky, so could not have been an issue.

Unfortunately in a serious incident like this, crown would need a little more than those observations to prove the sun wasn't in the eyes of the truck driver.

I'm thinking using a similar semi tractor unit at the same time of day. Hopefully they already done it because everyday the sun is in a different position at the same time of day. Perhaps with the assistance of an expert they could provide for that change as well.

................It makes me wonder, looking at this photo, if more of the victims would have survived if they were belted in. I always feel vulnerable, when riding on a bus, esp. when I think of it stopping suddenly. I wonder why buses don't have seat belts? The shearing impact force, acting from the right to left side of the bus, is shown clearly in this photo....

The moronic sensationalizing media have unfortunately mostly shown photo's of the debris. I guess the bent metal, broken personal belongings sell more newspapers.

There is a saying in accident investigation, "talk to the road". You'll note it isn't "talk to the debris"

From the limited number of photo's that IMO "accidentally" showed that actual POI, (point of impact) it appears to be nearer to the centre line of Hwy 35 at 335, indicating to me there was some attempt by the bus driver to veer left before the impact. Because of the tree line on the S/E corner the bus driver wouldn't have had much time, and thus the impact is only slightly to the left of his original direction of travel.

Although I rarely travel by bus. Usually a hotel shuttle to an airport or being bused when my plane can't land at it's destination. I like you, feel something missing, not wearing a seat belt.