Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

[whatwhat]

What does someone who's collecting Disability, say, due to crippling PTSD look like? Is there a way to tell them apart from slackers who just don't want to work and have a doctor's note?

Maybe this isn't as cut-and-dried as some of us think.

Some people are so blind to invisible disabilities, its disappointing in this day and age.

I don't know how many people I have worked with who have had a significant and sudden decline in their mental health by working a part time "menial" part time job. Just because something would be easy for you or I, doesn't mean that it is easy for someone with a mental health illness, or a physical injury.

[lifegives]

* tax evasion data: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taxes/ ... -1.2960595

[Sparki55]

cheating.png

* tax evasion data: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taxes/ ... -1.2960595

You think people who don't pay their fair share of taxes cost taxpayers more than people who are literally paid by taxpayers

[lesliepaul]

I have a huge problem with one segment of Canada's population that gets fed BILLIONS every year, month, day, hour, minute, second and never have to be accountable for squandering it...........START THERE!

...........and yet you have a problem with people with disabilities.........REALLY?

[Omnitheo]

cheating.png

* tax evasion data: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taxes/ ... -1.2960595

You think people who don't pay their fair share of taxes cost taxpayers more than people who are literally paid by taxpayers

Yes. 100% of money to welfare recipients goes back into the economy. Meanwhile the 1% profit off of the country and then hide much of that away overseas.

[Ka-El]

100% of money to welfare recipients goes back into the economy.

This is true, and one of the stronger arguments for having a UBI. We know that when the disposable income of low- and middle-class people increases so does their spending – and consumer spending is a primary driver of the economy. The uber wealthy tend to invest and protect any additional monies and this does not necessarily result in immediate new jobs or new spending. Collectively we are all far better off to have more people receiving a living wage (this also puts those people in a much better position to improve their position) and investments in welfare, when adequate and directed, have provided us with positive returns moving more people from positions of dependence to positions of participation and contribution.

[rustled]

100% of money to welfare recipients goes back into the economy.

This is not entirely accurate today:
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/gove ... mits-table
That's not a lot of money for people on welfare to invest, but for a PWD who makes the maximum contribution (thereby receiving the additional grants from the government), the RDSP amount really adds up. To clarify, I do not object to people on welfare or PWD having savings. The frugal among them can do quite well in hedging themselves against hard times, and that's a good thing IMO - much better than the days when they were discouraged from earning anything, and encouraged to spend everything immediately - just pointing out it's inaccurate to assume all recipients of welfare (or disability assistance) are putting all the money the government gives them back into the economy.

Meanwhile the 1% profit off of the country and then hide much of that away overseas.

Presuming the wealthy invest most of their money overseas may be inaccurate as well. It's likely they spend much of it in Canada, perhaps investing in jobs for the rest of us.

I don't think it's sensible for us to speak in absolutes. Many of us know people who do abuse the system, many of us also know people who do their best to be productive regardless of their disabilities. It is frustrating to us to see those who abuse the system causing problems for those who are doing their best, and it's perhaps even more frustrating when we see people with the best of intentions suggesting the government isn't doing enough when we know people who are doing very well with the existing supports - simply because they are more willing to take some personal responsibility for their own situations and futures than those who claim they can't manage with the existing supports. We don't want to see these existing supports jeopardized by system overload - our greatest concern is that over-expansion of programs will result in worse outcomes.

[rustled]

This is true, and one of the stronger arguments for having a UBI. We know that when the disposable income of low- and middle-class people increases so does their spending – and consumer spending is a primary driver of the economy. The uber wealthy tend to invest and protect any additional monies and this does not necessarily result in immediate new jobs or new spending. Collectively we are all far better off to have more people receiving a living wage (this also puts those people in a much better position to improve their position) and investments in welfare, when adequate and directed, have provided us with positive returns moving more people from positions of dependence to positions of participation and contribution.

And there is no way that someone living on 1200/mo-ish can participate in the economy. All money would be going to hand to mouth survival.

This is simply not true, though - I know from family experience. While I would never say there's no room for improvement, with a reasonable amount of personal responsibility it is entirely possible to do better than merely subsist with the current system.

Is it true that there are no case workers that assist pwd or soc assistance people navigating programs anymore? Or are people assigned a caseworker? I'm wondering because a lot of people wouldn't have the money for the $2000 tech set up for computers, printers, stable housing to plug that setup in the wall. Who helps them navigate the 'system' if anyone ?

If you mean at the ministry office, there was a time when people in the system had specific caseworkers, but today they see whoever is available. There are pros and cons to this - you don't have to wait for your worker to be available, but you end up explaining your situation to another worker.

Speaking from our experience, there are other support workers and caseworkers involved for PWD, some of whom are assigned individually. The toughest part of the process - in our experience with PWD - was the designation itself. With the designation, very good community supports funded by the government became available immediately.

When a PWD (cognitive impairment) can become a productive contributing member of society within the existing system, it's difficult for me to believe it's less possible for those without disabilities to do the same.

[GordonH]

BC disability payments are shamefully low, impo no one can be independent on the amount given. Many with disabilities are just unable to work, don’t get me wrong many can and do a great job.

[rustled]

BC disability payments are shamefully low, impo no one can be independent on the amount given. Many with disabilities are just unable to work, don’t get me wrong many can and do a great job.

My sibling (I call her Jane here) was able to live quite decently on the amount given - bear in mind that the income amount is not the only amount the governments provide. Eventually, Jane found appropriate work with an understanding employer and is remarkably independent. While I agree not every disabled person can do what Jane does, she was doing alright without the employment. She prefers to be employed and contribute, and over the past decade or so the BC government has removed the impediments to that.

[GordonH]

BC disability payments are shamefully low, impo no one can be independent on the amount given. Many with disabilities are just unable to work, don’t get me wrong many can and do a great job.

My sibling (I call her Jane here) was able to live quite decently on the amount given - bear in mind that the income amount is not the only amount the governments provide. Eventually, Jane found appropriate work with an understanding employer and is remarkably independent. While I agree not every disabled person can do what Jane does, she was doing alright without the employment. She prefers to be employed and contribute, and over the past decade or so the BC government has removed the impediments to that.

BC disability for single person is still under $1,200 a month, rent in Kelowna for 1 bedroom is more then that.

[rustled]

BC disability payments are shamefully low, impo no one can be independent on the amount given. Many with disabilities are just unable to work, don’t get me wrong many can and do a great job.

My sibling (I call her Jane here) was able to live quite decently on the amount given - bear in mind that the income amount is not the only amount the governments provide. Eventually, Jane found appropriate work with an understanding employer and is remarkably independent. While I agree not every disabled person can do what Jane does, she was doing alright without the employment. She prefers to be employed and contribute, and over the past decade or so the BC government has removed the impediments to that.

BC disability for single person is still under $1,200 a month, rent in Kelowna for 1 bedroom is more then that.

We're in Penticton, where that's the going rate for many apartments but not all. BC Housing helps Jane with her rent, just as the SAFER program helps my elderly parent.

As a PWD Jane was eligible for ministry help in finding suitable housing, and since then she has been eligible for help paying for it. (Once her income from employer was part of the calculation, her rent assistance was reduced but not eliminated. This is regularly checked and adjusted in both directions as needed.)

[GordonH]

^^^ Welcome news to know, unfortunately many on disability don’t have resources to know were to look for this help.
impo more advocates could really be needed to help with finding all resources available to those with a disability.

[AlienSoldier]

Biggest recipents for subsidies in the states : people who work for Walmart
Richest Families : Waltons (owners of Walmart)

As a person who owns multiple businesses and does everything he can to reduce his taxes I can attest that i pay less taxes than most people who make less than me. An example of this is Gilden Wear who makes hundreds of millions in profits, but got a tax return. Funny how the system works eh? lol

Also, hardwork does not equal money made. That is the biggest lie of capitalism, some luck a bit of money to begin with, support and wits are required.

I didnt come from a rich family, but got somewhat lucky and had some brains to make it to where I am. I have no problem in helping people and paying a bit more so that my fellow canadians can be a bit more comfortable and have a chance at moving up the wealth ladder. If you want to see countries with poor safety nets, look at India, China, some Carribbean and Latin countries. That is not the world I want to live in.

[Omnitheo]

One thing I forgot to mention in my story about the realities of minimum wage and welfare payments. When I spoke about "affording rent". The house I lived in was a 2.5 bedroom place. (.5 because one was a small den room with the laundry machine). We had 4 people living in this house and I slept on a couch.

This is the reality of rent/housing prices in BC compared with minimum wage. At the time many people on the forums would say things like "move out of kelowna then". But seeing my story, what money and resources do you believe I had to move out of kelowna? With the instability of income, would you have suggested taking loans and going further into debt without any guarantee to pay things off?