Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

[Podonk]

I am absolutely sick of seeing how much money our government just hands out for welfare, disability, and now this covid relief garbage. I have yet to meet someone on welfare or covid relief who actually needs it and isnt just too lazy or proud to work at a gas station or mcdonalds. And yet to meet someone on disability who was actually so disabled they couldnt work at all.

Us hard working folk should all stand up together in the millions and tell our government enough is enough or we will just keep getting raped.

Removed

How is it we continue to hand thousands of dollars to people to just be alcoholics and addicts. But when someone who is trying to better themselves and their country by getting educated and getting a good job they call it a loan, and charge interest, and just take money from your bank account whether you can afford it or not. I for one am embarrassed to be Canadian right now, something I never thought I would hear anyone say let alone myself.

[Gilchy]

There's that compassionate conservatism!

You heard it here folks, based on highly scientific and objective research, no one on welfare, CERB or disability actually needs the money or support, they are all just lazy. Glad we've cleared that up!

[Podonk]

There's that compassionate conservatism!

You heard it here folks, based on highly scientific and objective research, no one on welfare, CERB or disability actually needs the money or support, they are all just lazy. Glad we've cleared that up!

And the first one admits to collecting without needing.

[Gilchy]

Yup, that's the takeaway from my post.

[Boosted632]

There's that compassionate conservatism!

You heard it here folks, based on highly scientific and objective research, no one on welfare, CERB or disability actually needs the money or support, they are all just lazy. Glad we've cleared that up!

Well unfortunately its the truth for about 80%of the people collecting on the back of the tax payer, laziness is not a disability by the way.

[Gilchy]

And of course you have the stats to show that 80% of assistance recipients are simply lazy.

[TylerM4]

I'm sure there is abuse. I also think there are many collecting that need the help.

I've been working full time at various jobs/companies for 25+ years now. Never once collected EI, much less welfare or disability. At times that ment taking min wage jobs I hated until I could find something better.

I share your concern when reading about people who've been collecting for years. I strongly suspect most of whom are not seriously trying to get a job and/or not willing to take a menial min-wage job.

If given the opportunity I'd totally reform welfare. There'd still be a taxpayer funded system, but with time limits and protection for children, elderly, and those truly not able to work. I'm all for helping those in need and in times of transition - but when that turns into a lifetime of suckling at taxpayer's *bleep* instead of working I'd cut those folks off and they can die of starvation if that's their choice vs working.

I've had the opportunity to get to know 3 separate families over the years who've been receiving such benefits for more than 12 months. All 3 I felt were taking advantage of the system/taxpayers vs legitimately needing that help. I'm sure there are many out there who aren't milking the system tho.

[cyruslosco66]

I'm sure there is abuse. I also think there are many collecting that need the help.

I've been working full time at various jobs/companies for 25+ years now. Never once collected EI, much less welfare or disability. At times that ment taking min wage jobs I hated until I could find something better.

I share your concern when reading about people who've been collecting for years. I strongly suspect most of whom are not seriously trying to get a job and/or not willing to take a menial min-wage job.

If given the opportunity I'd totally reform welfare. There'd still be a taxpayer funded system, but with time limits and protection for children, elderly, and those truly not able to work. I'm all for helping those in need and in times of transition - but when that turns into a lifetime of suckling at taxpayer's *bleep* instead of working I'd cut those folks off and they can die of starvation if that's their choice vs working.

I've had the opportunity to get to know 3 separate families over the years who've been receiving such benefits for more than 12 months. All 3 I felt were taking advantage of the system/taxpayers vs legitimately needing that help. I'm sure there are many out there who aren't milking the system tho.

why stop there ? ppl that drink and smoke or eat wrong foods all cost way to much for society . they should all be cut off from healthcare and made to pay ten times more for everything .

[Boosted632]

And of course you have the stats to show that 80% of assistance recipients are simply lazy.

Seriously you need stats how about opening your eyes and looking around.

[Omnitheo]

Several years ago, I worked at fast food restaurants making minimum wage. I worked there for years thinking I could get promotions and work my way up, only to be led along on a string. Unfortunately it wasn't a lot of job experience though for a resume. I worked a few other places trying to gain more experience, however I was hit by layoff after layoff, and having short stints of a few months didn't present well either. Coming out of foster care with very little to my name, and only minimum wage jobs that I worked overtime at just to afford rent (to the detriment of school), and no real family support meant I was pretty much out of options. What was I to do? Live on the street? Well others I had known from group homes and foster care certainly ended up that way.

I went on welfare. And it wasn't easy either. I had to prove I was submitting job applications, show all my spending history, prove I wasn't making money. I had to attend courses on job training, all to receive the barest minimum to afford rent, a bus pass, and the cheapest foods I could find. I probably took a few thousand dollars from taxpayers over the few months or so I was on welfare. And then the program helped me identify strengths and find workplaces in town I did not know about. Someone even helped drive me around to drop off resumes at these places. Finally thanks to welfare, I was able to find a job, which set me on my current career path. I went from minimum wage, to welfare, to "living wage" to middle class. I pay more in taxes each month due to my income than I ever received off of welfare in total.

Honestly the people who complain the most about welfare never have the slightest clue what they are talking about, and the assumptions they make about people on it just further shows their ignorance.

[TylerM4]

why stop there ? ppl that drink and smoke or eat wrong foods all cost way to much for society . they should all be cut off from healthcare and made to pay ten times more for everything .

Well 3 reasons really:
1) That's transitioning straight from direct costs to taxpayers to indirect costs. Much harder to manage something like that.
2) We already do this. Taxes on cigs, cannabis, and alcohol are extraordinarily high, much of the reason is to offset the cost of healthcare. I'd support the same for unhealthy foods assuming it's applied in a reasonable manner. Unfortunately, you can't tax lazyness.
3) The idea that alcoholics, obese people, or smokers cost taxpayers more money is a common fallacy. They don't in the long term. Did you know that 90% of healthcare dollars spent on you will be spent during the last 10 years of your life? These people die sooner saving taxpayers the cost of caring for them when they are elderly.

Sorry, I know you thought you were throwing down a trump card there.

[TylerM4]

Several years ago, I worked at fast food restaurants making minimum wage. I worked there for years thinking I could get promotions and work my way up, only to be led along on a string. Unfortunately it wasn't a lot of job experience though for a resume. I worked a few other places trying to gain more experience, however I was hit by layoff after layoff, and having short stints of a few months didn't present well either. Coming out of foster care with very little to my name, and only minimum wage jobs that I worked overtime at just to afford rent (to the detriment of school), and no real family support meant I was pretty much out of options. What was I to do? Live on the street? Well others I had known from group homes and foster care certainly ended up that way.

I went on welfare. And it wasn't easy either. I had to prove I was submitting job applications, show all my spending history, prove I wasn't making money. I had to attend courses on job training, all to receive the barest minimum to afford rent, a bus pass, and the cheapest foods I could find. I probably took a few thousand dollars from taxpayers over the few months or so I was on welfare. And then the program helped me identify strengths and find workplaces in town I did not know about. Someone even helped drive me around to drop off resumes at these places. Finally thanks to welfare, I was able to find a job, which set me on my current career path. I went from minimum wage, to welfare, to "living wage" to middle class. I pay more in taxes each month due to my income than I ever received off of welfare in total.

Honestly the people who complain the most about welfare never have the slightest clue what they are talking about, and the assumptions they make about people on it just further shows their ignorance.

Thanks for sharing and I'm really glad the system helped you get on your feet.

I'm not sure I speak for the OP, but from my perspective you and people who went through times like you did aren't the problem. I don't believe everyone who goes on welfare is a lazy bum. But I do think that the majority of people who spend years on welfare are.

[JayByrd]

Seriously you need stats how about opening your eyes and looking around.

What does someone who's collecting Disability, say, due to crippling PTSD look like? Is there a way to tell them apart from slackers who just don't want to work and have a doctor's note?

Maybe this isn't as cut-and-dried as some of us think.

[Ka-El]

Honestly the people who complain the most about welfare never have the slightest clue what they are talking about, and the assumptions they make about people on it just further shows their ignorance.

Very few people would actually choose to live on $600 a month, and those who remain chronic welfare recipients normally have multiple barriers to employment. Twenty years ago, while working as a non-government contractor we were delivering life skills and work preparation programs to people who were chronically unemployed due to homelessness, mental health and addiction issue and lack of education with the goal of moving them from welfare dependence to independence.

We followed the progress of these participants from program completion to up to five years afterward (until the program was defunded by a government with that “conservative mindset” you’ve referenced) and found that when given the opportunity and support the majority (over 70%) were still working and contributing to society, paying tax instead of drawing on social funding. This, of course, did not include other harder to measure markers such as reduction in crime or public health costs.

For five years we put 80 people through a life skills and employment preparation training program, eight overlapping eight-week groups with ten in each group. Our average success rate (measured by moving a person off dependence) was 80% at program completion and, as stated, around 70% after five, four, three and two years. We had a program delivery cost of around $120,000, but our efforts saved taxpayers $340,800 that first year (80X600X12X.8-120,000), $744,000 (80X600X12X.7+340800) the second year, $1,084,800 the third year, $1,425,600 the fourth year – and again, these numbers don’t account for possible decreases in crime, public health costs or increased tax revenue.

When we brought in a government that presumed there was massive abuse and all these people needed was to be kicked off of welfare to be “motivated” to find work, not only was it found to be completely unproductive as a strategy to motivate marginalized people to find work, it was also confirmed that the number of people abusing the system was somewhere around 0.05%. This is logically consistent with the idea very few people would actually choose to live at that income level.

[cyruslosco66]

Well 3 reasons really:
1) That's transitioning straight from direct costs to taxpayers to indirect costs. Much harder to manage something like that.
2) We already do this. Taxes on cigs, cannabis, and alcohol are extraordinarily high, much of the reason is to offset the cost of healthcare. I'd support the same for unhealthy foods assuming it's applied in a reasonable manner. Unfortunately, you can't tax lazyness.
3) The idea that alcoholics, obese people, or smokers cost taxpayers more money is a common fallacy. They don't in the long term. Did you know that 90% of healthcare dollars spent on you will be spent during the last 10 years of your life? These people die sooner saving taxpayers the cost of caring for them when they are elderly.

Sorry, I know you thought you were throwing down a trump card there.

asking ppl questions is how ppl learn from one another . it has nothing to do with trump cards .

my point was its a bad road to go down . if we got back to helping out fellow citizens instead of building walls this would be a better life for everyone