Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

nepal
Übergod
Posts: 1013
Joined: Jul 19th, 2009, 7:04 pm

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by nepal »

oldtrucker wrote:A cockpit perspective
This is a ejection from a CT-155 during a engine failure from a bird strike @ Moose Jaw


They lost the engine at about 235 knots which may have been a bit faster than the CT114 was flying at that point in flight in todays crash.

oldtrucker. Very good engine failure video example you provided here of what may have happened in Kamloops, but perhaps with ejection delay at Kamloops while helping passenger commit to eject. It looks like he tried his best to use his speed to gain height to return to the runway, but wing-stalled on the turn back. He was thinking in split seconds and almost got it turned around, a heroic effort, by an obviously very skilled pilot. Recovery from an engine failure at that stage of takeoff is extremely difficult. Good bet that a bird entered the engine over the end of the runway. On one of the eyewitness videos, a faint engine burst can be heard as the plane goes over the end of the runway, immediately before he grabs altitude for the potential attempted return.

Speculation on the cause is not encouraged, but their was initial speculation about a possible show manoeuvre, but that is highly unlikely, and mechanical emergency was more likely. The formal investigation will determine the actual cause.
.
Last edited by nepal on May 19th, 2020, 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Drip_Torch
Lord of the Board
Posts: 4023
Joined: Aug 16th, 2012, 10:56 am

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by Drip_Torch »

I can't imagine anyone would need to see another angle, however there is one quietly drifting around the internet. It is perhaps slightly better quality and a completely different angle.

https://www.facebook.com/ktrotman2/vide ... 009608245/

I had to think it over a bit before sharing it. In the end it did offer me a little more in terms of "sense making". I'm left with the impression he really did try to get it back over the airport, but in the end just ran out of time and air speed.
Last edited by Drip_Torch on May 18th, 2020, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Drip Torch - an upright and steadfast keeper of the flame, but when tilted sideways the contents spill and then our destiny is in the wind...
User avatar
oldtrucker
Guru
Posts: 6818
Joined: Nov 24th, 2013, 3:19 pm

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by oldtrucker »

Even though it's hard to see in the low quality cell phone vids...I don't see a drogue chute come out at all on person #2. Maybe it was just starting to deploy when they go past the tree line...even half or three quarters of a second sooner on the handle... There must have been a reason why the ejection was delayed.
Some may view my politically incorrect opinions as harsh and may be offended by them. Some think political correctness will be our undoing. Zero cuckery. You and 917 others hate this post.
User avatar
Urban Cowboy
Guru
Posts: 7518
Joined: Apr 27th, 2013, 3:47 pm

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by Urban Cowboy »

That angle does seem to show that the parachutes didn't have time to open properly.
“We isolate now so when we gather again, no one is missing" - Unknown
User avatar
Drip_Torch
Lord of the Board
Posts: 4023
Joined: Aug 16th, 2012, 10:56 am

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by Drip_Torch »

That's pretty much exactly the impression I'm left with. Capt. MacDougall had it levelled and right side up, but the system punched out the back seat and then the front seat. I can see Capt MacDougall's chute at least starting to open, before he goes out of sight, but by the time Capt. Casey was ejected the jet was already nose down.

Milliseconds made the difference. And of course, what isn't lost on me is the fact he tried so hard to get it back over the airport. Obviously, had they ejected at the apex of the climb, they would have had a much better chance, but it seems he really tried to avoid sending the jet into a populated neighborhood and hung on as long as he could.
Drip Torch - an upright and steadfast keeper of the flame, but when tilted sideways the contents spill and then our destiny is in the wind...
Sonny Taylor
Board Meister
Posts: 417
Joined: Jun 29th, 2005, 2:20 am

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by Sonny Taylor »

I've dabbled in aviation forums for perhaps 25 years. Almost always when a serious accident occurred and it's possible causes were deeply discussed, someone would surely chime in and admonish the forum members with something like this:

"People, people... Please STOP SPECULATING and wait for the accident report !!!"

So I'm a little surprised I haven't seen a post like that yet. Then again, this isn't an aviation forum.

I've always disagreed with that thought. Internet forums are for discussion, and if speculation is part of that then so be it. Plenty of speculation going on here, but I think that's a good thing; it's intellectually stimulating and helps put some thoughts into a new perspective.

But for sure, I await the official report resulting from the investigation.
User avatar
Urban Cowboy
Guru
Posts: 7518
Joined: Apr 27th, 2013, 3:47 pm

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by Urban Cowboy »

Drip_Torch wrote:That's pretty much exactly the impression I'm left with. Capt. MacDougall had it levelled and right side up, but the system punched out the back seat and then the front seat. I can see Capt MacDougall's chute at least starting to open, before he goes out of sight, but by the time Capt. Casey was ejected the jet was already nose down.

Milliseconds made the difference. And of course, what isn't lost on me is the fact he tried so hard to get it back over the airport. Obviously, had they ejected at the apex of the climb, they would have had a much better chance, but it seems he really tried to avoid sending the jet into a populated neighborhood and hung on as long as he could.


There is no back seat just two front seats.

I agree had they ejected at the peak of the climb they'd likely have been fine, as parachute would have opened all the way.

As it was, not only were they low, but they ejected practically sideways, which would make more sense in regards to the person on the ground stating it looked like the victim hit a tree.

The pilot clearly put the safety of people on the ground ahead of his own.
“We isolate now so when we gather again, no one is missing" - Unknown
User avatar
OKkayak
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 13727
Joined: May 14th, 2018, 11:10 pm

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by OKkayak »

Apparently the procedure for the CT114 with an engine out during take-off is to climb and try a restart. Assuming that there was an engine out, there was about 14 seconds between the time you hear the "pop" during take-off and the ejection of the crew. 14 seconds to recognize you lost the engine, react with a climb, attempt a restart, try to find a place to put the aircraft down, turn the aircraft to where you want to put it down and make the decision to eject and then eject and while all that is going on, the pilot is communicating to the passenger to follow his instructions that would have been covered during a pre-take off briefing. Absolute 100% respect!
User avatar
Drip_Torch
Lord of the Board
Posts: 4023
Joined: Aug 16th, 2012, 10:56 am

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by Drip_Torch »

Urban Cowboy wrote:There is no back seat just two front seats.

I agree had they ejected at the peak of the climb they'd likely have been fine, as parachute would have opened all the way.

As it was, not only were they low, but they ejected practically sideways, which would make more sense in regards to the person on the ground stating it looked like the victim hit a tree.

The pilot clearly put the safety of people on the ground ahead of his own.


You are completely right. I saw a picture in passing yesterday showing Capt Casey standing next to her plane and was left with the impression it was a back seat/front seat config, but I just looked again and side by each it is. I stand corrected.
Drip Torch - an upright and steadfast keeper of the flame, but when tilted sideways the contents spill and then our destiny is in the wind...
User avatar
ferri
Forum Administrator
Posts: 53669
Joined: May 11th, 2005, 3:21 pm

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by ferri »

Moving Tribute

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kamloops/ ... red-people

and, I think this is a very nice idea:

A road for Capt. Jenn Casey

Link to the petition in the article.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kamloops/ ... y-launched
“Weak people revenge. Strong people forgive. Intelligent people ignore.”
― Albert Einstein
rookie314
Übergod
Posts: 1612
Joined: Jun 11th, 2005, 10:00 am

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by rookie314 »

Drip_Torch wrote:That's pretty much exactly the impression I'm left with. Capt. MacDougall had it levelled and right side up, but the system punched out the back seat and then the front seat. I can see Capt MacDougall's chute at least starting to open, before he goes out of sight, but by the time Capt. Casey was ejected the jet was already nose down.

Milliseconds made the difference. And of course, what isn't lost on me is the fact he tried so hard to get it back over the airport. Obviously, had they ejected at the apex of the climb, they would have had a much better chance, but it seems he really tried to avoid sending the jet into a populated neighborhood and hung on as long as he could.


Nice narrative. There is no front seat back seat, it’s a tandem seat aircraft. If your gonna guess....we’ll,
BCwrangler
Posts: 14
Joined: Jul 9th, 2012, 7:14 pm

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by BCwrangler »

Search "blancolirio" on Youtube....He's great at factual reporting on aircraft incidents and He did a very good one on yesterday's crash
User avatar
The Green Barbarian
Insanely Prolific
Posts: 60106
Joined: Sep 16th, 2010, 9:13 am

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by The Green Barbarian »

LET'S GO BRANDON!

Justin Trudeau is a blight on our once great country.
User avatar
The Green Barbarian
Insanely Prolific
Posts: 60106
Joined: Sep 16th, 2010, 9:13 am

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by The Green Barbarian »

BCwrangler wrote:Search "blancolirio" on Youtube....He's great at factual reporting on aircraft incidents and He did a very good one on yesterday's crash


This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

It's already posted in this thread, just a few posts ago.
LET'S GO BRANDON!

Justin Trudeau is a blight on our once great country.
User avatar
OKkayak
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 13727
Joined: May 14th, 2018, 11:10 pm

Re: Snowbirds/Snowbird crash

Post by OKkayak »

BCwrangler wrote:Search "blancolirio" on Youtube....He's great at factual reporting on aircraft incidents and He did a very good one on yesterday's crash

"nepal" posted that video just a few posts above yours, but thanks :up:

Return to “Kamloops”