Old growth logging

Social, economic and environmental issues in our ever-changing world.
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oldtrucker
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Re: Old growth logging

Post by oldtrucker »

seewood wrote: May 27th, 2021, 4:30 pm never to be touched, unless the first nations want to log it eventually like Isaak forest products have in Clayoquot Sound.
In other words...It will be destroyed, if there is money to be made on it.
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seewood
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Re: Old growth logging

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oldtrucker wrote: May 27th, 2021, 4:41 pm In other words...It will be destroyed, if there is money to be made on it.
What is "it" ? if you mean the majority of standing timber in Fairy Creek, doubt it very much.

Without a doubt, original, untouched forest is a wonderful experience. A hike up to Black Tusk, Garibaldi Lake is such a hike.
A hike, after crossing Squamish River, up to Tantalus area is again a toodle up steep unlogged ground.

Bella Coola, if you like dodging Grizzly bears and devils club you could make lumber from, is rather nice. Wear a bug suit there.

Back end of Khutzeymateen inlet has huge Sitka Spruce trees, some 12 foot in diameter. Again, going to have to get along with the grizzlies, highest concentration of those bears in North America, and decent river fishing.

What I'm saying is there is plenty of "old growth" out there that is protected. Yes, even on Vancouver Island. many do not have the where-a-with-all to go driving around active logging roads to have a walk about in some old growth. Take a walk around Lighthouse Park. Even a walk up the trails on the front of Grouse mountain have large trees(24-36" dbh), although 2nd growth.
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liisgo
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Re: Old growth logging

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Pacheedaht First Nation struck a revenue-sharing deal with the province in 2017, regarding Teal and this logging issue.
Now we have opposing sides with in the said Native bands. Will be interesting which side win's between the same people's.
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Re: Old growth logging

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seewood wrote: May 27th, 2021, 4:30 pm
gertlush wrote: May 27th, 2021, 3:32 pm Rightly or wrongly i think Teal is going to lose this one, terrible optics for them.
I don't think so. Currently teal is trying to build road into an area approved by the local first nations with the band being involved in a joint venture with Teal where some of the logs harvested feed the local bands custom cut sawmill providing jobs for the band members.
The area slated for logging over the next few years is just a fraction of the whole area that has been put aside, never to be touched, unless the first nations want to log it eventually like Isaak forest products have in Clayoquot Sound.
I dunno... you got the wrinklies out there marching now too. Lots of high profile media... how many votes does Teal Jones have? Horgan will fold... theyll call a halt for consultations or something. Buy off the 1st nations with some cash and Teal can pound sand. We can have a gentlemans bet :D
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bb49
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Re: Old growth logging

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ckil wrote: May 27th, 2021, 11:39 am Stop the demand for the trees by building small houses. There is no need for any houses over 1500 sq/ft depending on the family size. I find it funny and contradictory when you hear tree hugging retirees complain about cutting trees when they live in 2500 sq/ft homes. Kelowna is a great example.
1500 sq ft. Hmm, why not 1400, or 1300? How about 1000 sq ft? And is that total square footage or per floor.
Looking back at my houses, 1050, 1600 and now 1350 sq ft. So is that acceptable? Do I get a Like?

And this, ....tree hugging retirees... [icon_lol2.gif]
Is it okay for millenials to have a 2500 sq ft home?

You would make a great NPDer, restricting house sizes by age of the owner.
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kgcayenne
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Re: Old growth logging

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Habitat disruption of the magnitude proposed is most certainly NOT forest ‘management’, it is profit procurement. It is deleterious to many species and our watersheds and weather patterns. A fallen mature tree creates habitat and growth media for many animals and organisms. Logging, however, does not.
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seewood
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Re: Old growth logging

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kgcayenne wrote: May 27th, 2021, 11:08 pm Habitat disruption of the magnitude proposed is most certainly NOT forest ‘management’, it is profit procurement.
Wood is a commodity, much like copper from open pit mines or rare earths for all things electrical (mined). How about ski hills where trees are harvested but never again replanted? Then the hypocrites want to ski on clear cuts ( usually never previously harvested) but not look at any although the trees in cut blocks DO grow back, much like corn does every year in the Fraser valley after clear cutting the trees off the fields in the first place.

Guess what, there is profit to be made in harvesting trees and then making lumber to build your house(s), much like mining gold and the copper for wires running throughout ones house. In the past, taxes from the timber industry paid for most of our highway system in BC, built hospitals and schools. Today the industry is a fraction of what it once was as is the revenue stream from taxes.
These protests movements are funded by donations and are run no different than any business with management salaries etc. More noise they make, more donations roll in.

On another note, the pic of the oversized spruce was cut many years ago and was picked up from a dry sort on Vancouver Island. going to be transported to port Alberni to be, I suspect, custom cut to various dimensions, maybe even "tone wood" to make guitars.
Every time for the past 20 years or so a company wants to harvest timber on the West coast of the Island or mid coast somewhere, all we hear is this is the last stand of old growth and has to be saved. Stuck record and then much is put aside with stakeholders , including FN's input, blessing and some timber gets harvested. Walbran Valley is an example of that.
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kgcayenne
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Re: Old growth logging

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Profits can also be made from water treatment to address the disruption of the watershed and natural water treatment performed by evapotranspiration, etc. Profits also come via rebuilding and cleaning up after flooding because the watershed and runoff patterns are screwed up. Everything we do has a flip-side cost, and we are paying for it-not the parent corporations who own the logging companies.

I have heard it said that humans are the only species that can be eradicated without causing an environmental domino effect.
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oldtrucker
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Re: Old growth logging

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kgcayenne wrote: May 28th, 2021, 9:56 am I have heard it said that humans are the only species that can be eradicated without causing an environmental domino effect.
Sure. If every human died overnight all would be well....right up to the part when the backup spent fuel storage and reactor cooling pumps run out of diesel.
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DarbyD
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Re: Old growth logging

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kgcayenne wrote: May 27th, 2021, 11:08 pm Habitat disruption of the magnitude proposed is most certainly NOT forest ‘management’, it is profit procurement. It is deleterious to many species and our watersheds and weather patterns. A fallen mature tree creates habitat and growth media for many animals and organisms. Logging, however, does not.
Totally agree. This goes beyond what humans want and corporate greed.
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seewood
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Re: Old growth logging

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kgcayenne wrote: May 27th, 2021, 11:08 pm A fallen mature tree creates habitat and growth media for many animals and organisms. Logging, however, does not.
I disagree, logging does create habitat for many people, and if you want, dog houses, barns, etc. Looking at all the construction going on, I suspect many believe logging and lumber does create habitat.

In an old growth forest there are large over mature trees as well as many , if not more, trees that are considered succession trees.
The idea that the forest is full off 5-7 foot diameter trees is not completely accurate.
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kgcayenne
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Re: Old growth logging

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seewood wrote: May 28th, 2021, 12:43 pm I disagree, logging does create habitat for many people, and if you want, dog houses, barns, etc. Looking at all the construction going on, I suspect many believe logging and lumber does create habitat.
While your observations about human habitat is not inaccurate, we need to work harder at balancing our wants with sustainable use of our resources. Methods that have been used up until and including now are not balanced.
seewood wrote: May 28th, 2021, 12:43 pm In an old growth forest there are large over mature trees as well as many , if not more, trees that are considered succession trees.
The idea that the forest is full off 5-7 foot diameter trees is not completely accurate.
At no time did I suggest your latter statement. I stand by my assertion that forestry as proposed is disruptive to natural deadfall/regeneration cycles that contribute to soil stability and the quality of water in the watersheds. The natural forest does not raze a swath to facilitate access by large equipment, in other words, the natural forest cycle does not contaminate or destroy an entire ecosystem.
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Re: Old growth logging

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kgcayenne wrote: May 28th, 2021, 9:56 am I have heard it said that humans are the only species that can be eradicated without causing an environmental domino effect.
Except that people who are so vocal about the depopulation never lead by example.
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oldtrucker
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Re: Old growth logging

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BC Landlord wrote: May 30th, 2021, 11:52 am
kgcayenne wrote: May 28th, 2021, 9:56 am I have heard it said that humans are the only species that can be eradicated without causing an environmental domino effect.
Except that people who are so vocal about the depopulation never lead by example.
Okay.... my solution to overpopulation,immigration and the environmental destruction it leads to....
-Lose the constant economic growth model in a closed system.
-All high population growth rate countries deemed a threat to global security. No relationship/trade of any kind with high reproduction rate countries and sanctions/total cut off for any country that allows their people to reproduce themselves more than once. ( China had the right idea)
-Do that for 3 generations so population drops to less than 4 billion.
-No culling required, environment saved from overpopulation , and it's fair to all.
-Done.
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Re: Old growth logging

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oldtrucker wrote: May 30th, 2021, 2:18 pm Okay.... my solution to overpopulation,immigration and the environmental destruction it leads to....
-Lose the constant economic growth model in a closed system.
-All high population growth rate countries deemed a threat to global security. No relationship/trade of any kind with high reproduction rate countries and sanctions/total cut off for any country that allows their people to reproduce themselves more than once. ( China had the right idea)
-Do that for 3 generations so population drops to less than 4 billion.
-No culling required, environment saved from overpopulation , and it's fair to all.
-Done.
You see, .. those countries with high population growth are almost exclusively impoverished societies. Traditionally, they have numerous family members to be able to provide for food and other necessities. Often combined with high mortality rates (hardship, diseases, etc), this all calls for a high birth rate.
The only civilized way out of that would be to help them out of poverty, and that can't be accomplished without the economic growth and cheap energy, both of which nowadays leftists and phony environmentalists are opposed to.

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