Letting fires burn

[Woodenhead]

I'd let this thread burn.

[gardengirl]

So about road maintenance.....
It is obvious you have a real problem with gov't agencies. As for the "duty of care" requirements, I am guessing you have never worked for one of these privatized companies. The ones who bid the lowest, pay the lowest, hire the cheapest labour. They will do whatever they can to cut corners and do the least they can to increase their profits. There are lots and lots of shortcuts taken before anything shows up. That is the gamble they take, but it is about profit, not your safety.

Let's just privatize everything. We can have Joe Bob's Discount Boats running the ferry service. We'll get rid of the RCMP and contract that out to private security companies (you know, like the Commisisonaires...$14hr employees). Every year we can put the bids up again and get a whole new batch of guys to try out. Lots of competition for racing to the bottom.
Of course if things don't work out, we can sue them. After all, negligence is so easy to prove and litigation so affordable.

[brentville]

So about road maintenance.....
It is obvious you have a real problem with gov't agencies. As for the "duty of care" requirements, I am guessing you have never worked for one of these privatized companies. The ones who bid the lowest, pay the lowest, hire the cheapest labour. They will do whatever they can to cut corners and do the least they can to increase their profits. There are lots and lots of shortcuts taken before anything shows up. That is the gamble they take, but it is about profit, not your safety.

Let's just privatize everything. We can have Joe Bob's Discount Boats running the ferry service. We'll get rid of the RCMP and contract that out to private security companies (you know, like the Commisisonaires...$14hr employees). Every year we can put the bids up again and get a whole new batch of guys to try out. Lots of competition for racing to the bottom.
Of course if things don't work out, we can sue them. After all, negligence is so easy to prove and litigation so affordable.

I would have no problem with Government agencies if they didn't bury all their mistakes instead of paying for them. "We'll get rid of the RCMP". Many Municipalities and a few Provinces have done exactly that....ever heard of Ontario? They don't hire "private security companies" or "Commisisonaires". Besides, I never suggested anyone dump the RCMP.

"Of course if things don't work out, we can sue them." Did you see I mentioned the word, "bond"? A surety bond assures the Province that the Contractor will perform as contracted. The Province merely attaches the bond if the contractual obligations are not met. Then the Contractor has to sue to prove obligations were met to get money back. The Province doesn't have to prove anything or"sue" anyone. The Contractor must prove that they were NOT negligent and met their contractual obligations. I'm about done with Privatization and likely a few others are too so PM me if you want to argue this further.
Let's get back to the subject, "Letting Fires Burn".

NEGLIGENCE!
"Protecting life is obviously and always the most important consideration in fighting any wildfire, said Burgess. Then the focus switches to protecting “high-risk values” such as homes, businesses and government infrastructure such as telecommunications networks and power lines." Glen Burgess is the NEW Incident Commander. What happened to the old Commander and why was he/she removed? Life and homes are high-risk values, according to Burgess, so why didn't BC Wildfire Services attack the Mount Eneas fire immediately? A 4x4 can get within 0.5 km of the lightening strike and it was still campfire sized at sunrise. Even I could have stomped out. So, why was this "high-risk value" deliberately ignored?

Do you suggest BC Wildfire Services didn't screw up here?

If so, please tell us all, under what circumstances it's acceptable procedure to ignore a "high-risk value" interface fire, during fire season.

[t76turbo]

“Let's just privatize everything. We can have Joe Bob's Discount Boats running the ferry service. We'll get rid of the RCMP and contract that out to private security companies (you know, like the Commisisonaires...$14hr employees). Every year we can put the bids up again and get a whole new batch of guys to try out. Lots of competition for racing to the bottom.
Of course if things don't work out, we can sue them. After all, negligence is so easy to prove and litigation so affordable.”[/quote]

We should privatize a lot of our provincial services. I highly doubt Joe Bob’s Duscount Boats would stay in businesses long if he ordered some new fast ferries at a projected cost of $210 million, then end up paying more then twice that to the tune of $450 million only to sell them a little over a year later for 19.4 million. Yup, he’d sure stay in business long!

Our provincial leaders and their gang of crooks only know one job; burning our money with zero accountability

Sorry, let’s get

[ShannonG]

Several people from the area have mentioned the fire stayed small for at least twelve hours and was easy to access, not to mention the abundance of daylight when it started. I'm wondering why no one jumped in a truck and shoveled some dirt over it? Surely homes that are forest interface have some of those forestry-style backpack fire extinguishers kicking around? I know we do.

Edit: Referring specifically to the Mt Eneas fire.

[dogspoiler]

Great post Shannon. Just like some other things that are not being dealt with effectively people may have to deal with it themselves. Vigilante Firefighters ?

[brentville]

Several people from the area have mentioned the fire stayed small for at least twelve hours and was easy to access, not to mention the abundance of daylight when it started. I'm wondering why no one jumped in a truck and shoveled some dirt over it? Surely homes that are forest interface have some of those forestry-style backpack fire extinguishers kicking around? I know we do.

Edit: Referring specifically to the Mt Eneas fire.

Yes, I thought about heading across Hwy97, cutting the chain on the access gate, driving to the strike and stomping it out.
However, they knew a thunderstorm was coming and would likely be prepared. I'd called *5555 and BC Wildfire Services track record since the 2003 Okanagan Park Mountain Fire had been to get on these strikes in short order. No reasonable person would have expected they'd merely ignore it, especially considering it was a high-risk interface fire.

[ShannonG]

Great post Shannon. Just like some other things that are not being dealt with effectively people may have to deal with it themselves. Vigilante Firefighters ?

There's nothing vigilante about protecting your own property, and being prepared to do so. We consider ourselves the 'first line of defense' when it comes to fires close to home, and are prepared accordingly. We have actually had to fight a lightning caused fire less than 200m from our home until the pros arrived, so I am not just blowing smoke (pardon the pun).

[gardengirl]

Several people from the area have mentioned the fire stayed small for at least twelve hours and was easy to access, not to mention the abundance of daylight when it started. I'm wondering why no one jumped in a truck and shoveled some dirt over it? Surely homes that are forest interface have some of those forestry-style backpack fire extinguishers kicking around? I know we do.

Edit: Referring specifically to the Mt Eneas fire.

Well it seems their hindsight is 20/20. It is a bit confusing though since they were so aware of what was going on that the evacuation order came as a surprise. "No warning". The fact that there was an uncontrolled forest fire close by should have been a clue. I would think they should of had an inkling and been prepared as many people have done since 2003. When I saw the lightning, I made sure I had my "go bags" ready. They were very fortunate to have an RCMP member come to the door.

When the fire happened in Glenrosa in 2009, we had no such assistance. It moved so fast that the roads were closed and people were not able to get home to do anything. Those who were inside the "fire zone" knew enough to start getting stuff together when they smelled smoke. I was caught in the roadblock but immediately phoned my husband to tell him about how close the fire was. I managed to get home using Salloum and we got the cars packed, pets packed, and were ready to leave in less than one hour. The Webber Rd was bumper to bumper, even though no one was coming door to door telling people to get out. Somehow the people in the neighborhood figured out that they should go....

So regarding the Peachland/Summerland fire, let's review:
Forestry crews have saved those houses,no injuries, no lives have been lost. So where is the screw-up?
It sounds to me like there has been a very positive outcome.

On a side-note, it is a fact that even if everything IS done properly, in pretty much any situation, there is no Guarantee of a positive outcome.

[ShannonG]

Well it seems their hindsight is 20/20. It is a bit confusing though since they were so aware of what was going on that the evacuation order came as a surprise. "No warning". The fact that there was an uncontrolled forest fire close by should have been a clue. I would think they should of had an inkling and been prepared as many people have done since 2003. When I saw the lightning, I made sure I had my "go bags" ready. They were very fortunate to have an RCMP member come to the door.

When the fire happened in Glenrosa in 2009, we had no such assistance. It moved so fast that the roads were closed and people were not able to get home to do anything. Those who were inside the "fire zone" knew enough to start getting stuff together when they smelled smoke. I was caught in the roadblock but immediately phoned my husband to tell him about how close the fire was. I managed to get home using Salloum and we got the cars packed, pets packed, and were ready to leave in less than one hour. The Webber Rd was bumper to bumper, even though no one was coming door to door telling people to get out. Somehow the people in the neighborhood figured out that they should go....

So regarding the Peachland/Summerland fire, let's review:
Forestry crews have saved those houses,no injuries, no lives have been lost. So where is the screw-up?
It sounds to me like there has been a very positive outcome.

On a side-note, it is a fact that even if everything IS done properly, in pretty much any situation, there is no Guarantee of a positive outcome.

Finally, a voice of reason. Maybe they should file the previously mentioned class action suit over all their houses that DIDN'T burn down and see how far they get.

[t76turbo]

“Finally, a voice of reason. Maybe they should file the previously mentioned class action suit over all their houses that DIDN'T burn down and see how far they get.“

If we don’t speak out and voice our concerns, perhaps even threat legal action, nothing will change. Fighting fires is a tough gig. It’s the decision makers that have me concerned . Wonder how’d you feel if you called an emergency phone number to report a pending catastrophic event only to have no reaction. To watch a fire close by slowly go out of control and no emergency crews attend? I’d call that negligence, and that should be punished.

[ShannonG]

“Finally, a voice of reason. Maybe they should file the previously mentioned class action suit over all their houses that DIDN'T burn down and see how far they get.“

If we don’t speak out and voice our concerns, perhaps even threat legal action, nothing will change. Fighting fires is a tough gig. It’s the decision makers that have me concerned . Wonder how’d you feel if you called an emergency phone number to report a pending catastrophic event only to have no reaction. To watch a fire close by slowly go out of control and no emergency crews attend? I’d call that negligence, and that should be punished.

According to you, it was the slowest moving catastrophic event in history for at least the first 24 hours. And again I would ask why the neighborhood wasn't more involved in putting out the 'campfire'. Is calling a toll free number really enough? Feel free to voice your concerns; we are all entitled to our opinion. What bothers me is your mass labeling of incompetence when you have either returned already to your intact home, or are preparing to. If you are qualified to do the jobs of fire boss or higher, apply for the positions and enact change from the inside out.

[ShannonG]

And for the record, I have been in that position, but I was standing in pitch black forest, with barely one bar of cell service, trying to find my husband who was sending me garbled texts about a fire close by. Dropping calls to emergency dispatch and giving garbled directions while hauling 5 gallon pails of water in a Volkswagen Passat. Because I don't think making a phone call is enough. No one is more invested in saving my home than me.

[t76turbo]

“Finally, a voice of reason. Maybe they should file the previously mentioned class action suit over all their houses that DIDN'T burn down and see how far they get.“

If we don’t speak out and voice our concerns, perhaps even threat legal action, nothing will change. Fighting fires is a tough gig. It’s the decision makers that have me concerned . Wonder how’d you feel if you called an emergency phone number to report a pending catastrophic event only to have no reaction. To watch a fire close by slowly go out of control and no emergency crews attend? I’d call that negligence, and that should be punished.

According to you, it was the slowest moving catastrophic event in history for at least the first 24 hours. And again I would ask why the neighborhood wasn't more involved in putting out the 'campfire'. Is calling a toll free number really enough? Feel free to voice your concerns; we are all entitled to our opinion. What bothers me is your mass labeling of incompetence when you have either returned already to your intact home, or are preparing to. If you are qualified to do the jobs of fire boss or higher, apply for the positions and enact change from the inside out.

Just because you can see it doesn’t mean you can get to it. I don’t have a helicopter parked in my back yard however I have a close friend I can call and could have one hovering over my house within few hours. And I’m joe blow.
My parents neighbor owns a cherry orchard and whenever it rains he’s got a whirlybird blowing off cherries with in minutes! Why, because if he doesn’t he’ll potentially lose his crop and he knows this. So he makes plans and sets them into action when needed.

I’ve learned from 15 years ago. I now have two 5 hp gas water pumps, 300 feet of hose, one 5 hp trash pump, 2 small holding ponds disguised as gold fish ponds all at my house. Not to mention 1 international 7600 crew cab truck sitting at my farm property ready with water tank that would be at my house within an hour.
All this because (as mentioned just above) it IS MY HOUSE and I have very low confidence in our Gov. services. I’ve learned not to be cought with my pants around my ankles or better yet on my knees waiting for help.

[ShannonG]

Just because you can see it doesn’t mean you can get to it. I don’t have a helicopter parked in my back yard however I have a close friend I can call and could have one hovering over my house within few hours. And I’m joe blow.

I’ve learned from 15 years ago. I now have two 5 hp pumps, 300 feet of hose, one 5 hp trash pumps,2 small holding ponds disguised as gold fish ponds all at my house. Not to mention 1 international 7600 crew cab truck sitting at my farm property ready with water tank that would be at my house within an hour.
All this because (as mentioned just above) it IS MY HOUSE and I have very low confidence in our Gov. services. I’ve learned not to be cought with my pants around my ankles or better yet on my knees waiting for help.

And yet you left all that behind, and left your property in the hands of those you express no faith in being able to save it. I am happy for you that you didn't lose everything. Maybe you should take just a minute to be grateful too.
Edited to add: I in no way think people should stay behind when evacuaion orders roll in.