Hydrogen Stations are happening

[GordonH]

There are a couple in the Vancouver area and now 1 coming to Kelowna. I’ve mentioned few times if I had a choice of zero emission vehicle I would pick hydrogen over EV.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... to-Kelowna
https://www.htec.ca/h2production


added: oh no Tim’s drive-thru is going to shrink, to bad so sad.

[Jlabute]

Slowly and surely. You can refill your hydrogen tank in 5 minutes or less which is something batteries will not accomplish for a long time. There is the Hyundai Nexo, and Toyota Mirai, and a few others you can get right now. Honda has discontinued the Clarity EV for 2020 and is strengthening their hydrogen offerings. Hydrogen is picking up steam for 2020. I believe the Toyota Mirai comes with $15000 free fuel.

Vancouverites with H-cars won't mind driving to Kelowna.

[JagXKR]

So the big deal in the US is for transport trucks. No one is really doing it except for Nikola. Interesting they took the first name and Elon took the last name of the great inventor.
Nikola is going for a hydrogen highway for their upcoming fleet of trucks.
Their stock went public last week at about $34 and today around $79. NKLA Nasdaq. Merged with VectoIQ Acquisition Corp. (VTIQ)

Their idea has already garnered thousands of orders including Anheuser-Busch. Replace their fleet with Nikola trucks.

https://nikolamotor.com/motor

https://nikolamotor.com/hydrogen

Hydrogen is the real future.

[OKkayak]

Already got a personalized license reserved for my first hydrogen car:

HNDNBRG

[GordonH]

Okay this has me even more interested then I was already.
https://nikolamotor.com/badger

[JagXKR]

The Badger is awesome. Sure beats that abomination that Elon is trying to sell.

[rob_c]

jshdxnih3fbc7c8

[TylerM4]

I have always liked the idea of hydrogen powered vehicles over electric.....alot greener?

It's essentially electric.

Hydrogen is converted to electricity to power the vehicle - water is the waste product.
Electricity is utilized to convert water to hydrogen to fill the vehicle.

The real advantage to a hydrogen vehicle is it's filling time. It's also a disadvantage depending on your situation. Many people enjoy the ability to plug their vehicle at their home vs having to make a trip to a charging station. Can't do that with hydrogen.

Long trips = hydrogen is better. Hence the focus on trucking.
Short trips = electric is better

I'd also love to see some cost analysis. Does hydrogen cost more vs electric to fill? How about initial purchase cost?

[Jlabute]

I have always liked the idea of hydrogen powered vehicles over electric.....alot greener?

It depends on where your energy comes from and how your energy is stored. If the electricity used to create hydrogen or charge your EV is from biomass, or coal, or something considered un-green, then it is un-green. The energy storage for EVs are lithium batteries which require a ton of processing and energy. This is also very un-green. Electrolysis for making hydrogen is not common. The cheapest, fastest, and most practical process for making hydrogen fuel is a process called 'natural gas reforming' and it will be the most common method until better electrolysis methods are discovered. Natural Gas Reforming produces 95% of the worlds H2 fuel right now and as the name alludes, uses natural gas.

I would guess based on the energy that goes in to manufacturing batteries, the fuel cell vehicles may be cleaner. Over time, EV batteries need replacement, and fuel cells need replacement. I recall reading somewhere that unlike a gas tank, or H2 tank, the energy required to make a large battery pack is equivalent to many years of driving. So I would probably say H2 is cleaner end-to-end and we haven't talked about recycling lithium batteries yet.

Now saying that, we also need 10's of billions of liters of oil to make tires, and lubricate moving parts. The amount of energy required to make a complete vehicle in the first place may not make it worthwhile buying a new EV. Of course that is common to all vehicles.

In term of safety, hydrogen as a fuel is better than gasoline or lithium batteries. Hydrogen doesn't pool around the ground and if there ever are flames, they shoot upward saving most of the vehicle from damage. Gas and lithium typically leave the vehicles totally destroyed.

[Omnitheo]

Skip the skit and start at 1:55.

Video explains the efficiency difference between Electric, Hydrogen, and ICE.

Hydrogen is much less efficient than Electric, but still much more than ICE. And as it maintains the familiar behaviour of quickly refueling a vehicle as needed (as opposed to prolonged charging) may in many ways make it easier for people to transition to.

[Jlabute]

It is true, the nature of a hydrogen vehicle is less efficient, seeing you have to transport fuel and such. Hydrogen may lend itself to powering industrial vehicles more than consumer vehicles, who knows. There are disadvantages and advantages to both and it will be interesting to see what the market finally accepts. Maybe both.

The nice thing about fast refueling stations is 100% of the population can do it. EVs can use a home charging station but that option is in reach of maybe 20% of the population. As time goes on, the price of H2 will drop, while the cost per kWh will rise. These 'rides' may end up at equivalent costs to drive in the future. Either way, replacing a fuel cell or battery pack will be expensive. One thing the video does not cover, is the amount of energy required to make the storage system... thousands of A sized batteries and mining/refining lithium and various rare metals and dangerous chemicals and eventual recycling, or making a tank to hold hydrogen. There are some serious disadvantages to lithium at this time. Fuel cells are much simpler and their potential will be making some extraordinary leaps in the next 5 years due to materials research.

California plans to have 200 hydrogen stations by 2025, and 1000 by 2030. The demand is growing.


Here is a new fuel cell vehicle coming out, the Nikola Badger pickup. Get your orders in.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nikola-badger/nikola-in-talks-with-automakers-for-badger-pickup-truck-production-founder-idUSKBN23H39S

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-12/china-s-father-of-electric-cars-thinks-hydrogen-is-the-future


https://www.power-technology.com/comment/standing-at-the-precipice-of-the-hydrogen-economy/

[TylerM4]

The nice thing about fast refueling stations is 100% of the population can do it. EVs can use a home charging station but that option is in reach of maybe 20% of the population.

I'm curious about this. Why is it only within reach of 20% of the population? One would think that if you can afford $40K+ for an EV you could afford $2-3k to run a 240V circuit and buy the charger.

[rob_c]

I have always liked the idea of hydrogen powered vehicles over electric.....alot greener?

It's essentially electric.

Hydrogen is converted to electricity to power the vehicle - water is the waste product.
Electricity is utilized to convert water to hydrogen to fill the vehicle.

The real advantage to a hydrogen vehicle is it's filling time. It's also a disadvantage depending on your situation. Many people enjoy the ability to plug their vehicle at their home vs having to make a trip to a charging station. Can't do that with hydrogen.

Long trips = hydrogen is better. Hence the focus on trucking.
Short trips = electric is better

I'd also love to see some cost analysis. Does hydrogen cost more vs electric to fill? How about initial purchase cost?

Good points....thank you.I also wonder about the recycling of batteries hydrogen versus electric.I always seem to forget that 1 particular type is not the complete solution ......

[Jlabute]

The nice thing about fast refueling stations is 100% of the population can do it. EVs can use a home charging station but that option is in reach of maybe 20% of the population.

I'm curious about this. Why is it only within reach of 20% of the population? One would think that if you can afford $40K+ for an EV you could afford $2-3k to run a 240V circuit and buy the charger.

The percentage of home owners is just a portion of the total population. Assuming 'EVERYONE' has an EV in the future rather than EVERYONE owning a fuel cell vehicle, there will be a limited number of 240V circuits. Some homes have 2 or 3 vehicles, apartments and condos may not have the option, renters might be out in the cold. One doesn't want to flood inner cities with vehicles that need recharging. I think inconvenience will rise with the percentage of EV owners. People are already fighting for charging stations. 20% is a rough guess.

[TylerM4]

The percentage of home owners is just a portion of the total population. Assuming 'EVERYONE' has an EV in the future rather than EVERYONE owning a fuel cell vehicle, there will be a limited number of 240V circuits. Some homes have 2 or 3 vehicles, apartments and condos may not have the option, renters might be out in the cold. One doesn't want to flood inner cities with vehicles that need recharging. I think inconvenience will rise with the percentage of EV owners. People are already fighting for charging stations. 20% is a rough guess.

This still makes little sense to me. My point was that circuits can be added to meet demand. A homeowner can pay to add a circuit, just like they do for a hot-tub. If they have a need for 3 circuits - they can install although I think that'd be pretty rare. Yes, apartments/rental locations can be a challenge but already these areas are evolving. New buildings are being built with EV's in mind, Strata's are adopting processes so that members can pay for the cost of adding a circuit to their existing parking area, etc.

I think the inverse of your number is more accurate. 80% can do it now, 20% would face challenges.